Honda Car Forum

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:huv0l.10388$YU2.6271@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Jeff Findley wrote:
>
>> Of course, all but the smallest hybrids seem to get poor mileage. My
>> wife's Pontiac Vibe's EPA estimates are 25 city 33 highway. We'd never
>> trade that for a hybrid that gets essentially the same mileage.
>
> And the non-hybrid, VW Jetta TDI, set a new Guinness record for averaging
> 58.82 miles per gallon. No batteries, no electric motors, and a car that
> those that would never buy a Prius might be willing to buy.
>
> What changed in the U.S. for diesel's is that diesel fuel is now
> low-sulfer. A lot of diesel engines sold around the world can now be used
> in the U.S.. Mitsubishi could really leverage this if they had a marketing
> person working for them.
>
> Of course the TDI comes to market at the one time in history when diesel
> is much more expensive than gasoline. The $1300 federal income tax credit
> might help offset that cost (not available on Prius).

Just one problem: It's a Volkswagen.

On Dec 12, 10:41*am, "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote:
> "Jeff Findley" <jeff.find...@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e5a7a$4942830f$927a2cda$5977@FUSE.NET...
>
>
>
> > "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
> >news:s7-dnVXzwO9CO9zUnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> >> Actually, the Escalade Hybrid get's 20 MPG city, and 21 MPG highway.
> >> There's nothing wrong with that. *It even does better then the Mini
> >> Cooper S, and BMW X3. *I'm not saying I would buy one, as I don't think
> >> they are attractive, but you can't complain about those kind of MPG
> >> figures for such a huge vehicle.
>
> > There is nothing great about it either. *You can get a full size Impala
> > will get 19 mpg in the city and 29 on the highway (6 cyl, 3.5 L, Automatic
> > 4-spd). *Even with the 5.3 L V8 you'll get 16 mpg city and 24 mpg highway.
>
> Very true, but there is a huge difference between an Impala, and an
> Escalade, Yukon, or Tahoe.

Nor does the Impala actually get over 20 MPG in real world driving.
The only time I've ever gotten decent mileage is on a long highway
trip with little to no other traffic - any minor speed fluctuations
drive the gas mileage into the crapper. If you can kick it up to 70,
set the cruise control, and leave it there for an hour or two it will
actually get decent mileage. that's not exactly a real world
condition though.

nate

Jeff Findley wrote:

> Unfortunately, GM did *a lot* to hurt the reputation of diesels in the US.
> Just another way they've really screwed up the US car market. :-P

I remember that, but a lot of people have likely forgotten by now.

What's interesting about the new VW is that it's the first diesel car in
a long time that can be sold in California. I'm not sure of the whole
reason why diesels were not sold in California for a while, especially
since it was legal to buy them in other states and bring them in (and
some dealers made money selling "used" diesel VWs that were really new,
but purchased in Oregon and driven down).

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Miw0l.26275$v37.448@newsfe01.iad...
> "Hairy" <hairy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6qfh3tFccfrrU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
>> news:e5a7a$4942830f$927a2cda$5977@FUSE.NET...
>>>
>>> "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
>>> news:s7-dnVXzwO9CO9zUnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> Actually, the Escalade Hybrid get's 20 MPG city, and 21 MPG highway.
>>>> There's nothing wrong with that. It even does better then the Mini
>>>> Cooper S, and BMW X3. I'm not saying I would buy one, as I don't think
>>>> they are attractive, but you can't complain about those kind of MPG
>>>> figures for such a huge vehicle.
>>>
>>> There is nothing great about it either. You can get a full size Impala
>>> will get 19 mpg in the city and 29 on the highway (6 cyl, 3.5 L,
>>> Automatic 4-spd). Even with the 5.3 L V8 you'll get 16 mpg city and 24
>>> mpg highway.
>>>
>>> There is a reason that many people are getting fed up with seeing gas
>>> guzzling full size SUV's on the road.
>>
>> Yeah, it's called jealousy.
>
>
> Only someone with a small penis would say it's jealousy.

Only a queer like you would even be thinking about the size of my penis.

