Honda Car Forum

"Scott in SoCal" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8grem4dir7mv51e72dahqv4fg2iup5r495@4ax.com...
> In message <gk6hn8$hqq$1@news.motzarella.org>, "P J"
> <pj@pjama.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"Jay Giuliani" <jrgiuliani@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>news:hhx9l.4432$BC4.2979@nwrddc02.gnilink.net. ..
>>> Just suck it up and raise the gas tax.
>>
>>That causes people to drive even less, so it could get into a vicious
>>cycle. Reminds me the nicotin taxes that became such a large part of
>>state revenues. The more they raise it, the less they get out of it.
>
> In Canada they raised the cigarette tax so high at one point that
> people actually <gasp!> cut back on their smoking and revenue started
> to fall off. They promptly lowered the tax.
>
> But our addiction to oil is much, much worse than our addiction to
> nicotine. For most people, it's MUCH easier to cut back on smoking
> than it is to cut back on driving.

Smoking is totally nonessential. SOME driving is essential. However, in my
observation, ONE trip
a week to buy groceries is all that is needed. Fess up, how many of you make
MORE than one driving trip a week
to buy groceries? Clue: one does NOT need fresh lettuce every frigging
day--it WILL keep for a fair while in the fridge.
I buy gas every TWO weeks, groceries every TWO weeks, except for milk which
I buy ONCE a week. Library trips are ONCE a week. No need to rent or buy
DVD's etc..I get them on my WEEKLY library trips..which I often walk to,
BTW.

Commuting for hours is pure bullshit most of the time. Surely, you can MOVE
closer if the job has any permanence at all. I have NO sympathy for those
who commute for HOURS year, after year, after year. Live closer to where you
work, damnit.

On Jan 9, 7:17*pm, "Sharx35" <shar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Scott in SoCal" <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:8grem4dir7mv51e72dahqv4fg2iup5r495@4ax .com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In message <gk6hn8$hq...@news.motzarella.org>, "P J"
> > <p...@pjama.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>"Jay Giuliani" <jrgiuli...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:hhx9l.4432$BC4.2979@nwrddc02.gnilink.net. ..
> >>> Just suck it up and raise the gas tax.
>
> >>That causes people to drive even less, so it could get into a vicious
> >>cycle. Reminds me the nicotin taxes that became such a large part of
> >>state revenues. The more they raise it, the less they get out of it.
>
> > In Canada they raised the cigarette tax so high at one point that
> > people actually <gasp!> cut back on their smoking and revenue started
> > to fall off. They promptly lowered the tax.
>
> > But our addiction to oil is much, much worse than our addiction to
> > nicotine. For most people, it's MUCH easier to cut back on smoking
> > than it is to cut back on driving.
>
> Smoking is totally nonessential. SOME driving is essential. However, in my
> observation, ONE trip
> a week to buy groceries is all that is needed. Fess up, how many of you make
> MORE than one driving trip a week
> to buy groceries? Clue: one does NOT need fresh lettuce every frigging
> day--it WILL keep for a fair while in the fridge.
> I buy gas every TWO weeks, groceries every TWO weeks, except for milk which
> I buy ONCE a week. Library trips are ONCE a week. No need to rent or buy
> DVD's etc..I get them on my WEEKLY library trips..which I often walk to,
> BTW.
>
> Commuting for hours is pure bullshit most of the time. Surely, you can MOVE
> closer if the job has any permanence at all. I have NO sympathy for those
> who commute for HOURS year, after year, after year. Live closer to where you
> work, damnit.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Unintentionally, I have always lived within a mile of the shops, Bing
70 years ld (Japoanese style) I still will often walk a miles to get
to some businesses where there won't be a heavy load to tote.

In article <brU9l.4084$Db2.3440@edtnps83>,
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Fess up, how many of you make
> MORE than one driving trip a week
> to buy groceries? Clue: one does NOT need fresh lettuce every frigging
> day--it WILL keep for a fair while in the fridge.
> I buy gas every TWO weeks, groceries every TWO weeks, except for milk which
> I buy ONCE a week. Library trips are ONCE a week. No need to rent or buy
> DVD's etc..I get them on my WEEKLY library trips..

