Honda Car Forum

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:04:33 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>You mean like making the bigger more powerful cars trucks and SUVs that
>American buyers WANTED to buy so they outsold ALL of the import brands,

Toyota is outselling Ford in the US.
Honda is outselling Chrysler in the US.
Toyota is outselling GM worldwide and threatening them in the US.
Honda is closing in on Ford.
At least two of the Big Three need a government handout or they will
be dead within a month or so.

>who
>also started to make the bigger more powerful cars trucks and SUVs that
>American buyers WANTED to buy, over the past ten years of so that is also
>now doing in the imports?

If those SUVs were such success, why have the Big Three been steadily
losing market share for the past three decades?




>
>
>
>
>Detroit's "best" hope is a forced bankruptcy reorganization to change
>the outdated and lethal mindset that has done them in.
>

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:36:01 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <As6dnUtJlekvrtDUnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@ptd.net>,
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:
>
>> You mean like making the bigger more powerful cars trucks and SUVs that
>> American buyers WANTED to buy
>
>yeah, because having all that steel around you is SO SAFE.
>
>Right?
>
>I mean, that's the under the radar marketing message.
>
>Safe, eh?
>
>- - - - - - -
>
>Child dies from crash that injured 6 others
>Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:07 AM
>By Jeb Phillips
>THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
>A child died last night after a head-on crash on the Far West Side that
>injured six others, including four other children.
>
>The child was riding, unrestrained, in the front passenger seat of 1999
>GMC Suburban vehicle driven by Christopher Belmonte, 43, of Grove City,
>according to the Franklin County sheriff's office. Four children were
>riding in the back seat.
>
>The Suburban was traveling southbound on Norton Road, south of Johnson
>Road, at 6:50 p.m. when it drove left of the center line and was struck
>by 1995 Mercury Sable traveling northbound.
>
>The child in the front seat was transported to Doctors Hospital and
>pronounced dead. The children in the back seat were taken to Nationwide
>Children's Hospital and are in stable condition. Their names have not
>been released.
>
>Belmonte, the Suburban's driver, was taken to Mount Carmel West hospital
>in stable condition. Dennis Wilburn, 33, of Columbus, was driving the
>Sable and also was taken to Mount Carmel West hospital in stable
>condition.
>
>- - - - - - -
>
>Yes sir, with all that steel around him, he was just as safe as could
>be. One child died, and the others remain in critical but stable
>condition.
>
>Meanwhile, the guy in the Sable came out of it relatively cleanly.

But no SUV driver has ever been even slightly injured when he backed
over his kid in the driveway.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/tipsan...ver/index.html

"Rock Hardson" <RH232@yahooo.com> wrote in message
news:494d1c7a$1$1548$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers .com...
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>
> I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
> companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>

To my amazement and dismay, U.S. is intentionally printing 9 trillion
dollars. The purpose of which is to create counter deflation they say.
This may result in hyper-inflation. Making the U.S. dollar worthless.
Under that situation, anything imported will be prohibitively expensive,
and, our exports cheap.

In that same scenario locally, anyone who has accumulated any form of
savings or retirement funds will see it dwindle further in locally much
higher costs of inflation. Which also includes any form of oil and its
derivatives.

This will also increase the U.S. budget deficit significantly other than the
said money printed. It will help create a more significant share of world
export trade, but the cost will be significantly higher. Wages won't be
able to keep up. Its hard to digest, I know. But, it must be stopped as
the problems created far outweigh any anticipated results.
--
Dave

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:48:47 -0600, Gordon McGrew
<gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com> wrote:

>
>>who
>>also started to make the bigger more powerful cars trucks and SUVs that
>>American buyers WANTED to buy, over the past ten years of so that is also
>>now doing in the imports?
>
>If those SUVs were such success, why have the Big Three been steadily
>losing market share for the past three decades?

As you can tell, MH has the same kind of pig headed thinking that has
made GM the business success it is today.

Congrats on the bailout, now they can afford new deck chairs and
toilet seats for the Titanic. Hopefully your name will be on a toilet
seat "donated by" plaque.