"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0a7bd5e3-def6-4de1-91b1-d4b5d1245147@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 12, 10:41 am, "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote:
> "Jeff Findley" <jeff.find...@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e5a7a$4942830f$927a2cda$5977@FUSE.NET...
>
>
>
> > "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
> >news:s7-dnVXzwO9CO9zUnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> >> Actually, the Escalade Hybrid get's 20 MPG city, and 21 MPG highway.
> >> There's nothing wrong with that. It even does better then the Mini
> >> Cooper S, and BMW X3. I'm not saying I would buy one, as I don't think
> >> they are attractive, but you can't complain about those kind of MPG
> >> figures for such a huge vehicle.
>
> > There is nothing great about it either. You can get a full size Impala
> > will get 19 mpg in the city and 29 on the highway (6 cyl, 3.5 L,
> > Automatic
> > 4-spd). Even with the 5.3 L V8 you'll get 16 mpg city and 24 mpg
> > highway.
>
> Very true, but there is a huge difference between an Impala, and an
> Escalade, Yukon, or Tahoe.

Nor does the Impala actually get over 20 MPG in real world driving.
The only time I've ever gotten decent mileage is on a long highway
trip with little to no other traffic - any minor speed fluctuations
drive the gas mileage into the crapper. If you can kick it up to 70,
set the cruise control, and leave it there for an hour or two it will
actually get decent mileage. that's not exactly a real world
condition though.
===========================================

I don't think anyone in my family has one of the new Impala's with either
the 3.5L of 5.3L, but they all claim to get very good MPG out of the 3400
(usually 30+) and the 3800 in the 2000+2005(?) editions.

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qgw0l.26274$v37.20680@newsfe01.iad...
> "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
> news:IKidnasC5uS4G9_UnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> "Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
>> news:e5a7a$4942830f$927a2cda$5977@FUSE.NET...
>>>
>>> "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
>>> news:s7-dnVXzwO9CO9zUnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> Actually, the Escalade Hybrid get's 20 MPG city, and 21 MPG highway.
>>>> There's nothing wrong with that. It even does better then the Mini
>>>> Cooper S, and BMW X3. I'm not saying I would buy one, as I don't think
>>>> they are attractive, but you can't complain about those kind of MPG
>>>> figures for such a huge vehicle.
>>>
>>> There is nothing great about it either. You can get a full size Impala
>>> will get 19 mpg in the city and 29 on the highway (6 cyl, 3.5 L,
>>> Automatic 4-spd). Even with the 5.3 L V8 you'll get 16 mpg city and 24
>>> mpg highway.
>>
>> Very true, but there is a huge difference between an Impala, and an
>> Escalade, Yukon, or Tahoe.
>>
>>> There is a reason that many people are getting fed up with seeing gas
>>> guzzling full size SUV's on the road. They're even worse than gas
>>> guzzling full size four door sedans!
>>
>> I don't own an SUV, but I have no problem with them. People should be
>> allowed to drive what they want. I drive a huge Bonneville. It's a
>> 1997, has a supercharger, and is an awesome car. Even with 240
>> horsepower, it still get's 29-30 MPG on the highway, and that car was
>> built 11 years ago. I don't think the government should be allowed to
>> tell people what they can and can not drive. If someone drives a Prius,
>> they shouldn't bitch that other people have bigger cars, and it scares
>> them on the highway. You knew bigger vehicles existed when you bought it.
>> I'm not saying that the auto makers don't need to work on those MPG
>> figures for big SUV's, but I don't think we have the right to tell people
>> they can't have them.
>>
>
> You're missing something here: There is a fixed percentage of marginally
> competent drivers. Never mind the number, because nobody will agree on it.
> Nothing will ever change the percentage, whatever the number is.

Then those "marginally competent drivers" need to take the bus.

> Now, put those marginally competent drivers into vehicles which kill more
> easily than others*, and you've compounded the problem of having those
> drivers on the road to begin with.

What about the marginally competent drivers piloting transport trucks? Are
we going to take them off the roads too?

> This leads to a question: Why develop more deadly vehicles with better
> mileage, since that'll just entice more people to buy them?

