Honda Car Forum

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:70e%k.2449$jZ1.1259@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
> C. E. White wrote:
>
>> Got any real statistics that will allow me (or anyone) to do this?
>
> Here it is again. Feel free to make up excuses as to why this data
> is wrong.
>
> "http://www.desrosiers.ca/2007%20Update/Documents%20and%20Reports/2007%20OBS/Trends%20in%20Vehicle%20Longevity.pdf"

I assume the data is not "wrong" but it is likely to be misused or
misinterpreted, or interpreted to fit the writers biases. The author
had a point of view, he presented the data in a manner to support his
point of view. Without a lot more information, it is hard to refute
his conclusions. I do see a few things I don't like:

1) The data is for Canada
2) I have no idea of the statistics involved - seeing more of the raw
data would have helped.
3) How are they factoring out cars destroyed in accidents? If they
aren't, then do you think no one in Canada totaled a 2004 model year
import car during the first two years of it life? Or maybe people
don't wreck imports in Canada.
4) In one chart they lump Ford, GM, and Chrysler into one group and
all imports into another. This makes it impossible to know what
exactly they are telling me. Are Toyota's better than Fords? Can't
tell from this grouping. In another chart they list survival rates for
older vehicles, but again, without the raw numbers and some
statistical analysis, it is hard to know what it really means.
According to the data provided 98.7% of all Porsche sold 11 to 15
years ago have survived (whatever than means), versus "only" 78.2% of
all Toyota sold in the same time period. Do you think this means
Porsches are more reliable than Toyotas (I certainly don't). Do you
really think Lincolns are a lot more reliable than Fords or Mercurys?
I don't, but this data suggests they are.
5) No idea on relative usage of the vehicles. Do you assume all
vehicles are treated identically? Or is it possible that import owners
are better (or worse) at maintaining vehicles and/or that import
owners are easier (or harder) on vehicles than domestic vehicle
owners, or that import owners are more (or less likely) to hold on to
vehicles for personal reasons that have nothing to do with actual
(versus perceived) reliability? I think the chart that shows that
Porsches are the longest surviving vehicles should answer this
question for you.
6) How about the cost of keeping something for more than 10 years?
7) How about number of miles driven?

I've only kept a few vehicles for as long as 11 years. None were
imports. My Sister kept her last Honda for 11 years. It still moved
when she sold it, and that is about the best thing I can say for it. I
am more interested in the dependability of cars I want. I am certain I
do not want an 11 to 20 year old Toyota of any type. I lived through
one 80's vintage Toyota. For all I know it is still on the road
somewhere. All I can say is after 5 years and 50k miles, I was happy
to see it go.

Ed

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:39:11 -0500, "Marko" <trakp@army.mil> wrote:

>
>"AJL" <nomail@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message
>newsrnoj4d31qcb74t6u0ehli4gep3u79893l@4ax.com.. .
>> "Marko" <trakp@army.mil> wrote:
>>
>>>"AJL" wrote:
>>
>>>> My Chevy Suburban was made in Mexico. My Honda was made in the USA.
>>>> Both have parts made all over the world. What exactly is an American
>>>> car?
>>
>>>Honda is japanese company registered in Japan...
>>
>> So when Chrysler was a German company registered in Germany it wasn't
>> an American car?
>
>Germany owned a large share of Chrysler but I also questioned if it was
>still American. My understanding was Chrysler was still a registered entity
>in the US.
>>
As is (TMMC) Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada Inc. in Canada. The
new RAV 4 line just opened in Woodstock (where HINO division of Toyota
also builds trucks.

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:58:58 -0500, "Marko" <trakp@army.mil> wrote:

>
><edspyhill01@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:c7eea143-e6c2-41ec-803f-966c19681cce@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>On Dec 7, 2:30 pm, "Marko" <tr...@army.mil> wrote:
>> "Bentracer and Bentrider" <lowbi...@att.net> wrote in
>> messagenews:0b99d083-e891-49cc-aa92-d2a579ec07f5@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 7, 12:01 pm, buydomes...@usa.com wrote:
>>
>> > If all Americans bought American cars, the US economy would be rockin
>> > and rollin right now. Don't give me that stuff about Toyota and Honda
>> > manufacturing over here either. GM employs 130,000 in the United
>> > States. Toyota employs 30,000, Honda less than that. Most of the
>> > import jobs are just blue collar jobs also, where GM has over 50,000
>> > engineers. The Japanese automakers have brainwashed us into thinking
>> > that buying their car is an investment in this country. I say we buy
>> > from the Big Three and take our economy back.
>>
>> i would not mind buying american cars again only if they can produce
>> quality like Honda and Toyota
>> until they can they and their UNIONS can go and $$$$ themselfs.
>> they still have not learned from their own mistakes, they just keep
>> producing the same old SHIT.
>>
>> You mean the quality like my Moms old Toyota, so many problems even before
>> reacing 80k miles. Ended up selling it to the mechanic. Fit and finish
>> wise
>> it was no different from any other car of the day. This being the late
>> 80s.
>
>How many times did she have the oil changed, once, twice?
>
>Oh this wasn't about oil. This was such a mess the various dealer mechanics
>she went to couldn't fix it even though every time she left the lot they
>swore it was fixed. The car nickled and dimed her with the same problems
>over and over. It made me a believer that Japanese don't make supercars. My
>sister inlaw owned a mazda 626 in the early 90s and it went through 2
>transmissions before reaching 100k miles, not like she was racing it. She
>ended up getting rid of it and went out and bought another Mazda. Now how
>whack is that?


What year Toyota and name the problem. It was more likely a dealer
problem than a vehicle problem. I NEVER ran across a Toyota I couldn't
fix.

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 22:07:30 -0500, "Marko" <trakp@army.mil> wrote:

>
><clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
>news:hiooj41jtdogssg0vv1j9528msja7q2lgq@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:58:05 -0500, "Marko" <trakp@army.mil> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><edspyhill01@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:225c5947-dbe3-486c-9820-cd1727b16185@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>>On Dec 7, 1:48 pm, "Marko" <tr...@army.mil> wrote:
>>>> <buydomes...@usa.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:880a57a2-9f6e-4fd7-b631-0543baf7e436@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> > If all Americans bought American cars, the US economy would be rockin
>>>> > and rollin right now. Don't give me that stuff about Toyota and Honda
>>>> > manufacturing over here either. GM employs 130,000 in the United
>>>> > States. Toyota employs 30,000, Honda less than that. Most of the
>>>> > import jobs are just blue collar jobs also, where GM has over 50,000
>>>> > engineers. The Japanese automakers have brainwashed us into thinking
>>>> > that buying their car is an investment in this country. I say we buy
>>>> > from the Big Three and take our economy back.
>>>>
>>>> Import owner are traitors.
>>>
>>>And we support Al Qaeda and all world-wide terrorists too, right?
>>>Butthead. You must work directly or indirectly for an automaker.
>>>
>>>No..wrong asshole, I just try to buy American when possible. I try to keep
>>>as much of my money possible home. Instead of sending major profits half
>>>way
>>>around the globe.
>>
>>
>> Gee, mabee if there was "major profits" to be made by the American
>> manufacturers they couls make something Americans are EAGER to
>> buy??????
>?
>Wow, and I am still wondering what makes someone so eager to buy a Toyota
>Matrix but not a Pontiac Vibe? Its the same vehicle coming right off the
>same line. Consumer reports gave the Matrix higher ratings than the Vibe by
>2 different reviewers not knowing they were the same cars. Could it be a
>bias issue?
Anyone who has an sye in their head can tell they are the same
vehicle.


However, in one article (I can't remember which one) the Vibe did not
get the "best buy" because Pontiac chose to sell it for $1400 more
than the Matrix in the Canadian market, and the Matrix had more
content.

The difference between the Matrix and the Vibe is a LITTLE more than
the nameplate. Interior trim is a bit different too.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:01:25 -0800, buydomestic wrote:

> If all Americans bought American cars, the US economy would be rockin
> and rollin right now. Don't give me that stuff about Toyota and Honda
> manufacturing over here either. GM employs 130,000 in the United
> States. Toyota employs 30,000, Honda less than that. Most of the
> import jobs are just blue collar jobs also, where GM has over 50,000
> engineers. The Japanese automakers have brainwashed us into thinking
> that buying their car is an investment in this country. I say we buy
> from the Big Three and take our economy back.

