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13 Dec 2008, 05:08 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
On Dec 13, 5:01 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:10:18 -0500, Tim wrote: > > I don't think this is a loan, is it? It is giving Toyota the money to > > pay these workers wages for 7 or 8 years, from the taxpayer and workers > > themselves. This is what has to stop. > > It's called getting the manufacturer into your area. See, they aren't > dumb. They know that 4,000 underemployed people put more of a drain on the > system than giving the manufacturer a tax break. it works well because > instead of having 4,000 people making minimum wage, paying taxes at the > minimum wage rate, and often asking for assistance such as fuel assistance > or Food Stamps, you now have 4,000 people paying IN taxes at a higher rate. > While they may not be making as much as if they had 4,000 people paying > higher taxes AND a corporation paying taxes, they are still coming out > ahead. > > This is where 'trickle-down' works. Now you have 4,000 people with REAL > wages and more disposable income, so more people are going to open shops > in the area, and again the 'lost' taxes are more than compensated. > > So, they didn't really give anything away. They're probably laughing their > asses off at Detroit. And taxes the workers pay go to partially pay for their own salaries and benefits (if any), and the kickbacks to the politicians. Another perfect unfettered capitalist wet dream.     
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13 Dec 2008, 05:59 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:10:18 -0500, Tim wrote: > >> I don't think this is a loan, is it? It is giving Toyota the money to >> pay these workers wages for 7 or 8 years, from the taxpayer and workers >> themselves. This is what has to stop. > > > It's called getting the manufacturer into your area. See, they aren't > dumb. They know that 4,000 underemployed people put more of a drain on the > system than giving the manufacturer a tax break. it works well because > instead of having 4,000 people making minimum wage, paying taxes at the > minimum wage rate, and often asking for assistance such as fuel assistance > or Food Stamps, you now have 4,000 people paying IN taxes at a higher rate. > While they may not be making as much as if they had 4,000 people paying > higher taxes AND a corporation paying taxes, they are still coming out > ahead. > > This is where 'trickle-down' works. Now you have 4,000 people with REAL > wages and more disposable income, so more people are going to open shops > in the area, and again the 'lost' taxes are more than compensated. > > So, they didn't really give anything away. They're probably laughing their > asses off at Detroit. So you pay $250,000.00 per job? So you use taxes to pay the wages from which taxes are then deducted. You must be an economist.
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13 Dec 2008, 07:08 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
"Tim" <jmeth111@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:343ee$49443e55$cef8ac46$12156@TEKSAVVY.COM... > So you pay $250,000.00 per job? So you use taxes to pay the wages from > which taxes are then deducted. > You must be an economist. Most of the tax breaks are on property taxes or other taxes that would not exist if the company did not move there and build a facility on vacant land or farmland. How much do you think you can tax farmland or vacant land?
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13 Dec 2008, 07:22 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:59:34 -0500, Tim wrote:
> Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:10:18 -0500, Tim wrote: >> >>> I don't think this is a loan, is it? It is giving Toyota the money to >>> pay these workers wages for 7 or 8 years, from the taxpayer and workers >>> themselves. This is what has to stop. >> >> >> It's called getting the manufacturer into your area. See, they aren't >> dumb. They know that 4,000 underemployed people put more of a drain on the >> system than giving the manufacturer a tax break. it works well because >> instead of having 4,000 people making minimum wage, paying taxes at the >> minimum wage rate, and often asking for assistance such as fuel assistance >> or Food Stamps, you now have 4,000 people paying IN taxes at a higher rate. >> While they may not be making as much as if they had 4,000 people paying >> higher taxes AND a corporation paying taxes, they are still coming out >> ahead. >> >> This is where 'trickle-down' works. Now you have 4,000 people with REAL >> wages and more disposable income, so more people are going to open shops >> in the area, and again the 'lost' taxes are more than compensated. >> >> So, they didn't really give anything away. They're probably laughing their >> asses off at Detroit. > > So you pay $250,000.00 per job? So you use taxes to pay the wages from > which taxes are then deducted. > You must be an economist. They aren't 'paying' anything. They have given Toyota tax breaks for moving the factory into the town. In the long run, it makes economic sense. Like I said, 4-6,000 people *working* is a lot better than 4-6,000 people NOT working, or making minimum wage. The tax incentive will run out, and then the factory will be paying taxes. The town is coming out ahead.