Who is to say who is a good driver, and who isn't? You don't know me, you
don't know how I drive. If I am a good driver, why shouldn't I be able to
get a Yukon that get's good MPG?

> *Not debatable without denying the laws of physics. Thanks for not
> debating it.

See above.

"Hairy" <hairy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6qfj05FbokvaU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Miw0l.26275$v37.448@newsfe01.iad...
>> "Hairy" <hairy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:6qfh3tFccfrrU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
>>> news:e5a7a$4942830f$927a2cda$5977@FUSE.NET...
>>>>
>>>> "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
>>>> news:s7-dnVXzwO9CO9zUnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>> Actually, the Escalade Hybrid get's 20 MPG city, and 21 MPG highway.
>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that. It even does better then the Mini
>>>>> Cooper S, and BMW X3. I'm not saying I would buy one, as I don't
>>>>> think they are attractive, but you can't complain about those kind of
>>>>> MPG figures for such a huge vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> There is nothing great about it either. You can get a full size Impala
>>>> will get 19 mpg in the city and 29 on the highway (6 cyl, 3.5 L,
>>>> Automatic 4-spd). Even with the 5.3 L V8 you'll get 16 mpg city and 24
>>>> mpg highway.
>>>>
>>>> There is a reason that many people are getting fed up with seeing gas
>>>> guzzling full size SUV's on the road.
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's called jealousy.
>>
>>
>> Only someone with a small penis would say it's jealousy.
>
> Only a queer like you would even be thinking about the size of my penis.
>

Not me. You revealed the information.

"80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
news:7smdnTfqCfwwCt_UnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@giganews.com ...
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:qgw0l.26274$v37.20680@newsfe01.iad...
>> "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
>> news:IKidnasC5uS4G9_UnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>> "Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
>>> news:e5a7a$4942830f$927a2cda$5977@FUSE.NET...
>>>>
>>>> "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
>>>> news:s7-dnVXzwO9CO9zUnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>> Actually, the Escalade Hybrid get's 20 MPG city, and 21 MPG highway.
>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that. It even does better then the Mini
>>>>> Cooper S, and BMW X3. I'm not saying I would buy one, as I don't
>>>>> think they are attractive, but you can't complain about those kind of
>>>>> MPG figures for such a huge vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> There is nothing great about it either. You can get a full size Impala
>>>> will get 19 mpg in the city and 29 on the highway (6 cyl, 3.5 L,
>>>> Automatic 4-spd). Even with the 5.3 L V8 you'll get 16 mpg city and 24
>>>> mpg highway.
>>>
>>> Very true, but there is a huge difference between an Impala, and an
>>> Escalade, Yukon, or Tahoe.
>>>
>>>> There is a reason that many people are getting fed up with seeing gas
>>>> guzzling full size SUV's on the road. They're even worse than gas
>>>> guzzling full size four door sedans!
>>>
>>> I don't own an SUV, but I have no problem with them. People should be
>>> allowed to drive what they want. I drive a huge Bonneville. It's a
>>> 1997, has a supercharger, and is an awesome car. Even with 240
>>> horsepower, it still get's 29-30 MPG on the highway, and that car was
>>> built 11 years ago. I don't think the government should be allowed to
>>> tell people what they can and can not drive. If someone drives a Prius,
>>> they shouldn't bitch that other people have bigger cars, and it scares
>>> them on the highway. You knew bigger vehicles existed when you bought
>>> it. I'm not saying that the auto makers don't need to work on those MPG
>>> figures for big SUV's, but I don't think we have the right to tell
>>> people they can't have them.
>>>
>>
>> You're missing something here: There is a fixed percentage of marginally
>> competent drivers. Never mind the number, because nobody will agree on
>> it. Nothing will ever change the percentage, whatever the number is.
>
> Then those "marginally competent drivers" need to take the bus.
>

That will never happen. If we tested drivers correctly, there would be an
uproar about it. We're stuck with the assortment of drivers we have now.