So you don't have any kids in your house. Big whoop. Put a couple
growing kids in your house and see how your grocery runs get. Every two
weeks? hahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

On Jan 8, 12:16*am, Tim Howard <tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
> Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
> By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press Writer
> * *– Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET
>
> PORTLAND, Ore. – Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring
> ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of
> how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring
> devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as
> Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric
> hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely
> with gasoline taxes.
>
> "I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big that
> we can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland driver
> who participated in a recent pilot program.
>
> The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are concerned
> about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate the financial
> incentive for buying efficient vehicles.
>
> But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even though
> it will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.
>
> Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has
> envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.
>
> The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure
> Financing is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep highways,
> bridges and transit programs in good shape.
>
> But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should
> consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more
> fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.
>
> As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill," said
> Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House Transportation and
> Infrastructure Committee.
>
> The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at some
> much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work with
> manufacturers."
>
> Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his
> budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.
>
> Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would
> require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.
>
> In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a
> quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.
>
> James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in charge
> of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax
> proposals in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.
>
> "There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this," he
> said.
>
> Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty of
> raising gasoline taxes.
>
> The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two dozen
> states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the
> American Road & Transportation Builders Association.
>
> In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS
> transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps, allowing
> drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.
>
> Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland
> area, proved the idea could work.
>
> Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great
> detail, they could determine when a driver had left certain zones, such
> as the state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the driving was
> done, so a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.
>
> The proposal envisions a gradual change, with manufacturers installing
> the technology in new vehicles because retrofitting old cars would be
> too expensive. Owners of older vehicles would continue to pay gasoline
> taxes.
>
> The difference in tax based on mileage or on gasoline would be small —
> "pennies per transaction at the pump," Whitty said.
>
> But the mileage tax still faces several major obstacles.
>
> For one, Oregon accounts for only a small part of auto sales, so the
> state can't go it alone. A multistate or national system would be needed.
>
> Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty said
> he and his task force have assured people that the program does not
> track detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and
> cannot be accessed by law enforcement agencies.
>
> "I think most people will come to realize there is really no tracking
> issue and will continue to buy new cars," Whitty said, noting that many
> cell phones now come equipped with GPS, which has not deterred customers.
>
> Others are worried that a mileage tax would undermine years of
> incentives to switch toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.
>
> "It doesn't seem fair," said Paul Niedergang of Portland, that a hybrid
> would be taxed as much as his Dodge pickup. "I just think the gas tax
> needs to be updated."
>
> Lynda Williams, also of Portland, was not immediately sold on the idea
> but said it was worth consideration.
>
> "We all have to be open-minded," she said. "Our current system just
> isn't working."

I don't understand the subject line. I don't see fuel efficiency being
taxed. Just people being held to pay for the resources (road repair
and building) that they use.

Jeff

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-837188.05013510012009@mara100-84.onlink.net...
> In article <brU9l.4084$Db2.3440@edtnps83>,
> "Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fess up, how many of you make
>> MORE than one driving trip a week
>> to buy groceries? Clue: one does NOT need fresh lettuce every frigging
>> day--it WILL keep for a fair while in the fridge.
>> I buy gas every TWO weeks, groceries every TWO weeks, except for milk
>> which
>> I buy ONCE a week. Library trips are ONCE a week. No need to rent or buy
>> DVD's etc..I get them on my WEEKLY library trips..
>
> So you don't have any kids in your house. Big whoop. Put a couple
> growing kids in your house and see how your grocery runs get. Every two
> weeks? hahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Typical ****ing LIEbrawl DEMONrats--their KIDS rule the house.

The question you should be asking is why are they not taxing mass transit
users, to help pay for the resources (road repair and building) that they
use, instead of take money from those that are currently paying for the
resources (road repair and building) that they use?