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13 Dec 2008, 07:32 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: > On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:59:34 -0500, Tim wrote: > > >>Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:10:18 -0500, Tim wrote: >>> >>> >>>>I don't think this is a loan, is it? It is giving Toyota the money to >>>>pay these workers wages for 7 or 8 years, from the taxpayer and workers >>>>themselves. This is what has to stop. >>> >>> >>>It's called getting the manufacturer into your area. See, they aren't >>>dumb. They know that 4,000 underemployed people put more of a drain on the >>>system than giving the manufacturer a tax break. it works well because >>>instead of having 4,000 people making minimum wage, paying taxes at the >>>minimum wage rate, and often asking for assistance such as fuel assistance >>>or Food Stamps, you now have 4,000 people paying IN taxes at a higher rate. >>>While they may not be making as much as if they had 4,000 people paying >>>higher taxes AND a corporation paying taxes, they are still coming out >>>ahead. >>> >>>This is where 'trickle-down' works. Now you have 4,000 people with REAL >>>wages and more disposable income, so more people are going to open shops >>>in the area, and again the 'lost' taxes are more than compensated. >>> >>>So, they didn't really give anything away. They're probably laughing their >>>asses off at Detroit. >> >>So you pay $250,000.00 per job? So you use taxes to pay the wages from >>which taxes are then deducted. >>You must be an economist. > > > > They aren't 'paying' anything. They have given Toyota tax breaks for > moving the factory into the town. > > In the long run, it makes economic sense. Like I said, 4-6,000 people > *working* is a lot better than 4-6,000 people NOT working, or making > minimum wage. > > The tax incentive will run out, and then the factory will be paying taxes. > > The town is coming out ahead. Yeah, just setting up a race to the bottom. Ask Indianapolis how their big maintenance hangar deal worked out.
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13 Dec 2008, 10:11 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:32:49 -0500, News wrote:
> > > Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:59:34 -0500, Tim wrote: >> >> >>>Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >>> >>>>On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:10:18 -0500, Tim wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I don't think this is a loan, is it? It is giving Toyota the money to >>>>>pay these workers wages for 7 or 8 years, from the taxpayer and workers >>>>>themselves. This is what has to stop. >>>> >>>> >>>>It's called getting the manufacturer into your area. See, they aren't >>>>dumb. They know that 4,000 underemployed people put more of a drain on the >>>>system than giving the manufacturer a tax break. it works well because >>>>instead of having 4,000 people making minimum wage, paying taxes at the >>>>minimum wage rate, and often asking for assistance such as fuel assistance >>>>or Food Stamps, you now have 4,000 people paying IN taxes at a higher rate. >>>>While they may not be making as much as if they had 4,000 people paying >>>>higher taxes AND a corporation paying taxes, they are still coming out >>>>ahead. >>>> >>>>This is where 'trickle-down' works. Now you have 4,000 people with REAL >>>>wages and more disposable income, so more people are going to open shops >>>>in the area, and again the 'lost' taxes are more than compensated. >>>> >>>>So, they didn't really give anything away. They're probably laughing their >>>>asses off at Detroit. >>> >>>So you pay $250,000.00 per job? So you use taxes to pay the wages from >>>which taxes are then deducted. >>>You must be an economist. >> >> >> >> They aren't 'paying' anything. They have given Toyota tax breaks for >> moving the factory into the town. >> >> In the long run, it makes economic sense. Like I said, 4-6,000 people >> *working* is a lot better than 4-6,000 people NOT working, or making >> minimum wage. >> >> The tax incentive will run out, and then the factory will be paying taxes. >> >> The town is coming out ahead. > > > Yeah, just setting up a race to the bottom. > > Ask Indianapolis how their big maintenance hangar deal worked out. Only problem is, Toyota makes a *profit*. YEah, setting up a company that operates at a loss is pretty stupid, isn't it?
