Honda Car Forum

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <rfmsj.26$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
>> company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
>> true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
>> be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
>> really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
>> cars, too.
>
> Joe Sixpack has $25,000 to spend on a car. That's a bunch of money to
> him, and he doesn't want to waste it.
>
> No matter what he does, he rolls the dice. So, what does he do?
>
> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
> a Russian tractory factory blush from embarassment? Or does he buy a
> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
> odds are so incredibly against that?

The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
record for the more recent cars is good.

Jeff

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:54:17 -0600, "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com>
wrote:

>"Tony Harding" <ToHard@nowhere.org> wrote in message news:47b1dd81$0$7859$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>> tater wrote:
>>> <buydomestic@usa.com> wrote in message
>>> news:bbb87af8-e1fe-4b8c-8435-4c0ed51f6315@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>>
>>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>>
>>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>>>> car.
>>>>
>>>
>>> American cars are crap. Made by unionists more worried about when their
>>> next coffee break is than making quality cars. They've negotiated themselves
>>> right out of jobs as the big auto makers cut back. It's not possible to do
>>> business that way and compete on a world wide economy.
>>
>> It's hardly the workers' fault - Honda & Toyota employ American workers
>> and turn out quality vehicles. This is a management failing.
>
>Anybody remembers what was in the news some years ago about
>Jesse Jackson accusations to Nissan of racism ? Was it workers
>hiring process related? I forgot the details...

Jesse Jackson IS a racist. Anything that isn't as he thinks it should
be runs the risk of being refered to with some kind of racial
overtone...

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:21:19 GMT, "BaJoRi" <bajori1970@aol.com> wrote:

>Where do the profits go? The profits for Japanese manufacturers, no matter
>where the car is built, go to Japan. It sucks revenue out of our economy.

Hmmm... Wal-Mart - Send all your money to China. Used to be thier
slogan was "Made in America", see where that went?

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:52:26 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <rfmsj.26$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
>>> company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
>>> true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
>>> be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
>>> really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
>>> cars, too.
>>
>> Joe Sixpack has $25,000 to spend on a car. That's a bunch of money to
>> him, and he doesn't want to waste it.
>>
>> No matter what he does, he rolls the dice. So, what does he do?
>>
>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embarassment? Or does he buy a
>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
>> odds are so incredibly against that?
>
>The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
>record for the more recent cars is good.
>
>Jeff

Ford is recalling a SHITLOAD of SUVs and vans (2006 and 2007 models)
over problems that can result in the car burning to the ground. Seems
they've had a lot of these over the past decade or so...

Michael Yeager wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:52:26 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> In article <rfmsj.26$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
>>>> company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
>>>> true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
>>>> be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
>>>> really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
>>>> cars, too.
>>> Joe Sixpack has $25,000 to spend on a car. That's a bunch of money to
>>> him, and he doesn't want to waste it.
>>>
>>> No matter what he does, he rolls the dice. So, what does he do?
>>>
>>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
>>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embarassment? Or does he buy a
>>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
>>> odds are so incredibly against that?
>> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
>> record for the more recent cars is good.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Ford is recalling a SHITLOAD of SUVs and vans (2006 and 2007 models)
> over problems that can result in the car burning to the ground. Seems
> they've had a lot of these over the past decade or so...

And Toyota has had a lot of recalls last year and the year before.

Please tell me the automaker who never makes any mistakes.

Jeff

In article <uyosj.32$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> > Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
> > a Russian tractory factory blush from embarassment? Or does he buy a
> > Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
> > odds are so incredibly against that?
>
> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
> record for the more recent cars is good.

But it's not NEARLY enough of a track record compared to the Japanese
nameplates--not nearly enough for Joe Sixpack to throw his hard earned
$25,000.

