Honda Car Forum

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <o3l0k4lh1qe5ucvnn4i1p1kp93tq5p94ga@4ax.com>,
> me <noemail@nothere.com> wrote:
>
>> For all you GM defenders who refuse to admit that GM screwed
>> themselves by refusing to recognize vehicle trends and build less
>> SUV's and trucks and invest in other production; by building low
>> quality cars; by building cars no one wants; and by generally
>> mismanaging the company - here is it from the horse's mouth (or more
>> accurately, horse's ass in the case of GM):
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081208/us_nm/us_gm_ad
>>
>> "... we acknowledge we have disappointed you," the ad said. "At times
>> we violated your trust by letting our quality fall below industry
>> standards and our designs became lackluster."
>>
>> The unsigned open letter, entitled "GM's Commitment to the American
>> People" ran in the trade journal Automotive News, which is widely read
>> by industry executives, lobbyists and other insiders.
>>
>> In the ad, GM admits to other strategic missteps analysts and critics
>> have said hastened its recent decline.
>>
>> "We have proliferated our brands and dealer network to the point where
>> we lost adequate focus on the core U.S. market," the ad said. "We also
>> biased our product mix toward pick-up trucks and SUVs."
>
> blah, blah, blah.
>
> Here's the ad they WANTED to run:
>
> http://www.buffalobeast.com/133/bigthree.jpg


yup, that's right on! washington d.c. - no place else on earth where
"strategic investments" can get a 1000:1 return ratio.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:10:18 -0500, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:

>So where is Toyota's apology letter for some of their mistakes? How
>about an admission they screwed up something on thousands of engines
>that lead many people to have sludge problems, or that the monster
>Tundra is a huge mistake. Or that they have built some of the most
>boring vehicles ever conceived. How about an apology for the older
>4Runners that had one of the highest death rate for any vehicle ever
>sold in the US?
>
>Ed

Hey, don't expect me to defend Toyota. I've had my differences with
them, right up to the corporate attorneys. But, I think the key point
would be that this post is about GM, because GM is the one that is (or
should be, lacking an infusion of money from your paycheck) going into
bankruptcy. That's due to gross mis-management on their part.

Despite their mismanagement being pointed out repeatedly by people
from across the business spectrum for decades, they've stuck to their
pig headed approach and ignored everyone who did not agree. Now they
are reaping the rewards.

Based on what you post everyday, YOU are obviously the most clever guy in
the US. LOL


"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3eae2c5d-64cc-489f-94e2-0b9abcacae29@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On 11 Dec, 05:42, coachros...@hotmail.com wrote:


The best thing is to let them go into C11
Anything else is just plain stupid.
What else is there to be expected form Bush.
The question is if Bush is the most clever guy in the US?

The Chevy hybrid is the Malibu and unlike the Pruis it does not cost more
than a gasoline powered car of the same size.

Funny thing. when I was young ALL of the 'busses' were electric. We called
them trolleys and the were 'plugged in' all the time.


"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f74c2448-df53-4160-803f-bcaf9f8daa7e@r37g2000prr.googlegroups.com...
On 11 Dec, 12:33, "Jeff Findley" <jeff.find...@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote:
> "Nate Nagel" <njna...@roosters.net> wrote in message
>
> news:ghpmqu0mhk@news6.newsguy.com...
>
> > I heard on the radio today that Wagoner himself had apologized before
> > Congress for not investing more in electric/hybrid technologies. That
> > pisses me off... as much as I've been disappointed in GM they have done
> > more than any other company (possible exceptions Honda and Toyota, but
> > I'd
> > still give the edge to GM) to try to make electric cars practical.
>
> Besides a few of their large SUV's, what cars do GM sell that are hybrids?
>
> I will agree that when (if?) the Volt comes out that it ought to sell very
> well and will be a much needed improvement over the existing Japanese
> hybrids which rely far too much on their gas engines. If GM could have
> released the Volt earlier this year, when gas was over $4 per gallong,
> they
> would have sold every single one they rolled off the production line. A
> car
> that used zero gas for my commute to/from work, but still has a gas engine
> for long distance traveling, would be freaking nirvana!
>
> Jeff
> --
> "Many things that were acceptable in 1958 are no longer acceptable today.
> My own standards have changed too." -- Freeman Dyson

There are a lot of electrical cars coming.
The dependency on oil is going down.
Even if some places need to burn somthing to create electicity it
needs not be oil.
It can be coal, there are also several other methods of creating
electricity in powerplants.

Chevy Volt: The future is electrifying.
The Extended-Range Electric Vehicle that is redefining the automotive
world is no longer just a rumor. In fact, its propulsion system is so
revolutionary, it's unlike any other vehicle or electric car that's
ever been introduced. And we're making this remarkable vision a
reality, so that one day you'll have the freedom to drive gas-free.

