Honda Car Forum

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:42:49 -0500, Mike Marlow wrote:

>> And I bet if your father was putting bread on your
>> table for screwing on a bolt, you would have no problem at all buying
>> American would you?
>
> I have no problem buying either American or import and my father is dead,
> so he's not putting bread on the table for screwing in a bolt. He did
> however, instill in us a drive to work for what you want and not rely on
> lame whines like "mind draining". He taught us that if we don't like where
> we are/what we're doing, then improve yourself in order to move on past it.

LOL! Right-o.

I had some mind-numbing jobs for slightly better than minimum wage.
No union in sight So I went out asap and got another job.

Assembling cars can be dangerous, and there should be pay accounting for
that. But the current wage structure is ridiculous.

I was making less than autoworkers when I was assembling and testing
aircraft components. Of course, that was a bit more stimulating than
turning bolts...

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:14:42 -0500, Rock Hardson wrote:

>> Yeh...and its just fine to that Japanese CEO get billions in return for
>> paying workers $14 and hour to screw on a bolt over and over and over
>> again
>> 8 hours a day. You try doing that and see if you don't go crazy. If you
>> have
>> a job doing crazy mind draining activity at least make it worth your while
>> and get paid for it. And I bet if your father was putting bread on your
>> table for screwing on a bolt, you would have no problem at all buying
>> American would you?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> The UAW is living proof that one does not need to invest in oneself in
> terms of high skills and knowledge.

I am afraid I am lost...are you *FOR* UAW workers, or against???

This post leads me to believe you are against UAW. Make up your mind, will
ya?

IOW, this post says, "It's OK to remain stupid. The UAW will get your
money for you."

That's a good sentiment...Whew...

On Dec 21, 7:49*pm, "E. Meyer" <epmeye...@msn.com> wrote:
> On 12/20/08 4:20 PM, in article
> 778f334f-558e-4223-bab9-99a9fe9aa...@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com,
>
>
>
> "edspyhil...@yahoo.com" <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 20, 2:35*pm, "e.meyer" <epmeye...@msn.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 20, 1:17*pm, "Rock Hardson" <RH...@yahooo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> "E. Meyer" <epmeye...@msn.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>news:C57288BC.155D%epmeyer50@msn.com...
>
> >>>> On 12/20/08 9:41 AM, in article
> >>>> 494d1243$0$1509$82264...@news.adtechcomputers.com, "Rock Hardson"
> >>>> <RH...@yahooo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...08/12/19/AR200...
>
> >>>>> 6.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR
>
> >>>>> The article states that the southern japanese factory worker was offered
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> join the union bringing wages on par to its northern American worker but
> >>>>> they opted to stay bare foot and po' for japanese pennies. How STUPID can
> >>>>> people be! If they had simply joined the union they would be getting the
> >>>>> same exact pay and benefits as the northern worker living a higher
> >>>>> standard
> >>>>> of life and there would have been an even playing field for all
> >>>>> manufactures
> >>>>> from the start. For years it has been said that the Japanese choosethe
> >>>>> southern worker simply to take advantage of there ignorance. I guess the
> >>>>> article proves they were right about that one. Now the northern worker
> >>>>> will
> >>>>> be forced to be dragged down to the level of pay of the southern worker.
> >>>>> Its
> >>>>> a simple question of is everyone on board to make a lot of money orwill
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> segment of the community just drag others down to make a lesser amount of
> >>>>> money???
>
> >>>> If the Southern workers had joined the union and tried to force Detroit
> >>>> style pay and benefit packages, then the Japanese plants would all be in
> >>>> Mexico (just like many GM and Mercedes plants already are).
>
> >>> I got news for you, japanese are already in Mexico.
> >>> The US is there because of the Bush/Clinton NAFTA sellout/New world Order
> >>> BS.
>
> >> Yes they are already in Mexico, and if the workers in the Southern US
> >> states had sold out to the UAW, all those Southern US factories would
> >> be gone, or never built in the first place.
>
> >> You are obviously a union troll.
>
> > What do you do for a living?
>
> I'm a retired engineer (from a US company). *How about you?

Still working at a Pharmaceutical company. They have finally got
around to outsourcing the entire messaging/IT departments. The
layoffs will happen June 2009, Dec 2009, and Aug 2010. Not sure which
one's net I will be caught in.

I think unions are getting some of the flak that should be directed to
our government. The government won't provide national healthcare
benefits but also enables companies to stop providing them because
that makes them too expensive compared to companies in other
countries. The government wants to get out of the retirement business
and offload Social Security to wall street but refuses to put limits
on wall street, and it enables companies to do away with retirement
pensions because providing them makes US companies less able to
compete with companies in other companies.

The government creates a market that permits all drug companies to
charge US citizens a much higher price for prescription drugs - enough
to make up for the loss of discounting prescription drugs to all
countries with national healthcare. It also makes it illegal to buy
the same drugs from Canada.