"Jeff" <jeff.utz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f7855fb8-a079-42c1-b826-5b7359c14b4f@p29g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 8, 12:16 am, Tim Howard <tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
> Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
> By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press Writer
> – Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET
>
> PORTLAND, Ore. – Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring
> ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of
> how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring
> devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as
> Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric
> hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely
> with gasoline taxes.
>
> "I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big that
> we can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland driver
> who participated in a recent pilot program.
>
> The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are concerned
> about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate the financial
> incentive for buying efficient vehicles.
>
> But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even though
> it will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.
>
> Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has
> envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.
>
> The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure
> Financing is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep highways,
> bridges and transit programs in good shape.
>
> But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should
> consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more
> fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.
>
> As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill," said
> Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House Transportation and
> Infrastructure Committee.
>
> The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at some
> much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work with
> manufacturers."
>
> Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his
> budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.
>
> Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would
> require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.
>
> In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a
> quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.
>
> James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in charge
> of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax
> proposals in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.
>
> "There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this," he
> said.
>
> Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty of
> raising gasoline taxes.
>
> The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two dozen
> states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the
> American Road & Transportation Builders Association.
>
> In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS
> transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps, allowing
> drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.
>
> Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland
> area, proved the idea could work.
>
> Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great
> detail, they could determine when a driver had left certain zones, such
> as the state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the driving was
> done, so a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.
>
> The proposal envisions a gradual change, with manufacturers installing
> the technology in new vehicles because retrofitting old cars would be
> too expensive. Owners of older vehicles would continue to pay gasoline
> taxes.
>
> The difference in tax based on mileage or on gasoline would be small —
> "pennies per transaction at the pump," Whitty said.
>
> But the mileage tax still faces several major obstacles.
>
> For one, Oregon accounts for only a small part of auto sales, so the
> state can't go it alone. A multistate or national system would be needed.
>
> Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty said
> he and his task force have assured people that the program does not
> track detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and
> cannot be accessed by law enforcement agencies.
>
> "I think most people will come to realize there is really no tracking
> issue and will continue to buy new cars," Whitty said, noting that many
> cell phones now come equipped with GPS, which has not deterred customers.
>
> Others are worried that a mileage tax would undermine years of
> incentives to switch toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.
>
> "It doesn't seem fair," said Paul Niedergang of Portland, that a hybrid
> would be taxed as much as his Dodge pickup. "I just think the gas tax
> needs to be updated."
>
> Lynda Williams, also of Portland, was not immediately sold on the idea
> but said it was worth consideration.
>
> "We all have to be open-minded," she said. "Our current system just
> isn't working."

I don't understand the subject line. I don't see fuel efficiency being
taxed. Just people being held to pay for the resources (road repair
and building) that they use.

Jeff

In article <Gc1al.4143$Db2.1093@edtnps83>,
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > So you don't have any kids in your house. Big whoop. Put a couple
> > growing kids in your house and see how your grocery runs get. Every two
> > weeks? hahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> Typical ****ing LIEbrawl DEMONrats--their KIDS rule the house.
>

What the **** are you talking about?

Kids eat. A lot. Preaching about "just go to the grocery store every
two weeks" is done out of ignorance of how things are in the real world.

As for my politics...I don't think I mentioned them, did I? So how did
you (a) decide what political persuasion I am (all on your own!), and
(b) change this from "going to the grocery every two weeks" into a
discussion on politics?

You're an idiot, an asshole, and ignorant--all in one fell swoop. Mr.
Hat Trick, that's what you are.

In message <elmop-837188.05013510012009@mara100-84.onlink.net>, "Elmo
P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <brU9l.4084$Db2.3440@edtnps83>,
> "Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fess up, how many of you make
>> MORE than one driving trip a week
>> to buy groceries? Clue: one does NOT need fresh lettuce every frigging
>> day--it WILL keep for a fair while in the fridge.
>> I buy gas every TWO weeks, groceries every TWO weeks, except for milk which
>> I buy ONCE a week. Library trips are ONCE a week. No need to rent or buy
>> DVD's etc..I get them on my WEEKLY library trips..
>
>So you don't have any kids in your house. Big whoop. Put a couple
>growing kids in your house and see how your grocery runs get. Every two
>weeks? hahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Not to meniton daily trips to and from the school (that is 3 blocks
away), soccer practice (at the schoolyard), piano lessons, gymnastics,
ballet...

In message
<f7855fb8-a079-42c1-b826-5b7359c14b4f@p29g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,
Jeff <jeff.utz@gmail.com> wrote:

>I don't understand the subject line. I don't see fuel efficiency being
>taxed. Just people being held to pay for the resources (road repair
>and building) that they use.

"But that's so *unfair!*"

- Quote from a random customer at a gas station being asked by a TV
reporter how he felt about a proposed gas tax rate increase.

