Honda Car Forum

"Mark A" <someone@someone.com> wrote in message
news:ed%3l.11656$mw2.4620@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. .
> "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
> news:M_Odnfk1WfPd8M3UnZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> So, what would happen if GM, Ford, and Chrysler went under, and WWIII
>> started? Sure, Japan are our "friends" now, but what would happen if
>> they were on the opposite side of the US? Do you think they would supply
>> us with the tools and equipment we would need to kick there own asses?
>> "Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it...Those who fail
>> to learn it correctly, why they are simply doomed".
>
> Making cars is not rocket science. Anyway, the foreign car companies have
> plants in the US, and if Japan every was at war with the US (probably the
> least likely country besides UK to be at war with US), then we can take
> their plants over.
>
> If we are at war with Japan, we are not going to kick their asses with
> cars.
>
Sure we could take over there factories even with there technology,
because the US would be rusty since they will no longer be innovators. The
US would be dumbed down when it comes to manufacturing because some saw
fit to shut them down when things got economicaly tight. Just throw the
baby out with the bath water.

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@e86.GTS> wrote in message
newsan.2008.12.22.13.48.44.114234@e86.GTS...
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:24:38 -0500, Rock Hardson wrote:
>
>>
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@e86.GTS> wrote in message
>> newsan.2008.12.22.01.35.22.122869@e86.GTS...
>>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:21:46 -0500, Rock Hardson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I make it a point to NEVER buy any car, new or used, assembled by UAW
>>>> dumb-**** overpaid slob morons...
>>>>
>>>> There is not a single UAW leak in possession of a skill set worth
>>>> their extortionistic wage and benefit package. Back in the sixties,
>>>> 8th. grade dropouts all over the country would wind up getting $25/hr.
>>>> to slap hubcaps on Fords and Chevys. **** the UAW and anyone who
>>>> supports them.
>>>>
>>>> Yeh...and its just fine to that Japanese CEO get billions in return for
>>>> paying workers $14 and hour to screw on a bolt over and over and over
>>>> again
>>>> 8 hours a day. You try doing that and see if you don't go crazy. If you
>>>> have
>>>> a job doing crazy mind draining activity at least make it worth your
>>>> while
>>>> and get paid for it. And I bet if your father was putting bread on your
>>>> table for screwing on a bolt, you would have no problem at all buying
>>>> American would you?
>>>
>>> At first I thought your original post was tongue-in-cheek and that you
>>> were *FOR* UAW workers having their pay cut to match the pay of others
>>> with similar jobs.
>>>
>>> This post proves you really *ARE* as ignorant as your original post
>>> belies
>>> you to be.
>>>
>>
>>
>>> You don't really know anything about the car industry, do you?
>>
>> Probably just as much if not more as you.
>
> Perhaps. Perhaps not.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Your last line in this post: if my father were putting bread on the
>>> table
>>> screwing Toyotas together, why would I want to buy an American car?
>>
>> Learn to read english, because thats not what the last line says.
>
>
> Gee. I thought it said this:
>
> And I bet if your father was putting bread on your
> table for screwing on a bolt, you would have no problem at all buying
> American would you?
>
> Could'a sworn that's what it said.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Look through other posts I have made in other threads similar to this
>>> one.
>>> I went and looked at an HHR. Two years ago. I am *STILL* waiting for the
>>> car I asked for to show up: 171HP engine with a 5-speed. NO ONE HAS ONE!
>>> It was listed as an option back in 2006.
>>
>>> I got fed up with waiting and bought yet another Toyota. The car I
>>> wanted
>>> was sitting on the lot the second I drove in. It was the display piece.
>>>
>>>
>>> Blame the workers? Maybe. Why should they get paid $25 an hour (~$68
>>> with
>>> benefits and pension figured in) when others do it for less?
>>
>> $25 and hour isnt that much in todays economy, how many people really add
>> in
>> the cost of benefits into there entire salary other than to exagerate a
>> point.
>
> $25 is a lot for people that have the skills necessary to wash dishes.
> I know people that work at GM. Hey, good for them! They have a job that
> pays well. Some of them even have high school diplomas.
>
>
>> If I am making $100,000 per year should I say I really make $140,000
>> a year with my health and other benefits? Is that the new way of now
>> determining someones salary or is it just a new way to exagerate a point
>> to
>> make a point?
>
> Benefits, Worker's Comp, Unemployment insurance and pensions cost the
> employer money per employee. Most people don't figure it in the cost of a
> salary. It's often calculated under Cost Of Goods Sold or some other such
> accounting principle. But it is part of the compensation a worker
> receives, and is figured into the cost of the car.
>
> You don't consider your benefits part of your wage package? Must be a
> union worker. They don't consider much of anything, on the whole.
>
> And I was a union worker a couple times. Yeah, I was paid well. But I also
> had highly skilled jobs that required a certain level of education,
> training and experience. You want to to get on a plane that had parts
> assembled by the lowest common denominator?
>
> And I was still $6 less than the average Detroit UAW member. That is, what
> I got in my paycheck. I didn't have quite as good benefits as they did,
> either.
>
>>>
>>
>>> Oh, and the workers for Japanese companies get rotated around the floor
>>> and different lines so they don't get bored, and so they learn more. And
>>> they also have the 'whistle' that will stop the entire factory when
>>> defects are found.
>>>
>>
>> And I thought all car manufacturers were now rotating around the floor.
>
> Took them long enough...
>
>>
>>
>>> Another Hammerhead post defending workers that shouldn't have jobs,
>>> judging from the quality of the product they put out. If the Chinese
>>> sent
>>> cars over here that were the same quality as US cars have been, you'd be
>>> calling it "Cheap Chinese junk."
>>>
>>
>> So now you are determining who should not have a job??
>
> Yup. I spend my money where I want. I get the best I can for the dollars I
> work for.
>
> I had a Chrysler. Damn good car. It was given to me by a friend. I traded
> it toward the Scion I bought instead of the HHR. One of the nicest cars I
> ever owned, ran well, dependable, comfortable. It was also $30,000 in
> 1994.
> Nice car, but no car is worth $30,000. For inflation, that car would now
> be ~$40,000.
>
> If Detroit can compete, they should. But they don't. They're too damn
> arrogant to realize they don't make the best product. GM has been getting
> cheaper and cheaper over the years. You know why? They want to keep the
> Shareholders happy. So the customer suffers so the shareholders can have a
> bigger return.
>
> For 25 years I have been saying that keeping the shareholders happy was
> not the way to do business, and if they don't start making the customers
> happy, they're going to be in trouble. I even put that in a paper I wrote
> about the car industry 17 years ago.
>
> The only reson none of this happened earlier was because they were using
> the financial divisions to hold up the failures of the manufacturing
> divisions. Guess what? The financials collapsed, and now they're caught
> with their pants down.
>
> The bottom line? not only are the customers not happy, but the
> shareholders aren't either. And they've proved it by voting with their
> feet. Seen the price of GM stock lately?
>
> So tell me, why should I buy a crummy car in order that someone should
> have a job?
>
> Welcome to the Real World.
>
>
>> Where should they
>> be... on welfare on your tax dollar? Another knucklehead post who crawled
>> out from under a rock.
>
> You chose to cross post this to the Nissan, Toyota and Honda groups. So
> someone comes up and throws an egg at you and you go to pieces?
>
> Next time try alt.kids.movies where it won't get pointed out what a
> hammerhead you are.
>
> Or are you just a Troll?
>
>
>> And how would you know the quality of a US car, you drive a Toyota.
>
> See above about the Chrysler. And I have also had a 2-year old Caravan,
> and 2 15 year old Grand Voyagers. They were beaters (except for the
> Caravan) but they ran well. Of course, all of them had the transmissions
> replaced at some point in time. And one of the Voyagers had an egine
> problem common to early 3.3 liter engine, sounded like it was going to
> blow up any second, but it still ran.
>
>> You are
>> pissed because you couldn't find a HHR, at least that is your excuse. If
>> the
>> quality was so bad why were you looking for a HHR?? Whos posts are
>> ignorant?
>
> Because I was looking for something to haul band gear around in, that
> looked good, and would be fun to drive if there wasn't any band equipment
> anymore. And I liked the old Pie Wagons from the 50's.
>
> The damn thing couldn't get out of it's own way with two people. I have to
> admit the interior didn't look as cheap as GMs from the late 80's/early
> 90's, and the switches didn't feel like they were going to come off in my
> hand.
>
> But I waited 2 weeks before buying the Scion, and then 4 weeks after that
> they called me and said they had a 171 HP model on the lot. Five-speed?
> Nope?
>
> Can't guy something they don't have, can I? The Scion I wanted wa right on
> the corner of the lot waiting for me when I pulled in.
>

Probably because no one else wanted a Scion and lots of people wanted the
HHR, its called supply and demand.

"Mark A" <someone@someone.com> wrote in message
news:RAD3l.11119$dc4.7485@bignews2.bellsouth.net.. .
> "Rock Hardson" <RH232@yahooo.com> wrote in message
> news:494f00ee$0$1528$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers .com...
>> So your point is Japanese cars cost thousands less than American cars?
>> Thats your reasoning for buying Japanese? The last time I looked japanese
>> cost about the same or more. Also your hypothetical question makes little
>> sense to compare a $1.50 per gallon product to a $20,000 product. Its
>> like asking would I buy a hershey bar made in the U.S or a German made
>> chocolate bar. Not only that, the number of American workers working on
>> oil rigs will have no major effect on the US economy.
>
> If everyone was forced to buy American cars (or did so voluntarily) the
> price would increase because they would have no (or little) competition
> and the quality would start to fall off dramatically.

And you can say the same exact thing regarding a Japanese monopoly. But its
really funny that auto prices began to skyrocket in the late 70s when the
japanese fad started.

>
> If everyone was forced to buy gasoline produced from American oil
> companies, the price would increase because they would have no (or little)
> competition.

>
> In the late 1980's, when the price of oil hit a low of $8 per barrel,
> there were about 500,000 US jobs lost in the oil industry, and other jobs
> lost in the communities were those jobs were located. The oil industry
> jobs in question are not just those who work on oil rigs.
>
> Since those oil industry job loses didn't occur where you live, you don't
> care, and you seem to suggesting the job losses don't really matter or
> didn't even happen. I can assure you that those jobs losses had a
> devastating effect on many part of Texas, Louisiana, Colorado, and other
> places that went far beyond those directly employed in the oil industry.

That job loss would have nowhere the effect if the US auto industry were
to shut down. Sure 500, 000 is a lot but its not 3 million.

>
>

"A Plumbers Helper Named Joe" <APHNJ@a2e.net> wrote in message
news:495479e9$0$1532$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers .com...
> Sure we could take over there factories even with there technology,
> because the US would be rusty since they will no longer be innovators.
> The US would be dumbed down when it comes to manufacturing because some
> saw fit to shut them down when things got economicaly tight. Just throw
> the baby out with the bath water.

Even though a lot of products are made overseas, they are engineered in the
US. Same applies to the most sophisticated auto assembly plants, like the
Ford plant in Brazil.

"A Plumbers Helper Named Joe" <APHNJ@a2e.net> wrote in message
news:495479e9$2$1532$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers .com...
>> If everyone was forced to buy gasoline produced from American oil
>> companies, the price would increase because they would have no (or
>> little)
>> competition.

That is because there were import quotas and tarrifs on Japanese cars being
imported into the US.

> That job loss would have nowhere the effect if the US auto industry were
> to shut down. Sure 500, 000 is a lot but its not 3 million.

It really matters of where you live. People in the South, Southwest, and
West don't care about job losses in the rust belt, and vis versa.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:51:28 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>
>In any event SS and Medicare are CURRENTLY headed to insolvency as we speak.
>President Bush tried to reform SS and Medicare but the Dims would not go
>along.

Say what? Bush us the guy who passed legislation specifically making
it ILLEGAL for the US Gov't to negotiate the price of drugs purchased
by Medicare. He made sure that it was illegal to buy cheaper,
identical drugs from Canada.

Bush's only interest was in making his friends in business, in this
case the drug companies, richer. He had no interest whatsoever in
making SS solvent (unless he was going to be able to divert those
dollars to some more of his friends in the financial industry).

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:36:38 -0800 (PST), "rantonrave@mail.com"
<rantonrave@mail.com> wrote:

>
>
>Mike Hunter wrote:
>>:
>>Besides the shark lawyers, one of the primary reason healthcare costs are so
>>high in the US is BECAUSE of the government! It SETS the Medicare
>>reimbursement rates very high. Any doctor or hospital that accepts
>>Medicare patients MUST charge the SET Medicare reimbursement rates TO
>>EVERYBODY or they can be charged with Medicare fraud!
>>
>You could be correct if the year was still 1968, but Medicare has
>operated under cost controls since the mid-1970s, and currently no
>health payment system, public or private, sets lower reimbursements
>for hospitals and doctors than Medicare, except possibly some Medicaid
>programs or Tricare.

As always, MH has it ass backwards. The US Gov't requires that it
always receive the LOWEST price of any vendor. It's fraud when you
charge other vendors less without lowering your price to the
government (fraud because you signed a contract that said you'd give
them the lowest price).

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 01:27:36 -0500, A Plumbers Helper Named Joe wrote:

>>
>> The damn thing couldn't get out of it's own way with two people. I have to
>> admit the interior didn't look as cheap as GMs from the late 80's/early
>> 90's, and the switches didn't feel like they were going to come off in my
>> hand.
>>
>> But I waited 2 weeks before buying the Scion, and then 4 weeks after that
>> they called me and said they had a 171 HP model on the lot. Five-speed?
>> Nope?
>>
>> Can't guy something they don't have, can I? The Scion I wanted wa right on
>> the corner of the lot waiting for me when I pulled in.
>>
>
> Probably because no one else wanted a Scion and lots of people wanted the
> HHR, its called supply and demand.

LOL! Nice try. The Scion was in extremely high demand at that time. I was
lucky to find the one I wanted. There were only 5 tCs on the lot.

OTOH, there were over a dozen HHRs. Out of 12 vehicles, you'd think that
ONE would have the options I wanted. They couldn't find one in three
states, out of over 100 vehicles.

Try again though. I enjoy a good laugh.

But the sad part is GM DIDN'T MAKE ANY OF THE MODEL I WANTED.

"Mark A" <someone@someone.com> wrote in message
news:Lc05l.12892$mw2.5067@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. .
> "A Plumbers Helper Named Joe" <APHNJ@a2e.net> wrote in message
> news:495479e9$0$1532$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers .com...
>> Sure we could take over there factories even with there technology,
>> because the US would be rusty since they will no longer be innovators.
>> The US would be dumbed down when it comes to manufacturing because
>> some saw fit to shut them down when things got economicaly tight. Just
>> throw the baby out with the bath water.
>
> Even though a lot of products are made overseas, they are engineered in
> the US. Same applies to the most sophisticated auto assembly plants, like
> the Ford plant in Brazil.

So, are you saying that if the Big3 go under, Toyota is going to hire people
in the US to build there plants in Japan and Mexico? Get a grip on reality,
please.

"80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
news:M4SdnXpCOsr2esrUnZ2dnUVZ_tfinZ2d@giganews.com ...
> So, are you saying that if the Big3 go under, Toyota is going to hire
> people in the US to build there plants in Japan and Mexico? Get a grip on
> reality, please.

I didn't say anything of the kind. Nor was I specifically addressing the
auto industry. Go back and read my post.

BTW, if the Big3 go under (unlikely they would go into liquidation), Toyota
is not going to build more plants in Japan.

I really get tired of a bunch a whining union members claiming that if we
don't save the Big3 then the US will loose it manufacturing base, which
would have some sort of catastrophic effect on the US. They don't complain
when non-union software development has been shipped offshore, or when the
US is not allowed to develop its own energy resources and buy cheap oil from
foreign countries instead.