Honda Car Forum

"Jeff" <jeff.utz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:376818ca-dcda-4e4c-a6b3-2c195e5f35ab@r37g2000prr.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 24, 3:39 pm, "edspyhil...@yahoo.com" <edspyhil...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> On Dec 24, 4:19 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>>
>> > Morons. The companies are about to go down the tubes but the union
>> > leaders
>> > refuse to give anything back. As a matter of fact, they're asking for
>> > more.
>>
>> > The auto industry in this country should be allowed to go down the
>> > tubes.
>> > Then they can restart with workers who realize having a job at an OK
>> > pay
>> > rate is better than having NO job at Union scale...
>>
>> > How stupid can you be?
>>
>> DUH! Wall Street already pissed away $350bn and won't tell anyone
>> what they did with it.
>
> Actually, from the sound of it, it is even more stupid: Wall Street
> doesn't know what it did with it.
>
> Jeff

A fair number of those CEO's should be doing serious penitentiary time. You
won't find me defending obscene salaries and bonuses.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:39:12 -0800, edspyhill01@yahoo.com wrote:

> On Dec 24, 4:19 pm, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>> Morons. The companies are about to go down the tubes but the union leaders
>> refuse to give anything back. As a matter of fact, they're asking for more.
>>
>> The auto industry in this country should be allowed to go down the tubes.
>> Then they can restart with workers who realize having a job at an OK pay
>> rate is better than having NO job at Union scale...
>>
>> How stupid can you be?
>
> DUH! Wall Street already pissed away $350bn and won't tell anyone
> what they did with it.


WTF does that have to do with the UAW?

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 13:27:27 -0800, Jim Higgins wrote:

> On Dec 24, 1:19 pm, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>> Morons. The companies are about to go down the tubes but the union leaders
>> refuse to give anything back. As a matter of fact, they're asking for more.
>>
>> The auto industry in this country should be allowed to go down the tubes.
>> Then they can restart with workers who realize having a job at an OK pay
>> rate is better than having NO job at Union scale...
>>
>> How stupid can you be?
>
>
> The UAW will wind up with 100% of nothing rather than 60% of
> something.

Indeed. But like most unions, they squeeze more and more until there's
less and less.

The large corporation I was working for got in trouble once, and though we
didn't give anything back, the union leaders didn't ask for anything,
either. The die-hard rank-and-file said he was 'sleeping with the company'
but those of us that actually had some brains were glad to keep working.

I was accused of being a 'company man' one time. I looked at the guy and
said, "Someone has to."



>
> Most Americans will NOT support further bailouts for failures
> http://tinyurl.com/8g47ef

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:25:38 -0700, Elle wrote:

> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@e86.GTS> wrote
>> Morons. The companies are about to go down the tubes but
>> the union leaders
>> refuse to give anything back. As a matter of fact, they're
>> asking for more.
>>
>> The auto industry in this country should be allowed to go
>> down the tubes.
>> Then they can restart with workers who realize having a
>> job at an OK pay
>> rate is better than having NO job at Union scale...
>>
>> How stupid can you be?
>
> Stupid enough not to consider that bankruptcy may actually
> payoff better for the unions via government guarantees on
> pensions and unemployment insurance?

And no job. Great. Makes a lot of sense.

You're a union member, aren't you? I can tell.
If you can't squeeze the company, you'll squeeze the government.
Wouldn't you rather keep working?

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:35:23 -0700, Elle wrote:

> "Jeff" <jeff.utz@gmail.com> wrote
> On Dec 24, 1:25 pm, "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote
>>
>> > Morons. The companies are about to go down the tubes but
>> > the union leaders
>> > refuse to give anything back. As a matter of fact,
>> > they're
>> > asking for more.
>>
>> > The auto industry in this country should be allowed to
>> > go
>> > down the tubes.
>> > Then they can restart with workers who realize having a
>> > job at an OK pay
>> > rate is better than having NO job at Union scale...
>>
>> > How stupid can you be?
>>
>> Stupid enough not to consider that bankruptcy may actually
>> payoff better for the unions via government guarantees on
>> pensions and unemployment insurance?
>
> Actually, there are strict limits on what the government
> will
> guarantee for pensions. And I doubt that auto workers will
> get any
> more unemployment than an office worker or other worker.
> ----
>
> Are you saying the unions are not negotiating on the basis
> of what they get if GM yada go bankrupt? I have far more
> confidence that the OP is the negligent one here.

I like to keep working, myself. I don't want the government carrying me.
I know what I hear. ABC said the unions are against negotiating lower
contracts. Only a fool throws water onto a sinking ship.

But, most union members are pretty stupid when it comes to the company.

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@e86.GTS> wrote
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:25:38 -0700, Elle wrote:
>> Stupid enough not to consider that bankruptcy may
>> actually
>> payoff better for the unions via government guarantees on
>> pensions and unemployment insurance?
>
> And no job. Great. Makes a lot of sense.

Count the cents (sic), son, and it may.

> You're a union member, aren't you?

I want the taxpayer to suck up the losses they will take by
having to pay Big 3 union workers' pensions and unemployment
insurance and let the Big 3 go bankrupt. Many of the former
Big 3 union members will then find jobs for the wonderful
Honda and Toyota companies and any other viable automotive
makers.

