Honda Car Forum

We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a
result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key,
and re-programming of all the keys. This is supposed to be a security
safeguard. Today, we found the long lost key. Just for my amusement,
I tried the key in the Accord to see what would happen. To my
surprise (and chagrin) The key would not only unlock the doors
(manually), but also start the engine! The only thing that was
disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all
that money if the key would still work to steal the car?
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In article <n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@4ax.com>,
Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote:

> We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a
> result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key,
> and re-programming of all the keys. This is supposed to be a security
> safeguard. Today, we found the long lost key. Just for my amusement,
> I tried the key in the Accord to see what would happen. To my
> surprise (and chagrin) The key would not only unlock the doors
> (manually), but also start the engine! The only thing that was
> disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all
> that money if the key would still work to steal the car?

The $100 got you a new key with the ignition security code copied over
from your remaining factory key, and the service guys added that new
key's remote transmitter to your car's remote unlock system. (In a
Honda, for remote lock/unlock you program the car's computer to
recognize the remote transmitter code; it can keep track of up to 4
remote transmitters that way.)

The charges break down like this:

* $X for the key itself
* $Y to copy your existing key's ignition security code over to the new
key
* $Z to have your remote unlock system recognize the transmitter code on
the new key

They did NOT reprogram your car's computer (and keys) with a new
ignition security code. That gets to be very expensive.

For the record: you can buy an appropriate remote transmitter off of
Ebay or keylessride.com and program it to your remote unlock system
yourself. But you asked them to do it, so they charged you $Z for that.

Back in 2002 when I bought a new Honda van, I wanted a couple more keys
made. It was $25 each for the key, cutting it, and copying the ignition
security code over. Nowadays it's probably $50, and another $50 for the
10 second dance of mating up the transmitter to the remote unlock system.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 15:26:25 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@4ax.com>,
> Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote:
>
>> We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a
>> result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key,
>> and re-programming of all the keys. This is supposed to be a security
>> safeguard. Today, we found the long lost key. Just for my amusement,
>> I tried the key in the Accord to see what would happen. To my
>> surprise (and chagrin) The key would not only unlock the doors
>> (manually), but also start the engine! The only thing that was
>> disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all
>> that money if the key would still work to steal the car?
>
>The $100 got you a new key with the ignition security code copied over
>from your remaining factory key, and the service guys added that new
>key's remote transmitter to your car's remote unlock system. (In a
>Honda, for remote lock/unlock you program the car's computer to
>recognize the remote transmitter code; it can keep track of up to 4
>remote transmitters that way.)
>
>The charges break down like this:
>
>* $X for the key itself
>* $Y to copy your existing key's ignition security code over to the new
>key
>* $Z to have your remote unlock system recognize the transmitter code on
>the new key
>
>They did NOT reprogram your car's computer (and keys) with a new
>ignition security code. That gets to be very expensive.
>
>For the record: you can buy an appropriate remote transmitter off of
>Ebay or keylessride.com and program it to your remote unlock system
>yourself. But you asked them to do it, so they charged you $Z for that.
>
>Back in 2002 when I bought a new Honda van, I wanted a couple more keys
>made. It was $25 each for the key, cutting it, and copying the ignition
>security code over. Nowadays it's probably $50, and another $50 for the
>10 second dance of mating up the transmitter to the remote unlock system.

They didn't just copy the remote unlock system to the new key. They
changed the remote program for both keys. The service advisor told me
they had to reprogram all the keys and the car. This is evidenced by
the fact that the old (previously lost) key will no longer unlock
remotely. Nothing works anymore on the remote buttons. They told me
at the time that if I ever found the lost key, I might as well throw
it away as it would be useless. Obviously not.

Something I haven't figured out yet is why, if they only copied the
ignition security and remote codes to the new key, did I get charged
for programming 3 keys, which included the valet key without any
remote buttons? It may be time to go back and have a talk with my
Honda dealer.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In article <mkoe24hacbir8h1rt59ph6mmvu1mmco77i@4ax.com>,
Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote:

> They didn't just copy the remote unlock system to the new key. They
> changed the remote program for both keys.

We're talking two different things here:

1) the ignition security code (lets you start the car)

2) the remote lock/unlock system

They *must* copy the ignition security code from your old key to the new
key. If you lose both your keys, then they must perform the costly
operation (much more than $100) of putting an all-new ignition security
code into the computer AND adding that to your keys.

The remote lock/unlock system, however, is far simpler. Each key has a
unique transmitter identity; it's a simple 10 second procedure (per key)
to match up the key to the lock/unlock receiver system inside the car.
You can do that.

If you needed a new key, it by definition must match up with the
ignition security system. But because your key also contains the remote
lock/unlock transmitter, that part of replacing your key also needed to
be done.

One key, but that key serves two purposes, therefore it needed two
things done to fully match it with the car.


> The service advisor told me
> they had to reprogram all the keys and the car.

Not for $100 they didn't. If you went in with one key and came out with
two, and both keys started the car and locked/unlocked the doors, and
all you paid was $100, they did not "reprogram all the keys and the car".