>> Now, put those marginally competent drivers into vehicles which kill more
>> easily than others*, and you've compounded the problem of having those
>> drivers on the road to begin with.
>
> What about the marginally competent drivers piloting transport trucks?
> Are we going to take them off the roads too?
>

See above. Can't do anything about it. Actually, that's wrong. The cops
could be ordered to stop ticketing people for bullshit like 71 in a 65 zone,
and focus on things which require using their brains instead of machines.
But, that's just a dream.



>> This leads to a question: Why develop more deadly vehicles with better
>> mileage, since that'll just entice more people to buy them?
>
> Who is to say who is a good driver, and who isn't? You don't know me, you
> don't know how I drive.

No, but if I followed you around for 10 minutes, I could stick a label on
you easily, and it would be 100% accurate.


> If I am a good driver, why shouldn't I be able to get a Yukon that get's
> good MPG?


You *should* be able to drive one if you want to and you're a safe driver.
At this point, it's a moot question, though.

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Miw0l.26275$v37.448@newsfe01.iad...
> "Hairy" <hairy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6qfh3tFccfrrU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
>> news:e5a7a$4942830f$927a2cda$5977@FUSE.NET...
>>>
>>> "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
>>> news:s7-dnVXzwO9CO9zUnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> Actually, the Escalade Hybrid get's 20 MPG city, and 21 MPG highway.
>>>> There's nothing wrong with that. It even does better then the Mini
>>>> Cooper S, and BMW X3. I'm not saying I would buy one, as I don't think
>>>> they are attractive, but you can't complain about those kind of MPG
>>>> figures for such a huge vehicle.
>>>
>>> There is nothing great about it either. You can get a full size Impala
>>> will get 19 mpg in the city and 29 on the highway (6 cyl, 3.5 L,
>>> Automatic 4-spd). Even with the 5.3 L V8 you'll get 16 mpg city and 24
>>> mpg highway.
>>>
>>> There is a reason that many people are getting fed up with seeing gas
>>> guzzling full size SUV's on the road.
>>
>> Yeah, it's called jealousy.
>
>
> Only someone with a small penis would say it's jealousy.

Grow the hell up. Some people actually take pride in what they drive. They
are proud of the way it looks. Obviously this does not apply to Toyota
owners, as they make the most boring vehicles in the world. I almost fall
asleep everytime I see one. Someday, if you are really good, you might own
a vehicle that you are proud to show to your family and friends.

"80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
newsJGdnVPQW_zYB9_UnZ2dnUVZ_sfinZ2d@giganews.com ...
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Miw0l.26275$v37.448@newsfe01.iad...
>> "Hairy" <hairy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:6qfh3tFccfrrU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
>>> news:e5a7a$4942830f$927a2cda$5977@FUSE.NET...
>>>>
>>>> "80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
>>>> news:s7-dnVXzwO9CO9zUnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>> Actually, the Escalade Hybrid get's 20 MPG city, and 21 MPG highway.
>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that. It even does better then the Mini
>>>>> Cooper S, and BMW X3. I'm not saying I would buy one, as I don't
>>>>> think they are attractive, but you can't complain about those kind of
>>>>> MPG figures for such a huge vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> There is nothing great about it either. You can get a full size Impala
>>>> will get 19 mpg in the city and 29 on the highway (6 cyl, 3.5 L,
>>>> Automatic 4-spd). Even with the 5.3 L V8 you'll get 16 mpg city and 24
>>>> mpg highway.
>>>>
>>>> There is a reason that many people are getting fed up with seeing gas
>>>> guzzling full size SUV's on the road.
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's called jealousy.
>>
>>
>> Only someone with a small penis would say it's jealousy.
>
> Grow the hell up. Some people actually take pride in what they drive.
> They are proud of the way it looks. Obviously this does not apply to
> Toyota owners, as they make the most boring vehicles in the world. I
> almost fall asleep everytime I see one. Someday, if you are really good,
> you might own a vehicle that you are proud to show to your family and
> friends.
>

Valid response, but it does nothing to address the jealousy issue. If I hit
the lottery tomorrow, I still wouldn't be driving around in a gigantic
vehicle unless it somehow addressed a mechanical need (towing, off-road,
lots of passengers).

Pride? In what? You had no hand in building the car you drive unless you
work for the manufacturer. Pride in the wax job?