"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fxosj.31$dh.15@trnddc01...
> R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>> Back in 1985, I hired a Buick Park Drive and a Pontiac Grand Am while in
>> the USA.
>>
>> The Buick was passable, but with very sloppy suspension etc.
>>
>> The Grand Am was appalling, one of the worst cars I have ever driven and
>> certainly the worst new one.
>>
>> At the time back in the UK I was driving a 1983 BMW 735i. Obviously this
>> was better than most EU cars of that era, however the US cars of the time
>> were laughable in comparison.
>>
>> The trouble [for the US car industry] is that 25 years after that 735i
>> was built it is probably still better than most US cars sold today in
>> almost every department. Some of them are still laughable e.g. the
>> Chrysler PT Cruiser - poor drive, poor ride, poor handling, poor
>> performance, poor trim, poor seats, poor reliability and so on. You
>> would be better off in a ten year old base entry model 3 series than a
>> new one of these.
>
> A BMW 735i probably cost about 3 times as much money as most American cars
> of the era, too.
>
> You get what you pay for, especially considering the high cost of
> maintaining such a vehicle.

But you don't have to replace it after just a few years.

Obviously cars are / were not taxed as much in the USA and over there a BMW
was a premium import.

Where it was made it would be a lot cheaper.

The main point was that a car designed and made in Europe a generation ago
is still better than most US made cars now.

The corrolory would be that current EU mass market cars (e.g. Ford Mondeo,
Vauxhall Vectra etc.) are better than their BMW market equivalents (3 and 5
series) of the mid 80's.

To put it another way the US is about 25 years behind Europe on car design,
build and quality control.

>
> jeff
>
> Jeff

In article <6Cpsj.39$dh.10@trnddc01>, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> >>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
> >>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embarassment? Or does he buy a
> >>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
> >>> odds are so incredibly against that?
> >> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
> >> record for the more recent cars is good.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >
> > Ford is recalling a SHITLOAD of SUVs and vans (2006 and 2007 models)
> > over problems that can result in the car burning to the ground. Seems
> > they've had a lot of these over the past decade or so...
>
> And Toyota has had a lot of recalls last year and the year before.
>
> Please tell me the automaker who never makes any mistakes.

Please go back and READ what I wrote.

The ODDS of a serious mistake and/or a shitty car and/or a car that's
worn out at 60K miles are HUGELY better on an American nameplate.
HUGELY better.

The odds of getting a solid, reliable car that will last a very long
time with small maintenance and repair bills, and small fuel bills, are
INCREDIBLY better for a Japanese nameplate.

So, you're Joe Sixpack--where do you put your hard-earned $25,000?

And don't spout back to me about "well, I found a lemon Toyota once...."
We're talking the HUGE difference in ODDS here. Inexecusably large
difference.

buydomestic@usa.com wrote:

> On Feb 12, 8:41�am, Jeff <kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>buydomes...@usa.com wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>
>>>GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>>ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>
>>>The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>>they need, they are going to go under. �Consider buying an American
>>>car.
>>
>>>Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>>Annual Auto Issue:
>>
>>>Buick Lacrosse
>>>Buick Lucerne
>>>Cadillac CTS
>>>Cadillac CTS-V
>>>Cadillac DTS
>>>Chevrolet HHR
>>>Chevrolet Impala
>>>Chevrolet Malibu
>>>Chevrolet Tahoe
>>>Chrysler 300
>>>Chrysler PT Cruiser
>>>Dodge Durango
>>>Ford Five Hundred
>>>Ford Focus
>>>Ford Freestyle
>>>Ford Fusion
>>>GMC Yukon
>>>Jeep Liberty
>>>Lincoln MKZ
>>>Lincoln Town Car
>>>Mercury Milan
>>>Mercury Montego
>>>Pontiac G6
>>>Pontiac Torrent
>>
>>What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?
>
>
> Toyota and Honda assemble cars all over the world, but the profits go
> back to Japan.


So?

They, (Honda/Toyota) build a far superior product.

JT

Tony Harding wrote:

> tater wrote:
>
>> <buydomestic@usa.com> wrote in message
>> news:bbb87af8-e1fe-4b8c-8435-4c0ed51f6315@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>
>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>
>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>>> car.
>>>
>>
>> American cars are crap. Made by unionists more worried about when their
>> next coffee break is than making quality cars. They've negotiated
>> themselves
>> right out of jobs as the big auto makers cut back. It's not possible
>> to do business that way and compete on a world wide economy.
>
>
> It's hardly the workers' fault - Honda & Toyota employ American workers
> and turn out quality vehicles. This is a management failing.


Yes... Getting in bed with the union back in the 1960's, 1970's and
1980's. Now, the cowz have come home to roost..

JT