The fact that your lost key continued to start the car is the final
proof. They never touched the ignition security code itself, other than
copying it from your existing key into the new key. That's standard
procedure. Also standard procedure is the 10 second mating of the new
remote transmitter to the car.



> This is evidenced by
> the fact that the old (previously lost) key will no longer unlock
> remotely.

Not at all. I have four remotes programmed to my van, and sometimes one
of those will lose its "mind"--that is, the receiver in the car loses
its knowledge of the remote in question. I have to perform the 10
second procedure for that remote again. The procedure doesn't touch the
other keys.

It's not impossible that they cleared the remote lock/unlock system and
started it from scratch, but that would have been another 10 second
procedure by itself. The remote lock/unlock system and programming a
new key transmitter for it is something you could have Googled the
instructions for and done yourself. Probably would have saved you $50.

The fact that your lost key still starts the car is proof that they
didn't "reprogram all the keys and the car" with regard to the ignition
security system. That's very costly to do.


> Something I haven't figured out yet is why, if they only copied the
> ignition security and remote codes to the new key, did I get charged
> for programming 3 keys, which included the valet key without any
> remote buttons?

That's an excellent question to ask your service manager.

Please note: they did not COPY the remote lock/unlock code to the new
key. The copying of codes relates ONLY to the ignition security system.
The lock/unlock system is separate and operates differently. The system
in the car can recognize up to four transmitters, and there's a specific
10 second sequence to go through that requires that the new key be
physically present at the car. This process does not alter the code in
the transmitter itself; the transmitter already has a unique code in it
from the factory. This procedure merely establishes a link between that
transmitter and the car's lock/unlock computer. The link is verified by
the fact that the key is physically at the car and that the key can
physically operate the door lock. Once that dance is completed, the
car's computer is convinced that this particular key is supposed to
operate this particular car, and the computer remembers that for remote
operations.

It's only a 10 second dance.

Like I said, the $100 paid for $50 of key plus ignition security code
transfer, and $50 worth of matching the new transmitter in the new key
to the car's remote lock/unlock system.

The reason you're here asking all of this is because you don't know how
the systems work, and you're looking for people who do know. You've
found one--but you're resisting believing that person.

You could believe a guy who spent a half hour of his life going over all
of this FOR FREE with a COMPLETE STRANGER, or you can believe the
dealership service department who just printed out a load of crap for
you to get your hundred bucks.

The key points (pun intended) to consider are these:

1) you were charged only $100, which does not in any way, shape, or form
pay for anything regarding the ignition security code inside the car
itself

2) your lost key still starts the car

It can't be any plainer to someone like me who knows how this works.
You may choose not to believe me; that's your business.



> It may be time to go back and have a talk with my
> Honda dealer.

I'd say so.

Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in news:n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@
4ax.com:

> We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a
> result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key,
> and re-programming of all the keys. This is supposed to be a security
> safeguard. Today, we found the long lost key. Just for my amusement,
> I tried the key in the Accord to see what would happen. To my
> surprise (and chagrin) The key would not only unlock the doors
> (manually), but also start the engine! The only thing that was
> disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all
> that money if the key would still work to steal the car?



The dealer is supposed to clear the immobilizer memory of the transponder
codes for the lost key. This is done through the same PGM Tester menu used
to add new keys. The mechanic that did the work just forgot to do that.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Sun, 11 May 2008 18:42:54 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <mkoe24hacbir8h1rt59ph6mmvu1mmco77i@4ax.com>,
> Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote:
>
>> They didn't just copy the remote unlock system to the new key. They
>> changed the remote program for both keys.

>It's not impossible that they cleared the remote lock/unlock system and
>started it from scratch, but that would have been another 10 second
>procedure by itself. The remote lock/unlock system and programming a
>new key transmitter for it is something you could have Googled the
>instructions for and done yourself. Probably would have saved you $50.
>

>The reason you're here asking all of this is because you don't know how
>the systems work, and you're looking for people who do know. You've
>found one--but you're resisting believing that person.
>

First, I want to thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.
I have no problem with your explanation of the ignition code
programming. Let's forget about that. My real problem is with the
keyless entry system.

I have spent a great deal of time searching for information regarding
remote control programming for the 2003 Honda Accord EX. So far I
have found zip. There are lots of procedures for other Hondas and
earlier Hondas, but nothing regarding 7th generation Accords. All of
the procedures I have found have the same procedure (the 'dance' as
you call it.) So, taking your advice, I attempted to program my
remotes using the procedure from these other Hondas. So far, I have
tried it 4 times, and there is absolutely no response from the car.

I did see in the Honda Security Systems Owner's Manual printed in 2002
that it shows, "Remote Control Code Programming (Only vehicles not
equipped with Standard Keyless Entry System." I don't know how to
interpret that. I would say that my Accord came equipped with a
standard keyless entry system, but it may mean something else. All I
know is that the programming instructions in these early manuals does
not work in my car.