Chevy Volt is designed to move more than 75 percent of America's daily
commuters without a single drop of gas.(2) That means for someone who
drives less than 40 miles a day, Chevy Volt will use zero gasoline and
produce zero emissions.(1)

Unlike traditional electric cars, Chevy Volt has a revolutionary
propulsion system that takes you beyond the power of the battery. It
will use a lithium-ion battery with a gasoline-powered, range-
extending engine that drives a generator to provide electric power
when you drive beyond the 40-mile battery range.

Chevy Volt. Fully charged 2010.
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/

http://venturebeat.com/2008/01/10/27...over-the-road/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_electric_vehicle

At 2008 fuel prices, battery powered buses are more economical than
diesel or gasoline powered buses. The additional cost of the batteries
is made up for[citation needed] by the low operating cost in the first
half of the typical million to two million mile (three million
kilometer) life of the bus.
Chattanooga, Tennessee operates nine free (no fares) electric buses,
which have been in operation since 1992 and have carried 11.3 million
passengers and covered a distance of 1.9 million miles. They were made
locally by Advanced Vehicle Systems. Two of these buses were used for
the 1996 Atlanta Olympics.[3][4]
Wrightbus has a new a hybrid-electric driveline for the StreetCar RTV
which has been developed in conjunction with the ISE Corporation of
California and incorporates Siemens ELFA traction components and a
Cummins ISL engine. The chassis is built to Wright Group
specifications by Swiss trolleybus specialists Carosserie Hess and is
powered by Valence Technology lithium phosphate batteries .
Beginning in the summer of 2000, Hong Kong airport began operating a
16-passenger Mitsubishi Rosa electric shuttle bus, and in the fall of
2000, New York City began testing a 66 passenger battery powered
school bus, an all electric version of the Blue-Bird TC2000.[5] A
similar bus was operated in Napa Valley, California for 14 months
ending in April, 2004.[6]
The 2008 Beijing Olympics used a fleet of 50 electric buses, which
have a range of 130 km (81 mi) with the air conditioning on. They use
Lithium-ion batteries, and consume about 1 kWh/mile. The buses were
designed by the Beijing Institute of Technology and built by the
Jinghua Coach Co. Ltd.[7] The batteries are replaced with fully
charged ones at the recharging station to allow 24 hour operation of
the buses.[8]

The major reason is Americans do not want to BUY small and midget cars.
Even those that can make small and midget cars off shore, for far less, do
not sell many of them in the US. The best selling cars are mid-size cars
including the number one selling car the Camry and the best selling vehicles
are TRUCKS not cars.

The imports did exactly the same thing domestics were doing. They were
offering ever larger and more powerful cars and trucks during the same time
period. Their small cars today are bigger and more powerful than the 'big'
cars just ten years ago. If one doubts that, compare a sixties Toyota or
Honda to what the sell today.

The only time Americans bought small cars was when the were forced to by
them by the government when Carter cause the gas supply problems. Once
Reagan did the right thing and let the market decide, they return to buying
the larger saver cars they want to buy.

Where the hell does the government, in a free society, get the right to tell
manufactures what they must produce and to tell the buyer what they must
buy, in any event?


"Jeff" <jeff.utz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d68db791-0332-49e5-bb57-fadecd238c6a@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 10, 7:27 pm, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> Oscar Finkleheimer wrote:
> > In article <o3l0k4lh1qe5ucvnn4i1p1kp93tq5p9...@4ax.com>,

There is far more than GM should have done besides trying to make
electric cars practical. They should have figured out cost-efficient
ways to make small cars (instead of importing them from Korea),
implemented ways to make cars more efficient, make entry level cars
that consumers would want and that would last, and improved its
manufacturing capability to be more flexible.

Jeff
> --
> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Don't you know Toyota never makes mistakes for which they would need to
admit?

I heard the guy that convene Toyota to make a full size pickup was thinking
of killing himself. LOL


"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:49411145$1@kcnews01...
> So where is Toyota's apology letter for some of their mistakes? How about
> an admission they screwed up something on thousands of engines that lead
> many people to have sludge problems, or that the monster Tundra is a huge
> mistake. Or that they have built some of the most boring vehicles ever
> conceived. How about an apology for the older 4Runners that had one of the
> highest death rate for any vehicle ever sold in the US?
>
> Ed
>
> "me" <noemail@nothere.com> wrote in message
> news3l0k4lh1qe5ucvnn4i1p1kp93tq5p94ga@4ax.com...
>> For all you GM defenders who refuse to admit that GM screwed
>> themselves by refusing to recognize vehicle trends and build less
>> SUV's and trucks and invest in other production; by building low
>> quality cars; by building cars no one wants; and by generally
>> mismanaging the company - here is it from the horse's mouth (or more
>> accurately, horse's ass in the case of GM):
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081208/us_nm/us_gm_ad
>>
>> "... we acknowledge we have disappointed you," the ad said. "At times
>> we violated your trust by letting our quality fall below industry
>> standards and our designs became lackluster."
>>
>> The unsigned open letter, entitled "GM's Commitment to the American
>> People" ran in the trade journal Automotive News, which is widely read
>> by industry executives, lobbyists and other insiders.
>>
>> In the ad, GM admits to other strategic missteps analysts and critics
>> have said hastened its recent decline.
>>
>> "We have proliferated our brands and dealer network to the point where
>> we lost adequate focus on the core U.S. market," the ad said. "We also
>> biased our product mix toward pick-up trucks and SUVs."
>>
>>
>

