Honda Car Forum

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:16:30 -0400, "Seth"
<seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Bill Gavin" <egavin@scsinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:bfkvc5l6it6rmmof6m08gc9q8ko6cvher5@4ax.com.. .
>>
>> This ones driving me crazy.Checked #11 fuse it is ok.
>> Should I pull the stereo out when the tail lights work and the stereo
>> works when the ignition key is in the aux position.Do stereo installs
>> usually take there power from the tail light circuit.Any more ideas
>> would be welcome.6 HRS wasted alredy
>
>
>Yes, pull the stereo right now and see what it looks like back there.
>
>If it is just an aftermarket stereo and no additional stereo items (amps,
>equalizer, etc...) then I wouldn't be too concerned about tracing back to
>the fuse back or any of that as for a simple head unit swap everything can
>be done with what's in the stereo cavity.
>
>When you pull the stereo, did the person who put it in there use an adapter
>harness or did they just cut the stock wiring to wire in the new radio?
>
>If the cut method, then you have a rats nest to untangle. If they used a
>harness, then your issue may be as simple as some electrical tape and/or a
>wire nut came loose.
>
>Pull the stereo, take inventory of what you see and start from there.

6HRS wasted including internet time.
Took the stereo out today Alpine.Looks like a adapter harness was
installed to the factory plug.Next with the stereo unplugged I tryed
the lights still no luck.Doesnt look like factory plug has been
spliced or touched.Is it possible problem could be in the ignition
switch or the light switch.

Bill Gavin

Bill Gavin <egavin@scsinternet.com> wrote in
news:nqf1d5drt50tilm4e90spvuee0ct9ff0rg@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:16:30 -0400, "Seth"
> <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Bill Gavin" <egavin@scsinternet.com> wrote in message
>>news:bfkvc5l6it6rmmof6m08gc9q8ko6cvher5@4ax.com. ..
>>>
>>> This ones driving me crazy.Checked #11 fuse it is ok.
>>> Should I pull the stereo out when the tail lights work and the
>>> stereo works when the ignition key is in the aux position.Do stereo
>>> installs usually take there power from the tail light circuit.Any
>>> more ideas would be welcome.6 HRS wasted alredy
>>
>>
>>Yes, pull the stereo right now and see what it looks like back there.
>>
>>If it is just an aftermarket stereo and no additional stereo items
>>(amps, equalizer, etc...) then I wouldn't be too concerned about
>>tracing back to the fuse back or any of that as for a simple head unit
>>swap everything can be done with what's in the stereo cavity.
>>
>>When you pull the stereo, did the person who put it in there use an
>>adapter harness or did they just cut the stock wiring to wire in the
>>new radio?
>>
>>If the cut method, then you have a rats nest to untangle. If they
>>used a harness, then your issue may be as simple as some electrical
>>tape and/or a wire nut came loose.
>>
>>Pull the stereo, take inventory of what you see and start from there.
>
> 6HRS wasted including internet time.
> Took the stereo out today Alpine.Looks like a adapter harness was
> installed to the factory plug.Next with the stereo unplugged I tryed
> the lights still no luck.Doesnt look like factory plug has been
> spliced or touched.Is it possible problem could be in the ignition
> switch or the light switch.
>
> Bill Gavin
>


I gave you wire colors and a connector location.

Plus I gave you another clue: Check to see if the side markers and license
plate lights work.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9CA08A5B74963tegger@208.90.168.18...
> Bill Gavin <egavin@scsinternet.com> wrote in
> news:nqf1d5drt50tilm4e90spvuee0ct9ff0rg@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:16:30 -0400, "Seth"
>> <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Bill Gavin" <egavin@scsinternet.com> wrote in message
>>>news:bfkvc5l6it6rmmof6m08gc9q8ko6cvher5@4ax.com ...
>>>>
>>>> This ones driving me crazy.Checked #11 fuse it is ok.
>>>> Should I pull the stereo out when the tail lights work and the
>>>> stereo works when the ignition key is in the aux position.Do stereo
>>>> installs usually take there power from the tail light circuit.Any
>>>> more ideas would be welcome.6 HRS wasted alredy
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, pull the stereo right now and see what it looks like back there.
>>>
>>>If it is just an aftermarket stereo and no additional stereo items
>>>(amps, equalizer, etc...) then I wouldn't be too concerned about
>>>tracing back to the fuse back or any of that as for a simple head unit
>>>swap everything can be done with what's in the stereo cavity.
>>>
>>>When you pull the stereo, did the person who put it in there use an
>>>adapter harness or did they just cut the stock wiring to wire in the
>>>new radio?
>>>
>>>If the cut method, then you have a rats nest to untangle. If they
>>>used a harness, then your issue may be as simple as some electrical
>>>tape and/or a wire nut came loose.
>>>
>>>Pull the stereo, take inventory of what you see and start from there.
>>
>> 6HRS wasted including internet time.
>> Took the stereo out today Alpine.Looks like a adapter harness was
>> installed to the factory plug.Next with the stereo unplugged I tryed
>> the lights still no luck.Doesnt look like factory plug has been
>> spliced or touched.Is it possible problem could be in the ignition
>> switch or the light switch.
>
> I gave you wire colors and a connector location.
>
> Plus I gave you another clue: Check to see if the side markers and license
> plate lights work.