Something else I ran across was something in my 2003 Owner's Manual
that states, "If you lose a transmitter, you will need to have the
replacement programmed to your car's system by your Honda dealer. Any
other transmitters you have will also need to be reprogrammed." This
seems to contradict what you told me earlier.

What would be most helpful to me now would be to point me to a site
that has remote entry progamming instructions for a 7th generation
Accord EX.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:43 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
wrote:

>Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in news:n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@
>4ax.com:
>
>> We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a
>> result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key,
>> and re-programming of all the keys. This is supposed to be a security
>> safeguard. Today, we found the long lost key. Just for my amusement,
>> I tried the key in the Accord to see what would happen. To my
>> surprise (and chagrin) The key would not only unlock the doors
>> (manually), but also start the engine! The only thing that was
>> disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all
>> that money if the key would still work to steal the car?
>
>
>
>The dealer is supposed to clear the immobilizer memory of the transponder
>codes for the lost key. This is done through the same PGM Tester menu used
>to add new keys. The mechanic that did the work just forgot to do that.

Thanks Tegger. That clears up one mystery. Can you point me to the
remote key entry system programming instructions for a 2003 Accord EX?
I have tried the procedure for earlier Hondas without success.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in
news:uimf24dhgaf2h7h3da4fmk8mfl6f4vfgor@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:43 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
> wrote:
>
>>Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in
>>news:n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@ 4ax.com:
>>
>>> We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a
>>> result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key,
>>> and re-programming of all the keys. This is supposed to be a
>>> security safeguard. Today, we found the long lost key. Just for my
>>> amusement, I tried the key in the Accord to see what would happen.
>>> To my surprise (and chagrin) The key would not only unlock the doors
>>> (manually), but also start the engine! The only thing that was
>>> disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all
>>> that money if the key would still work to steal the car?
>>
>>
>>
>>The dealer is supposed to clear the immobilizer memory of the
>>transponder codes for the lost key. This is done through the same PGM
>>Tester menu used to add new keys. The mechanic that did the work just
>>forgot to do that.
>
> Thanks Tegger. That clears up one mystery. Can you point me to the
> remote key entry system programming instructions for a 2003 Accord EX?
> I have tried the procedure for earlier Hondas without success.
>


Try this:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/98-011.pdf

Your car is covered on page 9.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

In article <s0lf24hvu8ci8ki3at34i7p73mltb4l4ul@4ax.com>,
Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote:

> My real problem is with the
> keyless entry system.

Well, I explained how that works.



> I have spent a great deal of time searching for information regarding
> remote control programming for the 2003 Honda Accord EX. So far I
> have found zip. There are lots of procedures for other Hondas and
> earlier Hondas, but nothing regarding 7th generation Accords.

The dance may be different, but there's still a dance.



> Something else I ran across was something in my 2003 Owner's Manual
> that states, "If you lose a transmitter, you will need to have the
> replacement programmed to your car's system by your Honda dealer. Any
> other transmitters you have will also need to be reprogrammed." This
> seems to contradict what you told me earlier.

The last sentence says that maybe they did it differently with the 03
Accord (but I seriously doubt it). But the rest of it is the same as
they've always said. In other words, we're not going to put into any
customer documentation how to do this procedure.

In a Honda system, you don't "reprogram the transmitters". I think
you're seeing sloppy documentation. Worst case, they're talking about
clearing the car's computer of all transmitter codes, and doing the
dance again for the keys you do have. This would "lock out" the lost
key, right?

And this is what may have happened in your case. A quick hit on the
service computer, and do the dance for the two remaining keys. There's
your $50.

On Mon, 12 May 2008 08:48:38 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
wrote:

>Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in
>news:uimf24dhgaf2h7h3da4fmk8mfl6f4vfgor@4ax.com :
>
>> On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:43 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in
>>>news:n1ce24tsk2htoi1355tgms7sd153efc87f@ 4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> We lost one of the keys to our 2003 Accord EX-V6 last year. As a
>>>> result we had to go to the Honda dealer, and pay $100 for a new key,
>>>> and re-programming of all the keys. This is supposed to be a
>>>> security safeguard. Today, we found the long lost key. Just for my
>>>> amusement, I tried the key in the Accord to see what would happen.
>>>> To my surprise (and chagrin) The key would not only unlock the doors
>>>> (manually), but also start the engine! The only thing that was
>>>> disabled was the remote control. What was the point of paying all
>>>> that money if the key would still work to steal the car?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The dealer is supposed to clear the immobilizer memory of the
>>>transponder codes for the lost key. This is done through the same PGM
>>>Tester menu used to add new keys. The mechanic that did the work just
>>>forgot to do that.
>>
>> Thanks Tegger. That clears up one mystery. Can you point me to the
>> remote key entry system programming instructions for a 2003 Accord EX?
>> I have tried the procedure for earlier Hondas without success.
>>
>
>
>Try this:
>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/98-011.pdf
>
>Your car is covered on page 9.

Thanks very much.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **