Honda Car Forum

Hi,

I took my 98 civic to an authorized honda dealer. they read the code
P0730 - Incorrect gear ratio. Now they suggest replacing the
transmission for 2500 parts and labor.

Some q's:

Is there any chance honda is wrong in saying the only thing to do is
get a new transmission. There is something wrong with the car, the
check engine light came on a week ago, I had it reset, and now it's on
again, so it's not just a fault with the computer. Also the car jumps
slightly (almost impersptably) when i step on the gas after starting
it.

The car seems to run fine otherwise. How long is it possible for it to
keep going?


Will it just break down on the freeway one day (not safe to drive), or
will it just gradually get worse?


Anything I can do besides replacing my tranmission? The dealer said
just baby it and don't change the transmission fluid as this is any
metal particles in it now keep it running fine, so don't change it.

I was planning on getting rid of the car in a few months anyway, as I
will not need a car for a while (going back to school). I don't want
to rip someone off by selling them a car that seems fine, but has a a
bad transmission, on the other hand i sure don't want to pay 2500 for
a new transmission. Any cheaper alternative fix I can do or other
suggestions?

Thanks.

<albert.mills@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1191530702.620552.299480@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I took my 98 civic to an authorized honda dealer. they read the code
> P0730 - Incorrect gear ratio. Now they suggest replacing the
> transmission for 2500 parts and labor.
>
> Some q's:
>
> Is there any chance honda is wrong in saying the only thing to do is
> get a new transmission. There is something wrong with the car, the
> check engine light came on a week ago, I had it reset, and now it's on
> again, so it's not just a fault with the computer. Also the car jumps
> slightly (almost impersptably) when i step on the gas after starting
> it.
>
> The car seems to run fine otherwise. How long is it possible for it to
> keep going?
>
>
> Will it just break down on the freeway one day (not safe to drive), or
> will it just gradually get worse?
>
>
> Anything I can do besides replacing my tranmission? The dealer said
> just baby it and don't change the transmission fluid as this is any
> metal particles in it now keep it running fine, so don't change it.

If it is an automatic and you are getting a remanufactured transmission
installed, $2,500 is not a bad price.
>
> I was planning on getting rid of the car in a few months anyway, as I
> will not need a car for a while (going back to school). I don't want
> to rip someone off by selling them a car that seems fine, but has a a
> bad transmission, on the other hand i sure don't want to pay 2500 for
> a new transmission. Any cheaper alternative fix I can do or other
> suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>

albert.mills@googlemail.com wrote:
> I took my 98 civic to an authorized honda dealer. they read the code
> P0730 - Incorrect gear ratio. Now they suggest replacing the
> transmission for 2500 parts and labor.

Before spending $2,500 and perhaps not fixing the problem, I'd want a second
opinion.

> Is there any chance honda is wrong in saying the only thing to do is
> get a new transmission.

Yes.

> There is something wrong with the car, the
> check engine light came on a week ago, I had it reset, and now it's on
> again, so it's not just a fault with the computer.

Unless the computer has an internal intermittent fault or there is a sensor
problem or an intermittent wiring problem.

> Will it just break down on the freeway one day (not safe to drive), or
> will it just gradually get worse?

It will probably go into "limp-home" mode first. That might restrict you to
second and fourth gears, for instance.

> Any cheaper alternative fix I can do or other suggestions?

Keep a log of conditions when failure occurs. Is the transmission cold? Hot?
Is the weather wet? Dry? Does the code set when upshifting? When
downshifting? When accellerating? When decelerating? What other work has
been done on the car recently? That information may provide some clues.

--
Chuck

"albert.mills@googlemail.com" <albert.mills@googlemail.com> wrote in
news:1191530702.620552.299480@22g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com:

> Hi,
>
> I took my 98 civic to an authorized honda dealer. they read the code
> P0730 - Incorrect gear ratio. Now they suggest replacing the
> transmission for 2500 parts and labor.


Why did you post this identical message independently to at least three
newsgroups? Each group now has no idea what has been posted in reply in the
other groups. That's not smart.


>
>
> Some q's:
>
>
> Is there any chance honda is wrong



"Honda" is not wrong, the *dealer* is wrong. The dealer is not Honda.



> in saying the only thing to do is
> get a new transmission. There is something wrong with the car, the
> check engine light came on a week ago, I had it reset, and now it's
> on
> again, so it's not just a fault with the computer. Also the car jumps
> slightly (almost impersptably) when i step on the gas after starting
> it.



There is a TSB out on exactly your problem. The fix involves replacing the
linear solenoid, plus replacing the ATF with the correct Honda Z1.

Ask your dealer about TSB 00-012. Not all Civics are affected, just the
ones in a certain VIN range.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message news:qdOdnaPWOYHAmpTanZ2dnUVZ_rKtnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "motsco_" <motsco_@interbaun.com> wrote in message
>> news:13ggpbl2t3c1m6f@corp.supernews.com...
>>> MURPHY'S LAW DICTATES THAT the goofs at Monkey Lube have an 80% chance
>>> of hooking up the FLUSHING machine BACKWARDS, which evenly distributes
>>> the contents of your HONDA internal filter throughout your tranny.
>>
>> We were talking about doing transmission flush at the dealer.
>
> given that the honda factory maintenance specs specifically say to /not/
> flush, i think you're not understanding what you're being told. or
> you're not talking with the right people.

The dealership is not right people? Who is then?
If you go back couple of posts in this thread you will notice
I was refering to an experience with TOYOTA not honda dealer.

>>> That's not a good thing. When _you_ drain-n-fill, you wipe off the
>>> magnetic drain plug. You drive it a few hours and drain-n-fill again.
>>
>> I have found transmission drain plug in my toyota camry.
>> Does 2004 honda accord I4 have similar drain plug?
>
> yes.
>
>> That is a positive surprise since most of the cars do not
>> have drain plugs on transmission and you have to dick
>> with the sucking fluid through the dipstick tube... :-)
>> Or removing transmission pan and resealing it after the wokr.
>
> ok, you're not experienced with japanese vehicles. you're right, many
> domestics and imports like bmw do not have drains. but honda and toyota
> do. they're better made, designed to be serviceable, and last many
> times longer.

I am happy to hear that toyota is not an exception.

I have never own a gm, chrystler nor ford made vehicle.

>>> Guess what, you've removed a bunch more particles and you've got about
>>> 2/3rds of your fluid replaced. Because you've cleaned off the drain
>>> plug magnet, it continues to captivate all remaining metal filings.
>>> Cheap insurance / better shifting.
>>
>> With the flush you will have almost all fluid replaced,
>> so it should be much better: 100% new fluid :-)
>>
>>> Look into the TSB as well, but change your ATF just the same.
>>
>> What TSB should I look into?
>>
> tegger has already told you.

OK, I see tegger post now. He is mentioning TSB 00-012 which
affects only certain civics. It is not general statement about all cars.

> bottom line, you sound like a kid that doesn't want to listen.
> that's ok, but don't keep wasting our time with it.

Please, dont be rude. Nobody forces you to answer my questions.
If you think you are wasting your time - dont do it.

> going forward, i have some recommendations:
>
> 1. stop asking for advice from experienced [current/ex] pros if you
> don't want to know.
> 2. buy the honda service manual from helminc.com so you can answer all
> these basic questions yourself.
> 3. sign up for an evening course in basic vehicle maintenance.

I have a recomendation for you:
READ THE WHOLE THREAD YOU TAKE THE PART IN.
If you read my post in this thread carefully, you would learn
that my question was related to toyota dealership recomendation
about my 1995 camry.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...2186a7eb7a2db8

> as for your transmission, go ahead and do whatever you want in terms of
> the fluid. treated right, honda automatics routinely last 300k+ miles.
> go ahead and perform your experiment, then let us know how yours
> lasts and shifts 12 months from now. i've experienced that experiment
> myself and have told you how it works out. many others here can report
> the same, all from direct personal experience.

You were all talking about doing a flush in "Monkey Lube" places.
Not at the dealership dealing exclusivly in one type of vehicles.
How what you said apply to what I asked for?
You simply have not answered my question.

In article <fea995.hlk.0@poczta.onet.pl>,
"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote:

> > drain and fill simply empties the old fluid, and does /not/ contaminate
> > with anything foreign. it works by dilution, and that is sufficient.
> > again, i speak from personal experience.
>
> We are talking about doing "flush" at the dealership.
> In my case, we were talking about my old toyota camry.
> The most likely scenario will be that the machine was
> used on toyotas only for years. No other fluids than toyota.
> So the argument is mute.