Elmo P. Shagnasty turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

> In article <3010680.NAFfiUZW5D@perfectreign.com>,
> PerfectReign <theperfectreign@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Something wrong with SUV's and trucks?
>>
>> I'd rather have one of them than a car.
>>
>> I drove a compact Maxima for a few years. Way too small.
>
> But even though a modern minivan is WAY larger inside than any SUV with
> the same exterior dimensions, I bet you'd NEVER drive one of those.

Um, yes.

I actually traded in my 4x4 '95 GMC Jimmy for a Kia Sedona and drove that
for four years. (I traded back and forth with my wife for the Maxima
depending on needs.)

Here's a picture of us off-roading in Sedona, AZ in the Sedona.

http://www.perfectreign.com/files/im...SCF10941_0.JPG


Good car, overall. However, there are a few problems with the minivan in
general.

1. They're "mini" - after all, my Sedona was roughly the same size as the
Maxima. I always felt a bit constrained in the front seat. The Jimmy
actually had more room in the front.

2. They're noisy. You can't have a box on wheels - with as much floor space
as they do next to the road - and expect a quiet ride.

3. They get crap gas mileage. My 3.5L V6 Sedona with 200 HP got about the
same mileage as my 5.3L V8 Avalanche does with 315 HP. I would regularly
get 16-20 MPG on the car. I get 17-21 on the Avalanche, and it weighs 1,000
lbs. more.

4. They are FWD. I can't tell you how annoying it is to drive a FWD car.
That's my only complaint about my wife's car. (She has a Saturn Vue.) It is
just - erm - wierd, driving a FWD car, because the dynamics are all wrong.




>
> Size? Â*No, it's not about size. Â*Usefuleness? Â*No, it's not about
> usefulness. Â*It's about....image. Â*Gotta have that SUV or else people
> will think you're gay, right?

What the **** planet are you from? A car is transportation, that's it. It
is not "image" unless you have $1M to drop on a Ferrari or Bugatti.

I bought the minivan because I thought it would be more useful than an SUV.
I was wrong. I can pack way more stuff into the truck than in the minivan
and not compromise comfort. I can also tow more and go more places in the
truck.


Oh, here we are over thanksgiving in a slightly more remote place in Sedona
than we were in the Minivan.

http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/20...edona_1024.jpg




--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it. - Dee
Hock

In article <tcKdnYX9q7Rl79zUnZ2dnUVZ_q_inZ2d@ptd.net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

> The major reason is Americans do not want to BUY small and midget cars.

Tell that to the incredibly fat people I see squeezing themselves into
Honda Fits and Chevy Aveos.

It's a huge trend. Go figure.

Then I see this tiny woman driving her Suburban...

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:07:15 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>The only time Americans bought small cars was when the were forced to by
>them by the government when Carter cause the gas supply problems.

Nonsense. Americans started buying smaller, better handling, more fun
to drive, better mileage cars in the late 1960s because they wanted
them. There was no gas crunch at the time. The only thing American
cars had going for them was v8 power in a straight line.

> Once
>Reagan did the right thing and let the market decide, they return to buying
>the larger saver cars they want to buy.

No, they didn't. Maybe a few swing votes bought smaller cars
specifically for mileage reasons and then swung back. Most didn't.

>Where the hell does the government, in a free society, get the right to tell
>manufactures what they must produce and to tell the buyer what they must
>buy, in any event?

Who is telling anyone what to produce or buy? The only exception I see
is if Gm and Chrysler want to borrow money - then the lender can
dictate any terms s/he wants to insure his investment.

"Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
news:473df$49410894$927a2cda$30709@FUSE.NET...
>
> "Nate Nagel" <njnagel@roosters.net> wrote in message
> news:ghpmqu0mhk@news6.newsguy.com...
>> I heard on the radio today that Wagoner himself had apologized before
>> Congress for not investing more in electric/hybrid technologies. That
>> pisses me off... as much as I've been disappointed in GM they have done
>> more than any other company (possible exceptions Honda and Toyota, but
>> I'd still give the edge to GM) to try to make electric cars practical.
>
> Besides a few of their large SUV's, what cars do GM sell that are hybrids?

GM has more Hybrid vehicles they any other auto manufacture. Chevy Tahoe,
GMC Yukon, Chevy Malibu, Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra, Saturn Aura, Saturn
Vue, and the Caddy Escalade.