You're absolutely right! Parts manufacturers would be cranked to capacity
replacing defective parts, Detriot would be cranked to capacity building
cars to replace the ones falling apart, and service centers would be
booked to the limit.

No thanks. American cars are too hit or miss for me. For every one that
runs fine there are 5 just like it needing constant repair.

Did you ever stop to think, if Detroit had some consistency they wouldn't
be in the mess they are now?

I had three Caravans (well, one Caravan and two Grand Voyagers). I'm
looking for another one. I like them. But, like the last one, I hope the
trannies were serviced by Chrysler dealers who knew enough to put in the
correct fluid. Either that or, like the one before it, had a Chrysler
rebuilt tranny put in 10,000 miles before I bought it. As long as the 3.3
liter engine doesn't have a broken rocker tower like the last one. Still
drove it 10,000 miles even though the engine sounded like it was going to
blow up any minute...

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/33.html

Rocker arms / rocker arm pedestal breakage

One problem - relatively common but still rare overall - with the 3.3 and 3.8 is rocker arm pedestal breakage.

John "Auto Tech" wrote,

Â* Â* "I honestly don't know of any way to prevent it from happening but I do know of a repair that can be done
'on the car' and it works without replacing the head. (To begin with it
needs to be understood that the head is "already ruined", the proper
repair procedure is to replace the entire head.)

Â* Â* That being said, this make shift repair has worked on 6 or 7 heads that I have seen with my own eyes. You
need to remove any existing threads from the broken pedestal (so a longer
bolt will pass through) and drill out the head below to make new threads.
The drilled hole WILL break through the head casting so the helicoil
installation needs to be precise. I don't recommend this head repair for
your average do-it-yourself person and if you have any doubts then fix it
right and replace the head.

Â* Â* Â* Â*1. Remove the rocker shaft and the broken tower.
Â* Â* Â* Â*2. Drill out any threads in the tower.
Â* Â* Â* Â*3. Drill out the head below the broken tower and install a
Â* Â* Â* Â*Heli-Coil in the head. Now you can install a longer bolt through
Â* Â* Â* Â*the rocker shaft and tower that will hold the entire assembly to
Â* Â* Â* Â*the head.



My LHS was a damn good car. It already had the subcarriage rework by the
time I got it:

http://www.alldata.com/TSB/12/941226dC.html

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...eType=Vehicles


For my 1995 Toyota Tercel:

Common Problems
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*
Recalls & TSBs
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*
Owner Reviews
Brakes Â*No common problems reported.
Drive Train Â*Â*Â*Â*No common problems reported.
Engine Â*No common problems reported.
Exhaust & Emissions Â*Â*Â*Â*No common problems reported.
Electrical & Lights Â*Â*Â*Â*No common problems reported.
Miscellaneous Â*Â*No common problems reported.
Suspension & Steering Â*Â*No common problems reported.
Heating & Air Conditioning Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*No common problems reported.
» Do you have something to add?
Recalls and Technical Service Bulletins for the 1995 Toyota Tercel
Body, Interior & Misc. Â*
Recalls:
None reported.
TSBs:
None reported.
Brakes Â*
Recalls:
None reported.
TSBs:
None reported.
Drive Train Â*Â*Â*Â*
Recalls:
None reported.
TSBs:
None reported.
Electrical & Lights Â*Â*Â*Â*
Recalls:

Â* Â* * EXTERIOR LIGHTING

TSBs:
None reported.
Engine Â*
Recalls:
None reported.
TSBs:
None reported.
Exhaust & Emissions Â*Â*Â*Â*
Recalls:
None reported.
TSBs:
None reported.
Heating & Air Conditioning Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*
Recalls:
None reported.
TSBs:
None reported.
Suspension & Steering Â*Â*
Recalls:
None reported.
TSBs:
None reported.
Recalls for the 1995 Toyota Tercel
Electrical & Lights: EXTERIOR LIGHTING
Campaign Number: 06E026000
Number of Vehicles Affected: 61,944
Model Years Affected: 1995, 1996, 1997
Date Owner Notified: 04/2006

Defect Summary: CERTAIN PRO-A MOTORS CORNER LAMPS, TURN SIGNALS, AND HEADLIGHTS SOLD AS
REPLACEMENT LAMPS FOR USE ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES LISTED ABOVE. SOME
COMBINATION LAMPS THAT ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH AMBER SIDE REFLECTORS FAIL TO
CONFORM TO FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD NO. 108, LAMPS,
REFLECTIVE DEVICES, AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT.

