Honda Car Forum


 

Go Back   Honda Car Forum - Accord Parts Civic Tuning Acura Racing > Discussion > Honda Technical

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 26 Nov 2009, 01:06 am
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4
Exclamation '94 Accord Won't Start

Hey guys!

I've been lurking around the forum for a while and finally decided to get an acct. I've got a problem with it that's hard to pin down, and I'd really appreciate any thoughts and ideas you guys might have! Sorry to be so needy off the bat, I promise I'll make up for it. Any advice is helpful, and I'd be glad to trade for web design advice, or whatever else I can help with in return.

Here's the scoop:

I have a 1994 Honda Accord EX w/F22B1 engine, 5spd. manual. I bought the car in late April of this year w/ about 194k miles on it. Right now it has about 197k. I believe I am the 4th owner. From what I can tell, previous owners have 'upgraded' the following:

- Spectre CAI/RAI
- Header-back exhaust with normal-looking but loud-obnoxious-sounding muffler, no cat (WTF? )
- "performance" clutch
- Sony Xplod head unit, but stock speakers
- Radio antenna disappearded

Otherwise pretty normal-lookin'.

Since I bought it, I've changed the oil to synthetic (Mobil 1, not sure if it's worth it but i figured it's easier on the old engine? ), changed the master brake cylinder along with a caliper (bleed screw sheared off), and replaced some broken wheel bolts in the back. Until lately, the car has started and driven great, and shifted ok. A few times over the summer I'd get the odd check engine light, but never got around to checking it.

About a month ago, the car started acting up. A few times, it would refuse to start after a bit of driving (say, after going to the store). It would crank fine, but refuse to catch. Each time it would eventually start, after giving it about 10 minutes (to cool down?). Then, it got worse. Not only would it not start when warm, but two times it actually died while driving slow in second gear (gas pedal would be unresponsive, and RPM would dip to idle for a few seconds, then choke out). I would pull the car over, give it some time, and it would eventually start. All this time it would still start fine when cold, idle fine (~15-1600RPM cold, ~750RPM warm), and otherwise act normal.

Around this time, a mechanic friend of mine took a look at it, and ended up replacing the main relay before I got it back. It seemed like everything was fixed! Not for long, though. The same problem came back, and got worse. CE light started to come on once in a while. It would only start when ice cold, after not running for a long time. Now it doesn't feel like starting at all...HALP!!*

I've looked online all over the place, trying to figure out probable causes and how to diagnose it. Here's what I've come up with:

- I checked the engine codes and come back with a code 43, indicating a fuel/sensor problem (I only look at the CE light, right? the ABS blinks a few times as well on the check)

- Dash light check before starting the car: seems like pump doesn't hiss, but CE light goes off when it should, all the time. I think it used to hiss when starting before, but I only notice when I listen for it, and I've only started listening for it lately....

- Research of probable causes often points to master relay, but it was just replaced so that seems to rule it out. I can check for continuity and any malfunction if you guys think it can still be an issue, though.

- If not the relay, I'm thinking...fuel pump? Some sort of sensor (O2)? ECM gone funky?

* Today, after it refused to start for anything, I bought some engine start spray and hit up the air intake with some. It started up! Could be a coinkidink, but might support the fuel problem theory?


If you read through all this, you're awesome! Any help and ideas would be very, very much appreciated. I'm on a very limited budget and have few tools; extra bonus points, a freshly-baked cookie, and two tickets to the internets to anyone who helps me fix this MacGuyver style, using household items such as a paperclip and rubberband

THANKS!!!!!!!!

...and happy Thanksgiving

Last edited by ninefour; 26 Nov 2009 at 01:51 am. Reason: F22B1 not B2! Whoops.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 29 Nov 2009, 01:38 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4
Default Re: '94 Accord Won't Start

Hey guys,

Still having this problem so any help would be appreciated!!

Here's where I'm at now:

UPDATE: At this point I've pretty much narrowed it down to fuel. I can hear the pump running when the car runs, but when the car's warmed up and you turn it off and do a CE Light check, the light goes on and off but with no hissing from the pump. Then the car starts and chokes almost instantly, then just cranks after that. Now I have to narrow the problem down more. Most times the car will start after that with some engine starter, meaning (??) it's not getting fuel to start, but once it cranks over ~5 times it catches on the starting fluid and also starts drawing fuel? Any ideas?