On Dec 20, 11:25*am, "Rock Hardson" <RH...@yahooo.com> wrote:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...08/12/19/AR200...
>
> I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
> companies may be in for an ass kicking.

<rantonrave@mail.com> wrote in message
news:37ae352e-9ab8-4f37-a60c-b9a0948620a2@r10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:
>>
>>"Rock Hardson" <RH232@yahooo.com> wrote in message
>>news:494d1c7a$1$1548$822641b3@news.adtechcompute rs.com...
>>>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>>>
>>>I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
>>>companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>>
>>
>>Sorry, you are WRONG. US auto makers do not encourage the culture of
>>quality that the Japanese auto makers embraced about 50 years ago. Until
>>the American automakers demonstrate they are truly commited to quality and
>>not just dependent on whether the head of the company is commited to
>>quality
>>or not, there's not only going to not be a level playing field, there's
>>not
>>gong to be any play.
>>
> The Japanese may have embraced it 50 years ago, but they continued to
> have horrible quality
> (can you say 'Toyopet'?) for another 25 years. It's also a myth that
> Japanese car makers universally have better quality because when
> Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are excluded, their quality falls to being
> only par with ours.

Where did you get the idea that Subaru's are some model of reliability? In
the 2008 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study, they rank well below the
industry average. (Just ahead of Chrysler and Dodge!) Of the Japanese
makes, only Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi are above the industry average.
US makes scoring exceptionally well on the same survey are Mercury,
Cadillac, Buick, and Lincoln. (Mercury and Cadillac are both scoring higher
than Toyota, Acura, and Honda!!!)

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2008115

Derek

"Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSUCKS@twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote in message
news:49507d63$0$17050$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com...
> <rantonrave@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:37ae352e-9ab8-4f37-a60c-b9a0948620a2@r10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:
>>>
>>>"Rock Hardson" <RH232@yahooo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:494d1c7a$1$1548$822641b3@news.adtechcomput ers.com...
>>>>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>>>>
>>>>I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
>>>>companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sorry, you are WRONG. US auto makers do not encourage the culture of
>>>quality that the Japanese auto makers embraced about 50 years ago. Until
>>>the American automakers demonstrate they are truly commited to quality
>>>and
>>>not just dependent on whether the head of the company is commited to
>>>quality
>>>or not, there's not only going to not be a level playing field, there's
>>>not
>>>gong to be any play.
>>>
>> The Japanese may have embraced it 50 years ago, but they continued to
>> have horrible quality
>> (can you say 'Toyopet'?) for another 25 years. It's also a myth that
>> Japanese car makers universally have better quality because when
>> Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are excluded, their quality falls to being
>> only par with ours.
>
> Where did you get the idea that Subaru's are some model of reliability?
> In the 2008 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study, they rank well below the
> industry average. (Just ahead of Chrysler and Dodge!) Of the Japanese
> makes, only Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi are above the industry average.
> US makes scoring exceptionally well on the same survey are Mercury,
> Cadillac, Buick, and Lincoln. (Mercury and Cadillac are both scoring
> higher than Toyota, Acura, and Honda!!!)
>
> http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2008115
>
> Derek
You can talk all day long about the quality of American cars, but some US
American citizens are hell bent on seeing this whole country go down the
tubes beginning with the big industry and US auto manufactures. I can't
figure out where this self sabotage mentality comes from but it can be very
dangerous to our society.
>

"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message
news:-rCdnZYSYvzm5dLUnZ2dnUVZ_tHinZ2d@earthlink.com...
> "Rock Hardson" <RH232@yahooo.com> wrote in message
> news:494d1c7a$1$1548$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers .com...
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>>
>> I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
>> companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>>
>
> To my amazement and dismay, U.S. is intentionally printing 9 trillion
> dollars. The purpose of which is to create counter deflation they say.
> This may result in hyper-inflation. Making the U.S. dollar worthless.
> Under that situation, anything imported will be prohibitively expensive,
> and, our exports cheap.
>
> In that same scenario locally, anyone who has accumulated any form of
> savings or retirement funds will see it dwindle further in locally much
> higher costs of inflation. Which also includes any form of oil and its
> derivatives.
>
> This will also increase the U.S. budget deficit significantly other than
> the said money printed. It will help create a more significant share of
> world export trade, but the cost will be significantly higher. Wages
> won't be able to keep up. Its hard to digest, I know. But, it must be
> stopped as the problems created far outweigh any anticipated results.
> --
> Dave
>
>
They should have thought of that before NAFTA and lopsided import/export
trade agreements.