Consequence Summary: WITHOUT THE AMBER REFLECTORS, THE VEHICLE WILL BE POORLY ILLUMINATED,
POSSIBLY RESULTING IN A VEHICLE CRASH WITHOUT WARNING.

Corrective Summary: PRO-A MOTORS WILL NOTIFY OWNERS AND OFFER TO REPURCHASE THE LAMPS. THE RECALL
BEGAN ON APRIL 3, 2006. OWNERS MAY CONTACT PRO-A MOTORS AT 323-838-2988.

Recall Notes: THIS RECALL ONLY PERTAINS TO PRO-A MOTORS AFTERMARKET LAMPS
AND HAS NO RELATION TO ANY ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT INSTALLED ON THE LISTED
PASSENGER VEHICLES.FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE LAMP MODEL NUMBERS, CLICK
ON DOCUMENT SEARCH AND VIEW DOCUMENT TITLED "LAMP MODEL NUMBERS."CUSTOMERS
MAY CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION¿S VEHICLE
SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); OR GO TO
HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.



Not that this only applies to aftermarket replacement lighting. There was
one other TSB that I recall: the ground screw on the antenna comes loose
and causes static on AM. Wow.

I looked at an HHR before buying my Scion tC. Underpowered. Tried to get
one with a 171HP engine and 5-speed transmission. That was in 2006. I'm
still waiting for the dealer to call me back.

WHY WOULD I BUY A CAR I DON'T WANT?!?! If they HAD what I wanted, I would
have bought it!!!!

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 22:52:23 -0500, "Marko" <trakp@army.mil> wrote:

>
><edspyhill01@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:b4b6a509-3253-4e18-b170-c314c964152c@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>On Dec 7, 2:20 pm, "Marko" <tr...@army.mil> wrote:
>> <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:f381434e-8011-473f-b799-155a259eeb75@13g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 7, 1:07 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:01:25 -0800, buydomestic wrote:
>> > > If all Americans bought American cars, the US economy would be rockin
>> > > and rollin right now. Don't give me that stuff about Toyota and Honda
>> > > manufacturing over here either. GM employs 130,000 in the United
>> > > States. Toyota employs 30,000, Honda less than that. Most of the
>> > > import jobs are just blue collar jobs also, where GM has over 50,000
>> > > engineers. The Japanese automakers have brainwashed us into thinking
>> > > that buying their car is an investment in this country. I say we buy
>> > > from the Big Three and take our economy back.
>>
>> > idiot. "big three" are spending all their resources on ways to have
>> > their
>> > stuff made in china and mexico. why should we support that?
>>
>> > japanese manufacturers make their stuff in the good old usa, with usa
>> > components and usa workers. buy japanese instead.
>>
>> Amen! And don't forget Ford's manufacturing plant in Brazil.
>>
>> This is not about Brazil, its about America. Are from Brazil?
>
>Ford owns a plant in Brazil. Ford makes cars in South America to be
>sold in S.A. and Europe and the US. They don't make the cars here to
>be exported. Ford and the other US car makers are multinational
>corporations.
>
>Having a problem following the discussion?
>
>No not at all, Ford GM and Chrysler own plants all over the world. But they
>are still American companies. And your comment about japanese manufacturers
>make their stuff in the good old usa, with usa
>components and usa workers makes no sense. They import components from
>suppliers all over the world. So to say or even think that they make each
>separate part and component is just so ignorant even I am surprised.
>>
Betcha a new Corolla or my daughter's new Honda has more North
American parts than either my PT Cruizer, My wife's Mystique, or my
daughter's old Neon??

I know a LOT of companies locally make parts for both Honda and Toyota
- and I KNOW all the body parts are stamped inhouse at Toyota.. The
big presses stamp out both sides of the corolla - each side is ONE
PEICE from firewall to tail-light.

