Honda Car Forum

"ThomasE" <lester12@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:cda2cdf7fcc45e417fe21a41a95d0cf1@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com:

> I thought that if it is indeed the main relay that's causing the
> problem then the fuel pump will not run (except for the initial 2
> second priming). Not?
>


You'd think so, yes.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"ThomasE" <lester12@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:53a43b11353973abcb669bc8ab3fee00@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com:

> Finally. I cought the engine not starting.
> This afternoon the engine failed to start on 4 attempts. In all 4
> attempts the LED shows power to the fuel pump been cut off after I
> return the key from the cranking position to the driving position.
> So,
> 1. I turn the ignition and the LED comes on for 2” (I also hear the
> pump). Here I feel the 1st relay click (relay goes on). Then after 2”
> LED and pump go off and I feel the 2nd realy click (relay goes off).
> 2. I crank the engine and the LED comes on (cannot hear pump over
> engine noise), engine starts. Here I feel the 3rd relay click (relay
> on). 3. I return the key from the cranking position to the driving
> position and the LED goes off!! and I feel a 4th relay click. Engine
> then stalls about 1” later. This 4th realy click must be the relay
> going off again.



It sounds like that.



>
> So this points to the main relay being at fault. I guess it could
> still be the ECU’s fault for failing to maintain the relay closed but
> from what I know blaming the ECU for problems is usually a loosing
> proposition.
>
> So I will probably replace the main relay. If that fixes the problem I
> will then take the older relay apart to see if I can determine where
> it was failing, just out of curiosity.
>
>



I'd supect the ignition switch, but...

What you can do to help narrow this down is to hook up your LED to Main
Relay Terminal 2. If when the car stalls the terminal 2 LED goes OFF, then
the ignition switch is failing to provide power through IG1.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"ThomasE" <lester12@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:86e86d232ca67449f147f6c85d26958f@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com:

> I did remove most of the old solder and I did put new solder. Resin I did
> not have but I assumed the resin contained in the new solder itself was
> enough.
> In any case, I attached the LED to the fuel pump power now so I will wait
> for the malfunction to happen and get some more diagnostic information.
> Unfortunately the problem is intermittent and did not happen yesterday.
>
>


Thomas, it is a REALLY, REALLY bad idea to scatter your posts over many
threads. By doing this, you have just destroyed the original thread for
anyone Googling for an answer to this issue.

You should post ALL updates to the original thread, so future searchers
will find the whole thing in one place.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

ThomasE wrote:
> I thought that if it is indeed the main relay that's causing the problem
> then the fuel pump will not run (except for the initial 2 second priming).
> Not?
>
yes, but you can already hear the pump. unless you are hearing
challenged, i'd have thought the led redundant. but it's your call i guess.

motsco_ wrote:
> ThomasE wrote:
>> Finally. I cought the engine not starting. This afternoon the engine
>> failed to start on 4 attempts. In all 4 attempts
>> the LED shows power to the fuel pump been cut off after I return the key
>> from the cranking position to the driving position.
>> So,
>> 1. I turn the ignition and the LED comes on for 2” (I also hear the
>> pump).
>> Here I feel the 1st relay click (relay goes on). Then after 2” LED and
>> pump go off and I feel the 2nd realy click (relay goes off).
>> 2. I crank the engine and the LED comes on (cannot hear pump over engine
>> noise), engine starts. Here I feel the 3rd relay click (relay on).
>> 3. I return the key from the cranking position to the driving position
>> and
>> the LED goes off!! and I feel a 4th relay click. Engine then stalls about
>> 1” later. This 4th realy click must be the relay going off again.
>>
>> So this points to the main relay being at fault.
>
> --------------------
>
> If turning the key to another position kills the relay, does it really
> implicate the relay, or the ignition switch?
>
> 'Curly'

ignition switch. if the relay's not setting code 16, that's the next
place i'd look.

I do not understand why terminal 2. My Honda manual shows terminal 2 being
ground.

"ThomasE" <lester12@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:a8bfb68ed1eabf72a2eddd1553792877@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com:

> I do not understand why terminal 2. My Honda manual shows terminal 2
> being ground.
>
>


Yes, but terminal 2 is supplied by the ignition switch and is not switched
on and off by the Main Relay.

If power disappears from terminal 2, the ignition switch may be failing to
send power. Double-check that by backprobing terminal 5, the feed side of
terminal 2.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Looks like it’s probably the ignition switch!
The car is now reliably not starting so it is easier to diagnose. AND the
ignition switch behavior seems to have changed. Before, I could hear the
2” fuel pump priming when I turned the key to position II. Now I often
hear the priming only while the key is IN TRANSITION from position I to
position II and/or when from position II a little bit of clockwise torque
is applied on the key towards position III.
Also when the engine stalls after being cranked I notice that the ECU
diagnostic light makes one short blink. Is that normal or does it mean
that the power to the ECU is being cut off. If the power to the ECU is cut
off when the key is returned from position III to position II then this
would also point to the ignition switch.

ThomasE wrote:
> I do not understand why terminal 2. My Honda manual shows terminal 2 being
> ground.

--------------------------------

Both terminals are on the ground.

Terminal 2 is closed since they opened Terminal 3. I'll be passing
through there on the way to NFLD.

PLEASE stop posting a new (unconnected) thread for every new thought ! !

'Curly'

Sorry to bother you about this but...
I’m not sure I understand how topics and threads are intended to be used.
I cannot find a description. Can somebody perhaps send me a link to some
guidelines?

I thought that every topic has a number of posts and that the posts are
organized in a tree like structure, much like files are organized on PCs.
So if the discussion goes of in some tangent talking about some small
detail of a particular topic then that entire discussion remains under
that subtree. The root of the subtree is then the initial post that
started the tangent. Then I see that the Talk About website software shows
the tree structure using indentation levels.
Are you saying that you would like to see all the posts in a topic
organized strictly hierarchicallly with each new message being the child
of the previous message? In other words would you prefer to see in the
topic presentation every new message being indented one level more than
the previous one? I.e.

Original post
2nd post
3rd post
4th post
etc. ?

or
Original post
2nd post
3rd post
4th post

or
Original post
2nd post
3rd post
4th post
5th post
that is stay at the same level or indent to the right but never indent to
the left? Ie. don't do:

Original post
2nd post
3rd post
4th post
5th post
6th post (don’t do this?)

Or are you talking just about NOT changing the title of the post. That way
every post title is “Re: Initial topic title”