Honda Car Forum

Hi,
If I only run my accord for a minute or so (i.e. do not let it warm up)
and then shut it off, it has trouble starting the next time I try to
start it. The trouble ranges from 1) starting normally, then idling
roughly for a minute or so, and then running normally to 2) starting
and then quickly dying, then cranking but not starting (engine
flooded?).

I am wondering whether this is normal behavior (I doubt it) and what
might be done to 'fix it'. (The current fix is to never run the car
for too short a length of time).

Observations/questions:
- I have seen this problem with as much as 24 hours elapsing between
the 'short run' and the 'next start'. Does that mean that the flooding
is occurirng on the 'next start' attempt? i.e. will a flooded engine
'unflood' with no intervention if you leave it alone for hours?
- I read about moisture from combustion being left behind on the spark
plugs if they do not get a chance to warm up? Any comments?
- Is there a sensor failure that would cause this?

Knock on wood, this problem is the only ignition/engine type problem
that the car exhibits.

Thanks for any responses.

eddie@eddiebyrne.com wrote:
> Hi,
> If I only run my accord for a minute or so (i.e. do not let it warm up)
> and then shut it off, it has trouble starting the next time I try to
> start it. The trouble ranges from 1) starting normally, then idling
> roughly for a minute or so, and then running normally to 2) starting
> and then quickly dying, then cranking but not starting (engine
> flooded?).
>
> I am wondering whether this is normal behavior (I doubt it) and what
> might be done to 'fix it'. (The current fix is to never run the car
> for too short a length of time).
>
> Observations/questions:
> - I have seen this problem with as much as 24 hours elapsing between
> the 'short run' and the 'next start'. Does that mean that the flooding
> is occurirng on the 'next start' attempt? i.e. will a flooded engine
> 'unflood' with no intervention if you leave it alone for hours?
> - I read about moisture from combustion being left behind on the spark
> plugs if they do not get a chance to warm up? Any comments?
> - Is there a sensor failure that would cause this?
>
> Knock on wood, this problem is the only ignition/engine type problem
> that the car exhibits.


Have a look at the Rover 216 GSi article in my website below.

HTH

--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website
Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

Thanks for the suggestion Graham. Cool web sites!

I read the Rover article. Good story with lots of detail and
information! But I'm not sure what you meant for me to get out of it
vis a vis my problem. Your original problem (won't start after a short
drive) is close to what I see, but the later problems are not.

When my problem happens (after a 'short run / shut down cold'), it will
run rough after starting if I try again in 5 minutes or 24 hours. I
have not had the chance to let it sit for more than a day to see if it
would still be a problem.

-Eddie

eddie@eddiebyrne.com wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestion Graham. Cool web sites!

Ta!

> I read the Rover article. Good story with lots of detail and
> information! But I'm not sure what you meant for me to get out of it
> vis a vis my problem. Your original problem (won't start after a short
> drive) is close to what I see, but the later problems are not.


Well, I thought it sounded like the dirty distributor cap syndrome,
but maybe it's not. As you say, there are similarities and differences.
It is a bit lengthy and covers more than one problem but the re-start
one caught me out more than once!


> When my problem happens (after a 'short run / shut down cold'), it will
> run rough after starting if I try again in 5 minutes or 24 hours. I
> have not had the chance to let it sit for more than a day to see if it
> would still be a problem.


It would still be worth scrubbing up the cap as it needs no special tools
and is easy to do and if you are suffering a combination of faults it
would get rid of one of them. The wet weather is also a clue.

Good luck in sorting it anyway.

Graham W

--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website
Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

eddie@eddiebyrne.com wrote:
> Hi,
> If I only run my accord for a minute or so (i.e. do not let it warm up)
> and then shut it off, it has trouble starting the next time I try to
> start it. The trouble ranges from 1) starting normally, then idling
> roughly for a minute or so, and then running normally to 2) starting
> and then quickly dying, then cranking but not starting (engine
> flooded?).
>
> I am wondering whether this is normal behavior (I doubt it) and what
> might be done to 'fix it'. (The current fix is to never run the car
> for too short a length of time).
>
> Observations/questions:
> - I have seen this problem with as much as 24 hours elapsing between
> the 'short run' and the 'next start'. Does that mean that the flooding
> is occurirng on the 'next start' attempt? i.e. will a flooded engine
> 'unflood' with no intervention if you leave it alone for hours?
> - I read about moisture from combustion being left behind on the spark
> plugs if they do not get a chance to warm up? Any comments?
> - Is there a sensor failure that would cause this?
>
> Knock on wood, this problem is the only ignition/engine type problem
> that the car exhibits.
>
> Thanks for any responses.
>
----------------------------------

Another fellow who used to hang around here had the (exact) same
problem. He concluded that if he was going to start the Honda, he'd have
to go for a spin. It was a few years ago and I don't think he ever found
the reason. The owner's manual is very clear how to start a flooded
Honda. A google search for 'dribbling + injector' would ring a few bells.

It seems there should be a TSB somewhere about EGR or something like that.

Have you used injector cleaner from time to time? Ever changed the PCV
(somewhat unrelated).



'Curly'

Thanks Graham, Curly

Re cleaning distributor cap. You are right, I should do that. For you
that fixed that problem that was most similar to my problem.

I have not run any fuel injector cleaner. I may try that.

Bummer that they guy with same problem never figured it out (as far as
we know).

Taking the risk of throwing out red herrings and other bogus info, here
is some more info.
- My distributor died in 2003 and a friend helped me replace the
distributor body, cap, rotor, and igniter module. It is possible
(mabye 70%) that this problem only started occurring after that date.
- The only time that I usually do a 'short run / shut down cold' is
when moving my car in and out of the garage to wash it. So there's the
moisture again. But I didn't think that me washing the outside of the
car could get significant moisture into the distributor or intake
manifold for that matter. The hood stays down...
- Another possible moisture red herring: when the severe version of
the problem happened a few days ago (would not start), the garage was
super humid from melting snow and snow blowing in through a crack under
the garage door.

I'll try and rule out the moisture factor by doing a short run / shut
down cold / restart outside on a dry day.

I sort of bought into the moisture from combustion settling on a cool
spark plug theory. Is there a similar theory that would have moisture
settle at the 'wrong' point in the distributor??? whatever that point
is.

eddie@eddiebyrne.com wrote:
> Thanks Graham, Curly
>
> Re cleaning distributor cap. You are right, I should do that. For you
> that fixed that problem that was most similar to my problem.

To explain a little more... the internal and external surfaces
of the distributor cap may attract and be coated with grime particles
which, in damp weather, 'join up' and form a conductive film to
the high voltage stuff. They, or it, don't need to be a measurable
ohmic leak since what it does is provide one plate of a capacitor
which takes the punch out of the spark energy. Same applies to
the ignition HV leads to the plugs. So the thing to do is clean up
the cap in fairy liquid solution and then dry the cap in the warm
somewhere. Re install it and see if that improves things.

> I have not run any fuel injector cleaner. I may try that.
>
> Bummer that they guy with same problem never figured it out (as far as
> we know).
>
> Taking the risk of throwing out red herrings and other bogus info, here
> is some more info.
> - My distributor died in 2003 and a friend helped me replace the
> distributor body, cap, rotor, and igniter module. It is possible
> (mabye 70%) that this problem only started occurring after that date.
> - The only time that I usually do a 'short run / shut down cold' is
> when moving my car in and out of the garage to wash it. So there's the
> moisture again. But I didn't think that me washing the outside of the
> car could get significant moisture into the distributor or intake
> manifold for that matter. The hood stays down...
> - Another possible moisture red herring: when the severe version of
> the problem happened a few days ago (would not start), the garage was
> super humid from melting snow and snow blowing in through a crack under
> the garage door.
>
> I'll try and rule out the moisture factor by doing a short run / shut
> down cold / restart outside on a dry day.

Nah, clean the cap, as above - you know it makes sense!

> I sort of bought into the moisture from combustion settling on a cool
> spark plug theory. Is there a similar theory that would have moisture
> settle at the 'wrong' point in the distributor??? whatever that point
> is.

HTH
--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website
Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.