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 22:53:56 -0500, "Marko" <trakp@army.mil> wrote:

>
>"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:ghhlqs$n1m$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>
>> <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
>> news:dcloj4lghleifo0p773l3tjjp2ugjoq2t2@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), "edspyhill01@yahoo.com"
>>> <edspyhill01@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Dec 7, 1:07 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:01:25 -0800, buydomestic wrote:
>>>>> > If all Americans bought American cars, the US economy would be rockin
>>>>> > and rollin right now. Don't give me that stuff about Toyota and Honda
>>>>> > manufacturing over here either. GM employs 130,000 in the United
>>>>> > States. Toyota employs 30,000, Honda less than that. Most of the
>>>>> > import jobs are just blue collar jobs also, where GM has over 50,000
>>>>> > engineers. The Japanese automakers have brainwashed us into thinking
>>>>> > that buying their car is an investment in this country. I say we buy
>>>>> > from the Big Three and take our economy back.
>>>>>
>>>>> idiot. "big three" are spending all their resources on ways to have
>>>>> their
>>>>> stuff made in china and mexico. why should we support that?
>>>>>
>>>>> japanese manufacturers make their stuff in the good old usa, with usa
>>>>> components and usa workers. buy japanese instead.
>>>>
>>>>Amen! And don't forget Ford's manufacturing plant in Brazil.
>>>
>>> And ford has been building vehicles in Brazil since 1957.
>>> They have assembled in Argentina since 1919, and manufactured since
>>> 1959.
>>> They also manufacture cars in India, Thailand, and Australia.
>>>
>>> Ford currently also has plants in the UK, Turkey,Belgium, Spain and
>>> Sweden.
>>
>> And, all of those plants in all of those markets are doing well. Only
>> North American operations are in the dumper.
>>
>
>Yeh...no one else has a real problem with them except a segment of
>Americans.
>>
>>
because no-one else can buy an "american" Ford? A lot of the "EURO"
Ford stuff would make good "American" cars - but they are neither
built nor available here.
>>
>>
>>

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:25:33 -0500, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:

>
>"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>news:70e%k.2449$jZ1.1259@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com.. .
>> C. E. White wrote:
>>
>>> Got any real statistics that will allow me (or anyone) to do this?
>>
>> Here it is again. Feel free to make up excuses as to why this data
>> is wrong.
>>
>> "http://www.desrosiers.ca/2007%20Update/Documents%20and%20Reports/2007%20OBS/Trends%20in%20Vehicle%20Longevity.pdf"
>
>I assume the data is not "wrong" but it is likely to be misused or
>misinterpreted, or interpreted to fit the writers biases. The author
>had a point of view, he presented the data in a manner to support his
>point of view. Without a lot more information, it is hard to refute
>his conclusions. I do see a few things I don't like:
>
(snipped analysis)

You make some good points, but it is what it is.
The writer seemed fair to me.
I would like the raw data too, but I don't have it.
The biggest reason I see for the difference in longevity is something
the writer mentioned - initial price and resale value.
Both are market driven and influenced greatly by perceptions.
They don't always reflect reality, but sometimes they do.
SMS has written about how it is sometimes better to buy a new Toyota
because a year-old model can cost as much.
That doesn't seem like it would be true, but apparently it is.
There is no measuring how different makes are maintained, but
it is fairly obvious that more care will be taken when there is more
value. It's a chicken/egg proposition in proving which is first.
So I'll go with the available "data" here, at least until I see
something that contradicts it.
Personal experience not clouded by "perception" is a different matter.
That's why I make out like a bandit buying used GM cars.

--Vic

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:10:20 -0500, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:

>
>"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>news:aib%k.9187$Ei5.5106@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com.. .
>> Cathy F. wrote:
>>
>>> I say we buy what is the best, most economical, most intelligent
>>> buy. The American automakers have screwed up time & again; they've
>>> become mired in their own mud. Problem is... the mud's
>>> splattering.
>>
>> The recession is going to force even more people to do what you
>> suggest. How many people will choose a vehicle that will last 5
>> years versus one that will last 10 years? Compare how many 10-15
>> year old Civics, Corollas, Accords, and Camrys are still on the road
>> to any of the big 3's similar sized vehicles.
>
>Got any real statistics that will allow me (or anyone) to do this?
>From what I see on the local central NC roads, old domestic cars far
>out number old Toyotas and Hondas, but that is just the way I see
>things. Personal experience leads me to believe, given similar
>maintenance and driven in similar manners, domestic cars will far
>outlast Japanese cars. But that is just based on my personal
>experience and I have no data to back it up.

Well, in NC BIG American cars outsold imports over the last 15 years -
and BIG cars is one thing the Americans have done (relatively) well.

Try to find an early ford Escort on the road? I'm talking the first
generation escort from North America.
How about a Chevy Monza, Vega, or Chevette, or a Buick SkyHawk?
How about an "Ominous Omni" or "Horendous Horizon"

HUndreds of thousands sold - allmost all now scrapped.
>
>Just this morning I was behind a Generation 2 Camry and was amazed by
>how nice it looked. Most old Camrys look like s*&t. This one had a
>temporary license tag and an out of state dealer logo on the trunk
>lid. I suspect it had been repainted (it was two tone, with the lower
>half silver - never saw one with a paint job like that before). And
>amazingly, it wasn't even smoking. It was a rare sight. I am more
>used to old Toyotas like the ones my neighbors own - faded paint, and
>smoking on start-up.

TwoTone silver and grey was a COMMON pain job on the early Camry up
here in Canada. Several other 2 tone treatments as well.
>
>> The Big 3 are unwilling to take steps to restore confidence in their
>> products. Look what VW and Hyundai did when their was the perception
>> of quality issues with their products; they offered extra-long
>> warranties on the power train.
>
>Geez, why would I want to have the cost of crap hidden by bogus
>extended warranties. Even if they cover the failures, you still have
>the inconveniences of having the POS hauled into the shop and losing
>the use of the car for a day, or if it is a VW, weeks. No matter how
>mediocre I think Toyotas are, I'd pick one over a VW any day, unless
>the VW dealer delivers two for the price of one and guarantees one
>will always be available during a 150k warranty period.
>
>Ed
Diito for Mercedes and BMW (or Cadillac))

<clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:9gtqj4579doppv0ho9qdpjhfv4pjmvbg08@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:58:58 -0500, "Marko" <trakp@army.mil> wrote:
>
>>
>><edspyhill01@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:c7eea143-e6c2-41ec-803f-966c19681cce@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>On Dec 7, 2:30 pm, "Marko" <tr...@army.mil> wrote:
>>> "Bentracer and Bentrider" <lowbi...@att.net> wrote in
>>> messagenews:0b99d083-e891-49cc-aa92-d2a579ec07f5@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Dec 7, 12:01 pm, buydomes...@usa.com wrote:
>>>
>>> > If all Americans bought American cars, the US economy would be rockin
>>> > and rollin right now. Don't give me that stuff about Toyota and Honda
>>> > manufacturing over here either. GM employs 130,000 in the United
>>> > States. Toyota employs 30,000, Honda less than that. Most of the
>>> > import jobs are just blue collar jobs also, where GM has over 50,000
>>> > engineers. The Japanese automakers have brainwashed us into thinking
>>> > that buying their car is an investment in this country. I say we buy
>>> > from the Big Three and take our economy back.
>>>
>>> i would not mind buying american cars again only if they can produce
>>> quality like Honda and Toyota
>>> until they can they and their UNIONS can go and $$$$ themselfs.
>>> they still have not learned from their own mistakes, they just keep
>>> producing the same old SHIT.
>>>
>>> You mean the quality like my Moms old Toyota, so many problems even
>>> before
>>> reacing 80k miles. Ended up selling it to the mechanic. Fit and finish
>>> wise
>>> it was no different from any other car of the day. This being the late
>>> 80s.
>>
>>How many times did she have the oil changed, once, twice?
>>
>>Oh this wasn't about oil. This was such a mess the various dealer
>>mechanics
>>she went to couldn't fix it even though every time she left the lot they
>>swore it was fixed. The car nickled and dimed her with the same problems
>>over and over. It made me a believer that Japanese don't make supercars.
>>My
>>sister inlaw owned a mazda 626 in the early 90s and it went through 2
>>transmissions before reaching 100k miles, not like she was racing it. She
>>ended up getting rid of it and went out and bought another Mazda. Now how
>>whack is that?
>
>
> What year Toyota and name the problem. It was more likely a dealer
> problem than a vehicle problem. I NEVER ran across a Toyota I couldn't
> fix.

Where you usually get that problem is a GM dealer decided to take on Toyota
as a brand. In their service department, they try to do things the SAME OLD
WAY. That's how my Dad's valves in his 77 got cracked.

Sir Charles the Curmudgeon