"A Plumbers Helper Named Joe" <APHNJ@a2e.net> wrote in message
news:495479e8$0$1532$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers .com...
>
> "Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSUCKS@twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:49507d63$0$17050$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com...
>> <rantonrave@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:37ae352e-9ab8-4f37-a60c-b9a0948620a2@r10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Rock Hardson" <RH232@yahooo.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:494d1c7a$1$1548$822641b3@news.adtechcompu ters.com...
>>>>>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
>>>>>
>>>>>I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
>>>>>companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, you are WRONG. US auto makers do not encourage the culture of
>>>>quality that the Japanese auto makers embraced about 50 years ago.
>>>>Until
>>>>the American automakers demonstrate they are truly commited to quality
>>>>and
>>>>not just dependent on whether the head of the company is commited to
>>>>quality
>>>>or not, there's not only going to not be a level playing field, there's
>>>>not
>>>>gong to be any play.
>>>>
>>> The Japanese may have embraced it 50 years ago, but they continued to
>>> have horrible quality
>>> (can you say 'Toyopet'?) for another 25 years. It's also a myth that
>>> Japanese car makers universally have better quality because when
>>> Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are excluded, their quality falls to being
>>> only par with ours.
>>
>> Where did you get the idea that Subaru's are some model of reliability?
>> In the 2008 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study, they rank well below
>> the industry average. (Just ahead of Chrysler and Dodge!) Of the
>> Japanese makes, only Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi are above the industry
>> average. US makes scoring exceptionally well on the same survey are
>> Mercury, Cadillac, Buick, and Lincoln. (Mercury and Cadillac are both
>> scoring higher than Toyota, Acura, and Honda!!!)
>>
>> http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2008115
>>
>> Derek
> You can talk all day long about the quality of American cars, but some US
> American citizens are hell bent on seeing this whole country go down the
> tubes beginning with the big industry and US auto manufactures. I can't
> figure out where this self sabotage mentality comes from but it can be
> very dangerous to our society.
>>
>
>

Dear Derek,

Maybe you should pay attention to your stepsister Casey. American citizens
vote with their dollars, every time they purchase something. They perceive
that the Detroit 3 do not really give a damn about them and have not for a
long time. Even their commercials still tend to sell the sizzle instead of
the steak, although some Toyota commercials tend to be headed that way, too.
But Toyota has established a fairly good reputaion for quality as far back
as 1965 (not 1975 as you seem to think) and Americans are tired of cars that
have to be in the shop as often as their 1930's counterparts for minor, non
scheduled repairs, and rust! I owned a 1995 Chevy S-10 and I had points of
rust on it in the first year, which the dealer refused to do anything about!
I currently own a 1995 Toyota Corolla that still doesn't have any rust on
it.

Wake up and smell the coffee. America LOSES when we do less than our best,
and we've been doing that since the 1960's. When you're number one and you
think that you can do no wrong, the next step is DOWN. Look at K-mart. #1
Discount Retailer in 1980. Who's number one now? Yep, a southern-based
retailer that K-mart didn't see as any kind of threat, because K-mart
thought #1 was theirs by some sort of divine right. Samething with GM, Ford
and Crapsler.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon

On Dec 26, 2:43*am, "CharlesTheCurmudgeon" <n5...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "A Plumbers Helper Named Joe" <AP...@a2e.net> wrote in messagenews:495479e8$0$1532$822641b3@news.adtechco mputers.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSU...@twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:49507d63$0$17050$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshost ing.com...
> >> <rantonr...@mail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:37ae352e-9ab8-4f37-a60c-b9a0948620a2@r10g2000prf.googlegroups.com....
>
> >>> CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:
>
> >>>>"Rock Hardson" <RH...@yahooo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:494d1c7a$1$1548$822641b3@news.adtechcompu ters.com...
> >>>>>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...08/12/19/AR200...
>
> >>>>>I suspect once the US auto industry gets on a level field the foriegn
> >>>>>companies may be in for an ass kicking.
>
> >>>>Sorry, you are WRONG. *US auto makers do not encourage the culture of
> >>>>quality that the Japanese auto makers embraced about 50 years ago.
> >>>>Until
> >>>>the American automakers demonstrate they are truly commited to quality
> >>>>and
> >>>>not just dependent on whether the head of the company is commited to
> >>>>quality
> >>>>or not, *there's not only going to not be a level playing field, there's
> >>>>not
> >>>>gong to be any play.
>
> >>> The Japanese may have embraced it 50 years ago, but they continued to
> >>> have horrible quality
> >>> (can you say 'Toyopet'?) for another 25 years. *It's also a myth that
> >>> Japanese car makers universally have better quality because when
> >>> Toyota, Honda, and Subaru are excluded, their quality falls to being
> >>> only par with ours.
>
> >> Where did you get the idea that Subaru's are some model of reliability?
> >> In the 2008 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study, they rank well below
> >> the industry average. *(Just ahead of Chrysler and Dodge!) *Of the
> >> Japanese makes, only Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi are above the industry
> >> average. US makes scoring exceptionally well on the same survey are
> >> Mercury, Cadillac, Buick, and Lincoln. *(Mercury and Cadillac are both
> >> scoring higher than Toyota, Acura, and Honda!!!)
>
> >>http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...ease.aspx?ID=2....
>
> >> Derek
> > You can talk all day long about the quality of American cars, but some US
> > American citizens are hell bent on seeing this whole country go down the
> > tubes beginning with the big industry and US auto manufactures. I can't
> > figure out where this self sabotage mentality comes from but it can be
> > very dangerous to our society.
>
> Dear Derek,
>
> Maybe you should pay attention to your stepsister Casey. American citizens
> vote with their dollars, every time they purchase something. *They perceive
> that the Detroit 3 do not really give a damn about them and have not for a
> long time.

Neither do the foreign owned companies. They are only concerned with
their own bottom line.

>*Even their commercials still tend to sell the sizzle instead of
> the steak, although some Toyota commercials tend to be headed that way, too.
> But Toyota has established a fairly good reputaion for quality as far back
> as 1965 (not 1975 as you seem to think) and Americans are tired of cars that
> have to be in the shop as often as their 1930's counterparts for minor, non
> scheduled repairs, and rust!

Gee, I own a 1997 Contour. It rarely needed non-scheduled repairs. And
those were expected wear and tear items. I haven't had any problems at
all with my new 2008 Focus - only thing needed was an oil change in
the first 6k. I haven't heard of rust problems on any cars for over 10
years.

> I owned a 1995 Chevy S-10 and I had points of
> rust on it in the first year, which the dealer refused to do anything about!

Why didn't you contact the factory representative?

> I currently own a 1995 Toyota Corolla that still doesn't have any rust on
> it.
>
> Wake up and smell the coffee. *America LOSES when we do less than our best,
> and we've been doing that since the 1960's. *When you're number one andyou
> think that you can do no wrong, the next step is DOWN. *Look at K-mart.*#1
> Discount Retailer in 1980. *Who's number one now? *Yep, a southern-based
> retailer that K-mart didn't see as any kind of threat, because K-mart
> thought #1 was theirs by some sort of divine right. *Samething with GM,Ford
> and Crapsler.

Actually, Ford has done a lot to improve quality and their lineup of
cars. I never knew there was a car called crapsler. Usually when one
has to do name-calling to make a point, the point is not worth
making.

Jeff

> Sir Charles the Curmudgeon