Firstly, it's not a "mute" point. The phrase is "moot point".

http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/mute.html


Secondly, it doesn't matter if the dealership has and tries to sell the
services of such a machine. The only real question is, is it good for
the car? The dealership doesn't really care; they care about selling
services that people want, whether those services are useful or not,
whether those services are beneficial or not, whether those services are
harmful or not.

Does the manufacturer specify the procedure? If so, show me the
specification.

Chances are, the manufacturer does NOT specify the procedure. The fact
that the dealership offers services not recommended by the manufacturer
is simply a fact of life. They want to make money any way they can.

Honda specifies a repeated drain/fill/drive procedure to exchange the
fluid, and recommends against using a flush machine. There's a reason
for that, and it doesn't have anything to do with foreign or
contaminated fluids.

In article <qdOdnaPWOYHAmpTanZ2dnUVZ_rKtnZ2d@speakeasy.net> ,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:

> Pszemol wrote:
> > "motsco_" <motsco_@interbaun.com> wrote in message
> > news:13ggpbl2t3c1m6f@corp.supernews.com...
> >> MURPHY'S LAW DICTATES THAT the goofs at Monkey Lube have an 80% chance
> >> of hooking up the FLUSHING machine BACKWARDS, which evenly distributes
> >> the contents of your HONDA internal filter throughout your tranny.
> >
> > We were talking about doing transmission flush at the dealer.
>
> given that the honda factory maintenance specs specifically say to /not/
> flush, i think you're not understanding what you're being told. or
> you're not talking with the right people.

No, he desperately wants the world to be different than it is. Toward
his goal, then, he sticks his head in the sand and ignores reality.

It's like the people who want an oil change interval listed in the
owner's manual, and refuse to listen to the maintenance minder--even
though the maintenance minder IS the keeper of the manufacturer
specified oil change interval. So, instead, they simply make up an
interval out of thin air, and claim it to be superior to what the Honda
engineers say.

In article <feaj2l.gro.0@poczta.onet.pl>,
"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote:

> > given that the honda factory maintenance specs specifically say to /not/
> > flush, i think you're not understanding what you're being told. or
> > you're not talking with the right people.
>
> The dealership is not right people? Who is then?

No, the dealership service department has its own agenda for making
money--and that is frequently at odds with what the manufacturer says.

The "right people" are the manufacturers. They create the service
manuals. Get the service manual and follow its direction.

Meanwhile, the dealership will do whatever it takes to make money. If
that means lying to you to try to convince you to spend money for a
procedure that the manufacturer VERY SPECIFICALLY recommends AGAINST,
they will. They end up with the money, and you end up with the repair
bill a few months afterward.



> If you go back couple of posts in this thread you will notice
> I was refering to an experience with TOYOTA not honda dealer.

It doesn't matter WHAT dealership you're talking about. They all do
business the same.

The trick is to find one that is capable and understands the
manufacturer's product and recommendations, and is willing to do the
work that the manufacturer specifies in an honest manner. Those
dealerships exist, but you as an owner have to ask the right questions.

In article <fea999.hlk.0@poczta.onet.pl>,
"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote:

> > Not to mention, Honda's own engineers say that a "flush" (as most people
> > use the term) isn't recommended. They specify a repetitive
> > drain/fill/drive procedure as a way to clear things out.
>
> Do they care to say WHY it is not recommended?

Because it's not.

Does it matter WHY they say it's not recommended? They are the
engineers. I'm the consumer. I don't need to know the engineering
details. I need to know what maintenance to perform and when to perform
it.

The hairy details aren't nearly so important.

In article <feaets.hl8.0@poczta.onet.pl>,
"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote:

> >> Do they care to say WHY it is not recommended?
> >
> > i just told you...
>
> What you said does not make any sense.
> Flush is going to exchange almost 100% of fluid with a new one.

It will also do other things that the people who designed and built the
transmission don't want to happen.

Honda does specify a method to exchange almost 100% of the fluid with
fresh. Use that method. Hint: it does NOT involve the use of a
machine. A torque wrench, a drain pan, and some fresh fluid--and
time--are all that's needed.