At this point I would bet money it's a bad ground. With the engine off, the
lights are getting their ground through some circuit that is off with the
engine off (question about if this is truly tied to the engine running or
just the run vs. accessory vs. off position of the key switch hasn't been
answered yet).

But I'll bet it's similar to the situation that happens sometimes where a
persons brake lights only work when the headlights are off or the tail
lights work only when the brake pedal isn't pressed.

Bad ground.

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:haqhnu$72n$1@news.eternal-september.org:

> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9CA08A5B74963tegger@208.90.168.18...


<snip>


>>
>> Plus I gave you another clue: Check to see if the side markers and
>> license plate lights work.
>
>
> At this point I would bet money it's a bad ground. With the engine
> off, the lights are getting their ground through some circuit that is
> off with the engine off (question about if this is truly tied to the
> engine running or just the run vs. accessory vs. off position of the
> key switch hasn't been answered yet).
>
> But I'll bet it's similar to the situation that happens sometimes
> where a persons brake lights only work when the headlights are off or
> the tail lights work only when the brake pedal isn't pressed.
>
> Bad ground.
>
>


I considered a bad ground as well, but dismissed that as being unlikely.
The grounds are on the interior of the body shell and are rarely defective.
The one exception is the taillight ground in the hatchback. That one is
sometimes damaged in bad rear-end collisions.

Power to the taillights is switched. Ground is permanent. This is the
opposite of the horn circuit, where the horns are always live and ground is
supplied by the horn contacts in the steering wheel.

In any case, if the OP would check his front marker lights and rear license
plate lights and see if they behave the same as the taillights, that would
give us a clue. The markers and taillights use different grounds, but the
taillights and license plate lights use a common ground.

Actually, the same power source feeds:
radio
taillights
front markers
license plate lights
glove box light
heater control panel lights
clock
cigarette lighter
and many other things. These use many different ground points.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in
news:Xns9CA0ABC6AF1B9tegger@208.90.168.18:


>
>
> I considered a bad ground as well, but dismissed that as being
> unlikely. The grounds are on the interior of the body shell and are
> rarely defective. The one exception is the taillight ground in the
> hatchback. That one is sometimes damaged in bad rear-end collisions.
>
> Power to the taillights is switched. Ground is permanent. This is the
> opposite of the horn circuit, where the horns are always live and
> ground is supplied by the horn contacts in the steering wheel.
>
> In any case, if the OP would check his front marker lights and rear
> license plate lights and see if they behave the same as the
> taillights, that would give us a clue. The markers and taillights use
> different grounds, but the taillights and license plate lights use a
> common ground.
>



I just had another thought: Suppose the aftermarket radio installation
included an amp in the rear of the vehicle. In that case, there would be
tampering of the wiring at that location. Somebody might have even spliced
in an aftermarket power antenna.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9CA0ABC6AF1B9tegger@208.90.168.18...
> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:haqhnu$72n$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9CA08A5B74963tegger@208.90.168.18...
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>>
>>> Plus I gave you another clue: Check to see if the side markers and
>>> license plate lights work.
>>
>>
>> At this point I would bet money it's a bad ground. With the engine
>> off, the lights are getting their ground through some circuit that is
>> off with the engine off (question about if this is truly tied to the
>> engine running or just the run vs. accessory vs. off position of the
>> key switch hasn't been answered yet).
>>
>> But I'll bet it's similar to the situation that happens sometimes
>> where a persons brake lights only work when the headlights are off or
>> the tail lights work only when the brake pedal isn't pressed.
>>
>> Bad ground.
>>
>>
>
>
> I considered a bad ground as well, but dismissed that as being unlikely.
> The grounds are on the interior of the body shell and are rarely
> defective.
> The one exception is the taillight ground in the hatchback. That one is
> sometimes damaged in bad rear-end collisions.
>
> Power to the taillights is switched. Ground is permanent. This is the
> opposite of the horn circuit, where the horns are always live and ground
> is
> supplied by the horn contacts in the steering wheel.
>
> In any case, if the OP would check his front marker lights and rear
> license
> plate lights and see if they behave the same as the taillights, that would
> give us a clue. The markers and taillights use different grounds, but the
> taillights and license plate lights use a common ground.
>
> Actually, the same power source feeds:
> radio
> taillights
> front markers
> license plate lights
> glove box light
> heater control panel lights
> clock
> cigarette lighter
> and many other things. These use many different ground points.


I see your point. But as a former after market installer I have seen this
way too much. Often times (mis) blamed on the stereo. On many of these
cars a few items use a shared ground and if the grounding bolt has worked
itself loose or rusted (this is an almost 20 year old vehicle) it becomes a
"floating" ground that is no longer ground when the 2nd circuit is also
energized.

Could be either... My money is on the ground.

The puOn Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:07:11 -0400, "Seth"
<seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>news:Xns9CA0ABC6AF1B9tegger@208.90.168.18...
>> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:haqhnu$72n$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9CA08A5B74963tegger@208.90.168.18...
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Plus I gave you another clue: Check to see if the side markers and
>>>> license plate lights work.
>>>
>>>
>>> At this point I would bet money it's a bad ground. With the engine
>>> off, the lights are getting their ground through some circuit that is
>>> off with the engine off (question about if this is truly tied to the
>>> engine running or just the run vs. accessory vs. off position of the
>>> key switch hasn't been answered yet).
>>>
>>> But I'll bet it's similar to the situation that happens sometimes
>>> where a persons brake lights only work when the headlights are off or
>>> the tail lights work only when the brake pedal isn't pressed.
>>>
>>> Bad ground.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I considered a bad ground as well, but dismissed that as being unlikely.
>> The grounds are on the interior of the body shell and are rarely
>> defective.
>> The one exception is the taillight ground in the hatchback. That one is
>> sometimes damaged in bad rear-end collisions.
>>
>> Power to the taillights is switched. Ground is permanent. This is the
>> opposite of the horn circuit, where the horns are always live and ground
>> is
>> supplied by the horn contacts in the steering wheel.
>>
>> In any case, if the OP would check his front marker lights and rear
>> license
>> plate lights and see if they behave the same as the taillights, that would
>> give us a clue. The markers and taillights use different grounds, but the
>> taillights and license plate lights use a common ground.
>>
>> Actually, the same power source feeds:
>> radio
>> taillights
>> front markers
>> license plate lights
>> glove box light
>> heater control panel lights
>> clock
>> cigarette lighter
>> and many other things. These use many different ground points.
>
>
>I see your point. But as a former after market installer I have seen this
>way too much. Often times (mis) blamed on the stereo. On many of these
>cars a few items use a shared ground and if the grounding bolt has worked
>itself loose or rusted (this is an almost 20 year old vehicle) it becomes a
>"floating" ground that is no longer ground when the 2nd circuit is also
>energized.
>
>Could be either... My money is on the ground.

Ok some more clues.

1. all lights work with ignition in off position,when key is in aux or
engine running I have no side marker lights,liscence plate light or
tail lights.clock and heater lights work.
2.Lots of rain the last few weeks some condensation in back tail light
lenses.
3.car is a hatchback with no damage.
4. Car is worth the effort 20 years old seen winter twice no rust
197000km.

Bill Gavin

Bill Gavin <egavin@scsinternet.com> wrote in
news:uta2d5d36e0g97d20lo25bmgvn2icse0al@4ax.com:


>
> 1. all lights work with ignition in off position,when key is in aux or
> engine running I have no side marker lights,liscence plate light or
> tail lights.clock and heater lights work.



Then it's very unlikely to be a ground problem. I've got the wiring
diagrams here and these problems have only one point of commonality: the
power feed (red/blk wire); the grounds are in totally different locations.

Just in case, pull the large trim panel off the rear of the hatch interior
to expose that ground bolt for inspection. The other ground is in the
engine compartment right beside the windshield washer filler neck.

I still think there's some botched wiring in the dash or steering column.
Pull the steering wheel and have a look at the wiring there. Follow the
red/blk wire from the steering column switch as far as you can (as I
originally suggested).



> 2.Lots of rain the last few weeks some condensation in back tail light
> lenses.


Taillight gaskets are bad. Check the bulb sockets for severe corrosion.



> 3.car is a hatchback with no damage.
> 4. Car is worth the effort 20 years old seen winter twice no rust
> 197000km.
>

No rust, no collisions, for sure? Then the grounds should be perfect,
provided they've not been altered. Hondas generally do not exhibit ground
problems when the factory setup remains unchanged.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/