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13 Dec 2008, 10:38 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: > On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:32:49 -0500, News wrote: > > >> >>Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:59:34 -0500, Tim wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hachiroku ハチ*ク wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:10:18 -0500, Tim wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I don't think this is a loan, is it? It is giving Toyota the money to >>>>>>pay these workers wages for 7 or 8 years, from the taxpayer and workers >>>>>>themselves. This is what has to stop. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It's called getting the manufacturer into your area. See, they aren't >>>>>dumb. They know that 4,000 underemployed people put more of a drain on the >>>>>system than giving the manufacturer a tax break. it works well because >>>>>instead of having 4,000 people making minimum wage, paying taxes at the >>>>>minimum wage rate, and often asking for assistance such as fuel assistance >>>>>or Food Stamps, you now have 4,000 people paying IN taxes at a higher rate. >>>>>While they may not be making as much as if they had 4,000 people paying >>>>>higher taxes AND a corporation paying taxes, they are still coming out >>>>>ahead. >>>>> >>>>>This is where 'trickle-down' works. Now you have 4,000 people with REAL >>>>>wages and more disposable income, so more people are going to open shops >>>>>in the area, and again the 'lost' taxes are more than compensated. >>>>> >>>>>So, they didn't really give anything away. They're probably laughing their >>>>>asses off at Detroit. >>>> >>>>So you pay $250,000.00 per job? So you use taxes to pay the wages from >>>>which taxes are then deducted. >>>>You must be an economist. >>> >>> >>> >>>They aren't 'paying' anything. They have given Toyota tax breaks for >>>moving the factory into the town. >>> >>>In the long run, it makes economic sense. Like I said, 4-6,000 people >>>*working* is a lot better than 4-6,000 people NOT working, or making >>>minimum wage. >>> >>>The tax incentive will run out, and then the factory will be paying taxes. >>> >>>The town is coming out ahead. >> >> >>Yeah, just setting up a race to the bottom. >> >>Ask Indianapolis how their big maintenance hangar deal worked out. > > > > Only problem is, Toyota makes a *profit*. > > YEah, setting up a company that operates at a loss is pretty stupid, > isn't it? > > Profit or loss is not the issue. The issue is municipalities issuing incentives to steal other municipalities' businesses and tax revenues. Not even a zero sum game, a race to the bottom.
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13 Dec 2008, 10:59 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
"News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
news:L4Kdnf9mY8Q_4tnUnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > Profit or loss is not the issue. > > The issue is municipalities issuing incentives to steal other > municipalities' businesses and tax revenues. > > Not even a zero sum game, a race to the bottom. Not any different than a business (or individual proprietor) who lowers their prices to attract more business away from other businesses. Other countries do the same thing to attract business to offshore locations. That's the way the system works. If you don't like it, there is still North Korea or Cuba that you can move to.
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13 Dec 2008, 11:05 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
Mark A wrote: > "News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message > news:L4Kdnf9mY8Q_4tnUnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... > >>Profit or loss is not the issue. >> >>The issue is municipalities issuing incentives to steal other >>municipalities' businesses and tax revenues. >> >>Not even a zero sum game, a race to the bottom. > > > Not any different than a business (or individual proprietor) who lowers > their prices to attract more business away from other businesses. Other > countries do the same thing to attract business to offshore locations. > That's the way the system works. If you don't like it, there is still North > Korea or Cuba that you can move to. Enjoy your race to the bottom. First one there loses.
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13 Dec 2008, 11:05 pm
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Re: What about these gifts to Toyota
"Mark A" <someone@someone.com> wrote in message
news:Rp%0l.7653$dc4.2605@bignews2.bellsouth.net... > "News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message > news:L4Kdnf9mY8Q_4tnUnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t... >> Profit or loss is not the issue. >> >> The issue is municipalities issuing incentives to steal other >> municipalities' businesses and tax revenues. >> >> Not even a zero sum game, a race to the bottom. > > Not any different than a business (or individual proprietor) who lowers > their prices to attract more business away from other businesses. Other > countries do the same thing to attract business to offshore locations. > That's the way the system works. If you don't like it, there is still > North Korea or Cuba that you can move to. > Close attention to the workings of your city or town council will reveal that such dealings are not always based on good business sense. Unfortunately, such close attention might require ripping yourself away from television once or twice a month.
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