I think shooting for ideological purity will destroy all but the upper
class, the plutocrats; although how the plutocrats will continue to
exist without a working class who can afford to buy consumer goods is
beyond me.

><edspyhill01@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:f86d32cf-eaea-4bcf-a320-0e8ac6e48f3b@e25g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
>
> I think unions are getting some of the flak that should be directed to
> our government. The government won't provide national healthcare
> benefits but also enables companies to stop providing them because
> that makes them too expensive compared to companies in other
> countries.

Nobody who works for a company with decent heath insurance is willing to
settle for the same kind of health care that is provided by those nations
with a national health care system. That is especially true of the UAW.

"Mark A" <someone@someone.com> wrote in message
news:VZk3l.10473$M01.4272@bignews3.bellsouth.net.. .
> "Rock Hardson" <RH232@yahooo.com> wrote in message
> news:494dce6c$0$1494$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers .com...
>> Again your Glee in American job loss is showing. I just wonder what type
>> of work you do and long you could sustain a job loss.
>
> Here is a question for you:
>
> Suppose you were offered choice between these two:
>
> 1. Agree to only use gasoline made from crude oil produced in the US,
> which would result in a price of $2.50 per gallon.
>
> 2. Willing to purchase gasoline made from imported or US crude oil so that
> you only have to pay $1.50 per gallon and hundreds of thousands of US oil
> industry jobs would be lost.
>
> That's what I thought. Your buy American only counts when it applies to
> you.
>

So your point is Japanese cars cost thousands less than American cars? Thats
your reasoning for buying Japanese? The last time I looked japanese cost
about the same or more. Also your hypothetical question makes little sense
to compare a $1.50 per gallon product to a $20,000 product. Its like asking
would I buy a hershey bar made in the U.S or a German made chocolate bar.
Not only that, the number of American workers working on oil rigs will have
no major effect on the US economy.

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:1x5psd1jx10hl.1gf2kia55xhu0.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:22:08 -0500, Rock Hardson cast forth these pearls
> of
> wisdom...:
>
>
>> Wow...and what do you think the union was developed for? Why were people
>> dying and getting there heads cracked open in the 20 and 30's? Maybe so
>> people like you or your father could actually do a job no matter how
>> menial
>> or mind numbing with dignity and respect without being walked over and
>> disrepected by corporate and for that matter people like you.
>
> Actually, my father who was in the workforce through those formative
> years,
> did not need a union to protect him any more than his son did throughout
> his career. Maybe you have a romantic notion about what the unions are.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

I personally don't care what type of work daddy did, but the fact is the
unions were formed by workers who needed protection in certain industries.
If you were not part of that industry then you obviously did not need a
union. I personally never worked in industry so I have no use for a union,
but again the facts remain that some industries needed to be unionized.

"Rock Hardson" <RH232@yahooo.com> wrote in message
news:494f00ee$0$1528$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers .com...
> So your point is Japanese cars cost thousands less than American cars?
> Thats your reasoning for buying Japanese? The last time I looked japanese
> cost about the same or more. Also your hypothetical question makes little
> sense to compare a $1.50 per gallon product to a $20,000 product. Its like
> asking would I buy a hershey bar made in the U.S or a German made
> chocolate bar. Not only that, the number of American workers working on
> oil rigs will have no major effect on the US economy.

If everyone was forced to buy American cars (or did so voluntarily) the
price would increase because they would have no (or little) competition and
the quality would start to fall off dramatically.

If everyone was forced to buy gasoline produced from American oil companies,
the price would increase because they would have no (or little) competition.

In the late 1980's, when the price of oil hit a low of $8 per barrel, there
were about 500,000 US jobs lost in the oil industry, and other jobs lost in
the communities were those jobs were located. The oil industry jobs in
question are not just those who work on oil rigs.

Since those oil industry job loses didn't occur where you live, you don't
care, and you seem to suggesting the job losses don't really matter or
didn't even happen. I can assure you that those jobs losses had a
devastating effect on many part of Texas, Louisiana, Colorado, and other
places that went far beyond those directly employed in the oil industry.

"Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク" <Trueno@e86.GTS> wrote in message
newsan.2008.12.22.01.35.22.122869@e86.GTS...
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:21:46 -0500, Rock Hardson wrote:
>
>>
>> I make it a point to NEVER buy any car, new or used, assembled by UAW
>> dumb-**** overpaid slob morons...
>>
>> There is not a single UAW leak in possession of a skill set worth
>> their extortionistic wage and benefit package. Back in the sixties,
>> 8th. grade dropouts all over the country would wind up getting $25/hr.
>> to slap hubcaps on Fords and Chevys. **** the UAW and anyone who
>> supports them.
>>
>> Yeh...and its just fine to that Japanese CEO get billions in return for
>> paying workers $14 and hour to screw on a bolt over and over and over
>> again
>> 8 hours a day. You try doing that and see if you don't go crazy. If you
>> have
>> a job doing crazy mind draining activity at least make it worth your
>> while
>> and get paid for it. And I bet if your father was putting bread on your
>> table for screwing on a bolt, you would have no problem at all buying
>> American would you?
>
> At first I thought your original post was tongue-in-cheek and that you
> were *FOR* UAW workers having their pay cut to match the pay of others
> with similar jobs.
>
> This post proves you really *ARE* as ignorant as your original post belies
> you to be.
>


> You don't really know anything about the car industry, do you?