I'm gonna do some tests on the master relay (even though it was replaced) and check for power at the pump as well. I read somewhere that vibration from the running car could close a loose contact. The question is, would the car keep running in that situation (with the pump only sometimes working)? Does the running of the engine naturally draw enough fuel in?

Thanks again for the advice
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 13 Feb 2010, 11:15 am
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2
Default Re: '94 Accord Won't Start

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefour View Post
Hey guys,

Still having this problem so any help would be appreciated!!

Here's where I'm at now:

UPDATE: At this point I've pretty much narrowed it down to fuel. I can hear the pump running when the car runs, but when the car's warmed up and you turn it off and do a CE Light check, the light goes on and off but with no hissing from the pump. Then the car starts and chokes almost instantly, then just cranks after that. Now I have to narrow the problem down more. Most times the car will start after that with some engine starter, meaning (??) it's not getting fuel to start, but once it cranks over ~5 times it catches on the starting fluid and also starts drawing fuel? Any ideas?

I'm gonna do some tests on the master relay (even though it was replaced) and check for power at the pump as well. I read somewhere that vibration from the running car could close a loose contact. The question is, would the car keep running in that situation (with the pump only sometimes working)? Does the running of the engine naturally draw enough fuel in?

Thanks again for the advice
Did you figure the problem out? I have an accord 1994 that when I remove the hose that attaches to the fuel injector tree and cranck, don't put out any gas. Where is the relay located for the gas pump?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 13 Feb 2010, 01:16 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4
Default Re: '94 Accord Won't Start

Hello,

First thing I'd recommend if you're not getting fuel at all is to check the fuse for that relay. If I remember correctly it's in the driver's compartment on the left. The main relay itself is located under the dash on the driver's side, a bit to the right, around where the ignition is. It's a gray / black box sitting on a clip. Go on your back with a flashlight and you'll see it.

In my case the problem was caused by a faulty relay that failed when hot. If you suspect a similar issue and the fuse is ok, drop the back seat, lift the trunk floor cover, and with the doors closed turn the ignition to on but not start...as the dash goes on the pump in the back should make a distinctive humming sound...in my case when things wouldn't pump and start, it was because the main relay heated up and one of the solder points disconnected. You can easily remove the cover of the relay and visually inspect it- if one of the connections is visibly cracked, there's your problem! Either re-solder or buy a new one.

If relay looks ok, check the connections to the pump. They should be accessible without removing anything but the trunk floor cover. You can also bring 12 volt power directly to the pump to listen for the hum and verify proper operation.

If everything checks out you can also jump some pins on the relay connector to bring power to the pump and rule out the wiring going to the pump. I think it's green and black but DON'T take my word for it as I'm not around my car or the manual. Haynes manual will have pin diagrams for the connector as well as a more thorough electrical test of the relay.

Hope that helps!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 13 Feb 2010, 01:24 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4
Default Re: '94 Accord Won't Start

Also,

While we're on th subject- my problem was fixed but I still have the question of why 2 relays, one new, failed on me. What would cause the solder joints to fail like that? A bad ground? I worry that I might have fixed the problem, but whatever original stress is on the system may be stressing something else out....
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2010, 10:22 am
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2
Default Re: '94 Accord Won't Start

Great information Ninefour, Thanks.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
please help. 1990 honda accord won't start. relaced thermostat and now it won't start. ? katebailey13 Honda Technical 4 02 Sep 2010 08:04 pm
1998 Honda Accord V6 - turns over wont start/delayed start/starts after several tries? momma_b Honda Technical 3 14 Aug 2009 09:46 am
My Honda accord 2001 car does not start even if I jump start it, what could be the problem? Surie Honda Technical 4 03 Oct 2007 02:24 pm
My Honda accord 2001 car does not start even if I jump start it, what could be the problem? Surie Honda Technical 0 03 Oct 2007 01:40 pm
My Honda accord 2001 car does not start even if I jump start it, what could be the problem? Surie Honda Technical 0 03 Oct 2007 01:40 pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:37 pm.


Attribution:
Honda News | Autoblog
Powered by Yahoo Answers




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
HondaCarForum.com is not affiliated with Honda Motor Company in any way. Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse HondaCarForum.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.