But fact is unions are not dumb. Dig deeper next time for
the story behind the story.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:21:03 -0700, Elle wrote:

> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@e86.GTS> wrote
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:25:38 -0700, Elle wrote:
>>> Stupid enough not to consider that bankruptcy may
>>> actually
>>> payoff better for the unions via government guarantees on
>>> pensions and unemployment insurance?
>>
>> And no job. Great. Makes a lot of sense.
>
> Count the cents (sic), son, and it may.
>
>> You're a union member, aren't you?
>
> I want the taxpayer to suck up the losses they will take by
> having to pay Big 3 union workers' pensions and unemployment
> insurance and let the Big 3 go bankrupt.

Huh? why the **** should we do that? Other companies go bankrupt and no
one guarantees their pension funds. It's up to the company to make a
viable product or face going out of business, and all that goes along with
that.

If they can't, that's just too bad. I'm hoping the company I worked for
for 10 years stays in business long enough for me to collect my pension.

I may have been a union member, but I'm not stupid enough to think the
government should step in. That's the way it goes.

Are you a Democrat, BTW? Perhaps Obama will save us...

> Many of the former
> Big 3 union members will then find jobs for the wonderful
> Honda and Toyota companies and any other viable automotive
> makers.

Excellent! I'll go myself! I'd love to work for Toyota. I know they're
going to be in business for many more years to come. Because they make a
great product, not because the government props them up.

Workers should be glad to work as regular employees, since Toyota hasn't
laid off regular employees yet. A job is a good thing.


>
> But fact is unions are not dumb. Dig deeper next time for
> the story behind the story.


I heard it right from the UAW President.

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@e86.GTS> wrote
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:21:03 -0700, Elle wrote:
>> I want the taxpayer to suck up the losses they will take
>> by
>> having to pay Big 3 union workers' pensions and
>> unemployment
>> insurance and let the Big 3 go bankrupt.
>
> Other companies go bankrupt and no
> one guarantees their pension funds.

You are mistaken. Go read about the federal government's
guarantees of pensions at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension...ty_Corporation

> Are you a Democrat, BTW? Perhaps Obama will save us...

I so far have voted only Democrat in national elections.
AFAIC it is more likely Obama and Dems than McCain and
Repubs will save the economy. Though right now I am
disgusted with all of them. I vote but with little hope.

The main problem is the American consumer.

OTOH, you need to read about the Great Depression and how
the argument is strong that the government's delay c.
1929-1931 delayed recovery.

Thus spake "Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> :

>"Jeff" <jeff.utz@gmail.com> wrote
>On Dec 24, 1:25 pm, "Elle" <honda.lion...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote
>>
>> > Morons. The companies are about to go down the tubes but
>> > the union leaders
>> > refuse to give anything back. As a matter of fact,
>> > they're
>> > asking for more.
>>
>> > The auto industry in this country should be allowed to
>> > go
>> > down the tubes.
>> > Then they can restart with workers who realize having a
>> > job at an OK pay
>> > rate is better than having NO job at Union scale...
>>
>> > How stupid can you be?
>>
>> Stupid enough not to consider that bankruptcy may actually
>> payoff better for the unions via government guarantees on
>> pensions and unemployment insurance?
>
>Actually, there are strict limits on what the government
>will
>guarantee for pensions. And I doubt that auto workers will
>get any
>more unemployment than an office worker or other worker.
>----
>
>Are you saying the unions are not negotiating on the basis
>of what they get if GM yada go bankrupt? I have far more
>confidence that the OP is the negligent one here.
>

If the Detroit 3 fold up and the Pension Guarantee Fund has to cover
it, they'll get between 75 and 85% of their pensions over a certain
limit. And no medical coverage.

If they go chapter 11, the bankruptcy judge can rewrite the contracts
unilaterally.

So how are the unions winning? By being "big" and giving back now,
the judge would probably be less likely to bang on them if chapter 11
hits. If it's chapter 7, they really haven't lost much.
--
- dillon I am not invalid

When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

Thus spake "Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> :

>
>
>"Jeff" <jeff.utz@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:376818ca-dcda-4e4c-a6b3-2c195e5f35ab@r37g2000prr.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 24, 3:39 pm, "edspyhil...@yahoo.com" <edspyhil...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Dec 24, 4:19 pm, Hachiroku ???? <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Morons. The companies are about to go down the tubes but the union
>>> > leaders
>>> > refuse to give anything back. As a matter of fact, they're asking for
>>> > more.
>>>
>>> > The auto industry in this country should be allowed to go down the
>>> > tubes.
>>> > Then they can restart with workers who realize having a job at an OK
>>> > pay
>>> > rate is better than having NO job at Union scale...
>>>
>>> > How stupid can you be?
>>>
>>> DUH! Wall Street already pissed away $350bn and won't tell anyone
>>> what they did with it.
>>
>> Actually, from the sound of it, it is even more stupid: Wall Street
>> doesn't know what it did with it.
>>
>> Jeff
>
>A fair number of those CEO's should be doing serious penitentiary time. You
>won't find me defending obscene salaries and bonuses.

Sorry, I won't pay to support them in prison. I will, however, pay
for a couple of hundred rounds of 7.62 NATO.
--
- dillon I am not invalid

When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams come true.
Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which
will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no
matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.