Probably just as much if not more as you.

>
> Your last line in this post: if my father were putting bread on the table
> screwing Toyotas together, why would I want to buy an American car?

Learn to read english, because thats not what the last line says.

>
> Look through other posts I have made in other threads similar to this one.
> I went and looked at an HHR. Two years ago. I am *STILL* waiting for the
> car I asked for to show up: 171HP engine with a 5-speed. NO ONE HAS ONE!
> It was listed as an option back in 2006.

> I got fed up with waiting and bought yet another Toyota. The car I wanted
> was sitting on the lot the second I drove in. It was the display piece.
>
>
> Blame the workers? Maybe. Why should they get paid $25 an hour (~$68 with
> benefits and pension figured in) when others do it for less?

$25 and hour isnt that much in todays economy, how many people really add in
the cost of benefits into there entire salary other than to exagerate a
point. If I am making $100,000 per year should I say I really make $140,000
a year with my health and other benefits? Is that the new way of now
determining someones salary or is it just a new way to exagerate a point to
make a point?
>

> Oh, and the workers for Japanese companies get rotated around the floor
> and different lines so they don't get bored, and so they learn more. And
> they also have the 'whistle' that will stop the entire factory when
> defects are found.
>

And I thought all car manufacturers were now rotating around the floor.


> Another Hammerhead post defending workers that shouldn't have jobs,
> judging from the quality of the product they put out. If the Chinese sent
> cars over here that were the same quality as US cars have been, you'd be
> calling it "Cheap Chinese junk."
>

So now you are determining who should not have a job?? Where should they
be... on welfare on your tax dollar? Another knucklehead post who crawled
out from under a rock.
And how would you know the quality of a US car, you drive a Toyota. You are
pissed because you couldn't find a HHR, at least that is your excuse. If the
quality was so bad why were you looking for a HHR?? Whos posts are ignorant?
>

On Dec 21, 9:49*pm, "Mark A" <some...@someone.com> wrote:
> ><edspyhil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:f86d32cf-eaea-4bcf-a320-0e8ac6e48f3b@e25g2000vbe.googlegroups.com....
>
> > I think unions are getting some of the flak that should be directed to
> > our government. *The government won't provide national healthcare
> > benefits but also enables companies to stop providing them because
> > that makes them too expensive compared to companies in other
> > countries.
>
> Nobody who works for a company with decent heath insurance is willing to
> settle for the same kind of health care that is provided by those nations
> with a national health care system. That is especially true of the UAW.

BUT, how many people have good healthcare plans? The number is
dwindling. In addition, very few can afford the increasing costs of
medical treatments without an HMO. Do you know the stats on how many
people use emergency rooms as their doctor? All opponents of
universal healthcare say taxes will increase. Well, I will lose my
excellent medical plan soon when I'm outsourced and layed off. To
provide something similar will cost me $12,000 or more a year. That
is going to be a stretch if I wind up making $25,000 a year in one of
the few service jobs still available.

Most of the people here who rant and rave about universal healthcare
are retired. I expect a storm of flame posts.

> <edspyhill01@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:00f16450-205e-4612-8e70-7798d2864a0a@r28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> BUT, how many people have good healthcare plans? The number is
> dwindling. In addition, very few can afford the increasing costs of
> medical treatments without an HMO. Do you know the stats on how many
> people use emergency rooms as their doctor? All opponents of
> universal healthcare say taxes will increase. Well, I will lose my
> excellent medical plan soon when I'm outsourced and layed off. To
> provide something similar will cost me $12,000 or more a year. That
>is going to be a stretch if I wind up making $25,000 a year in one of
> the few service jobs still available.

Maybe you are confusing "good" with "free" (or close to free). I am talking
about quality, not cost.

In virtually all countries that provide government health care, they decide
what doctor you go to, they decide what treatment will be done (unless you
go to a private doctor and pay for it yourself). Even if you get the
treatment you want, you might have wait months or years to get it, unless it
is emergency surgery. If you are of a certain age, they will often not
approve certain procedures because they cost too much for someone who
doesn't have a lot of years to live (they decide what "a lot" means).

Now, whether or not these things that are characteristic of government run
health care systems are reasonable or not, the UAW will not accept them for
their own coverage. If they did, the Big 3 auto workers would not need to
borrow billions from the US government to stay in business.

BTW, who was chosen as our company's outsourcing provider?