Jeff wrote:
> On Jan 8, 12:16 am, Tim Howard <tim.how...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>> Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline
>> By RYAN KOST, Associated Press Writer Ryan Kost, Associated Press Writer
>> – Sat Jan 3, 7:38 am ET
>>
>> PORTLAND, Ore. – Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring
>> ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of
>> how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring
>> devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as
>> Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric
>> hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely
>> with gasoline taxes.
>>
>> "I'm glad we're taking a look at it before the potholes get so big that
>> we can't even get out of them," said Leroy Younglove, a Portland driver
>> who participated in a recent pilot program.
>>
>> The proposal is not without critics, including drivers who are concerned
>> about privacy and others who fear the tax could eliminate the financial
>> incentive for buying efficient vehicles.
>>
>> But Oregon is ahead of the nation in exploring the concept, even though
>> it will probably be years before any mileage tax is adopted.
>>
>> Congress is talking about it, too. A congressional commission has
>> envisioned a system similar to the prototype Oregon tested in 2006-2007.
>>
>> The National Commission on Surface Transportation Infrastructure
>> Financing is considering calling for higher gas taxes to keep highways,
>> bridges and transit programs in good shape.
>>
>> But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should
>> consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more
>> fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.
>>
>> As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill," said
>> Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House Transportation and
>> Infrastructure Committee.
>>
>> The next Congress "could begin to set the stage, perhaps looking at some
>> much more robust pilot programs, to begin the research, to work with
>> manufacturers."
>>
>> Gov. Ted Kulongoski has included development money for the tax in his
>> budget proposal, and interest is growing in a number of other states.
>>
>> Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island have considered systems that would
>> require drivers to report their mileage when they register vehicles.
>>
>> In North Carolina last month, a panel suggested charging motorists a
>> quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.
>>
>> James Whitty, the Oregon Department of Transportation employee in charge
>> of the state's effort, said he's also heard talk of mileage tax
>> proposals in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado and Minnesota.
>>
>> "There is kind of a coalition that's naturally forming around this," he
>> said.
>>
>> Also fueling the search for alternatives is the political difficulty of
>> raising gasoline taxes.
>>
>> The federal gas tax has not been raised since 1993, and nearly two dozen
>> states have not changed their taxes since 1997, according to the
>> American Road & Transportation Builders Association.
>>
>> In Oregon's pilot program, officials equipped 300 vehicles with GPS
>> transponders that worked wirelessly with service station pumps, allowing
>> drivers to pay their mileage tax just as they do their gas tax.
>>
>> Whitty said the test, which involved two gas stations in the Portland
>> area, proved the idea could work.
>>
>> Though the GPS devices did not track the cars' locations in great
>> detail, they could determine when a driver had left certain zones, such
>> as the state of Oregon. They also kept track of the time the driving was
>> done, so a premium could be charged for rush-hour mileage.
>>
>> The proposal envisions a gradual change, with manufacturers installing
>> the technology in new vehicles because retrofitting old cars would be
>> too expensive. Owners of older vehicles would continue to pay gasoline
>> taxes.
>>
>> The difference in tax based on mileage or on gasoline would be small —
>> "pennies per transaction at the pump," Whitty said.
>>
>> But the mileage tax still faces several major obstacles.
>>
>> For one, Oregon accounts for only a small part of auto sales, so the
>> state can't go it alone. A multistate or national system would be needed.
>>
>> Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty said
>> he and his task force have assured people that the program does not
>> track detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and
>> cannot be accessed by law enforcement agencies.
>>
>> "I think most people will come to realize there is really no tracking
>> issue and will continue to buy new cars," Whitty said, noting that many
>> cell phones now come equipped with GPS, which has not deterred customers.
>>
>> Others are worried that a mileage tax would undermine years of
>> incentives to switch toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.
>>
>> "It doesn't seem fair," said Paul Niedergang of Portland, that a hybrid
>> would be taxed as much as his Dodge pickup. "I just think the gas tax
>> needs to be updated."
>>
>> Lynda Williams, also of Portland, was not immediately sold on the idea
>> but said it was worth consideration.
>>
>> "We all have to be open-minded," she said. "Our current system just
>> isn't working."
>
> I don't understand the subject line. I don't see fuel efficiency being
> taxed. Just people being held to pay for the resources (road repair
> and building) that they use.
>
> Jeff

Fuel efficiency would be discouraged, and also the proposed tax would
necessitate higher tax levels due to the buraucracy and infrastructure
required to implement it, than would a straight increase in gas tax.
The latter would not only continue incentivizing conservation but would
a) be much more economical and b) would likely have the same or less
impact on the average road user.

nate

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