Honda Car Forum

Elle wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>
>>jim beam wrote:
>>
>>>ricebike wrote:
>
> T wrote
>
>>>>>Honda no longer recommends the use of 10W-30.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>holy crap! did all other previous honda owners of
>>>>earlier models were
>>>>notified of this??? is there a national bulletin sent to
>>>>the owners of
>>>>manual-clutched hondas that state to use
>>>>honda-only-approved manual
>>>>transmission lube???
>>>
>>>
>>>well /you/ clearly missed the memo.
>>
>>Where was this memo? Because here in r.a.m.h is the first
>>I've heard of the concept. You'd think if it was that
>>horrid a problem, there would be a TSB or something sent
>>out to all Honda owners, like they do with recall notices.
>>If I didn't read TeGGeR's posts, I'd never know any
>>better. I can't imagine my 3gee's tranny is going to fall
>>out because I just topped it up with 10W30...
>
>
> Not to be too impertinent, but I think the good fellows are
> playing around with you and others a bit. Here's all the
> official documentation I have sen on this subject.

Yabbut, that all applies to newer cars. The shop manual AND owner's manuals for
my '87 Accord all specify standard motor oil - I don't even know if Honda had
their own MTF in '87. Jim and Tegger are going on as if continuing to use
10W-30 is going to cause my car to blow up or something.

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
news:PUcQg.601$1T2.117@pd7urf2no...
> Elle wrote:
> > "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> >
> >>jim beam wrote:
> >>
> >>>ricebike wrote:
> >
> > T wrote
> >
> >>>>>Honda no longer recommends the use of 10W-30.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>holy crap! did all other previous honda owners of
> >>>>earlier models were
> >>>>notified of this??? is there a national bulletin sent to
> >>>>the owners of
> >>>>manual-clutched hondas that state to use
> >>>>honda-only-approved manual
> >>>>transmission lube???
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>well /you/ clearly missed the memo.
> >>
> >>Where was this memo? Because here in r.a.m.h is the first
> >>I've heard of the concept. You'd think if it was that
> >>horrid a problem, there would be a TSB or something sent
> >>out to all Honda owners, like they do with recall notices.
> >>If I didn't read TeGGeR's posts, I'd never know any
> >>better. I can't imagine my 3gee's tranny is going to fall
> >>out because I just topped it up with 10W30...
> >
> >
> > Not to be too impertinent, but I think the good fellows are
> > playing around with you and others a bit. Here's all the
> > official documentation I have sen on this subject.
>
> Yabbut, that all applies to newer cars. The shop manual AND owner's
manuals for
> my '87 Accord all specify standard motor oil - I don't even know if Honda
had
> their own MTF in '87. Jim and Tegger are going on as if continuing to use
> 10W-30 is going to cause my car to blow up or something.

With the new stuff your synchro clutches won't grab the way they were
designed to, and this could lead to accelerated wear of the synchros. That
is the theory anyway. If you know how to shift the vehicle properly it may
not be an issue at all. If you look in your owner's manual it will no doubt
specify API and SAE ratings for the type of motor oil they intended you to
use in 1987.

Earle

"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
> Yabbut, that all applies to newer cars. The shop manual
> AND owner's manuals for my '87 Accord all specify standard
> motor oil - I don't even know if Honda had their own MTF
> in '87. Jim and Tegger are going on as if continuing to
> use 10W-30 is going to cause my car to blow up or
> something.

Yes, I know. I agree with your concerns and your reasoning
that were it really critical, Honda would have advertised
this to a much greater extent and explicitly said something
like, "Ignore your old owner's manual... "

My 91 Civic (182k miles) used the owner's manual prescribed
engine oil in the MT case up until last week. No problems
ever. Still, for the reasons I stated earlier, I switched. I
sleep a little better, so to speak, and my budget is no
worse off.

Earle's post seems level-headed as well. It's not so much
IMO a "you must switch" as it does seem like a good idea to
do so.

I do think the "best answer" as to which tranny fluid to use
at this point is the Honda MTF, based simply on interpreting
all the information those of us who are amateurs (which
might not include you or others, but does include me) have.

hey, thanks for the updated info all!


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ricebike wrote:
> hey, thanks for the updated info all!
>
>

FWIW - I was not happy with gear shifting at low temperatures in either
my '87 Integra or '89 Legend and switched to Red Line MTL in both
transmissions sometime in the early '90s. Shifting dramatically
improved and neither transmission ever gave me any problem. I put at
least 120K miles on the Integra transmission and 130K miles on the
Legend transmission using Red Line MTL. Had it been available at the
time, I'd probably have used Honda MTL but I'm not about to change out
the Red Line MTL now.

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:PUcQg.601$1T2.117@pd7urf2no:

> Elle wrote:
>> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>>
>>>jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>>ricebike wrote:
>>
>> T wrote
>>
>>>>>>Honda no longer recommends the use of 10W-30.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>holy crap! did all other previous honda owners of
>>>>>earlier models were
>>>>>notified of this??? is there a national bulletin sent to
>>>>>the owners of
>>>>>manual-clutched hondas that state to use
>>>>>honda-only-approved manual
>>>>>transmission lube???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>well /you/ clearly missed the memo.
>>>
>>>Where was this memo? Because here in r.a.m.h is the first
>>>I've heard of the concept. You'd think if it was that
>>>horrid a problem, there would be a TSB or something sent
>>>out to all Honda owners, like they do with recall notices.
>>>If I didn't read TeGGeR's posts, I'd never know any
>>>better. I can't imagine my 3gee's tranny is going to fall
>>>out because I just topped it up with 10W30...
>>
>>
>> Not to be too impertinent, but I think the good fellows are
>> playing around with you and others a bit. Here's all the
>> official documentation I have sen on this subject.
>
> Yabbut, that all applies to newer cars. The shop manual AND owner's
> manuals for my '87 Accord all specify standard motor oil - I don't
> even know if Honda had their own MTF in '87. Jim and Tegger are going
> on as if continuing to use 10W-30 is going to cause my car to blow up
> or something.


The oil manufacturers have lessened the "ep" or extreme pressure
additive in motor oils at the request of car manufacturers because the most
prevalent additive used a zinc compound, and that shortened the life of
catalysts (and maybe o2 sensors).
The ep additive is not really important in an auto engine except in very
high revving engines at the cam to follower interface where there is
usually not a hydronamic condition, i.e. the parts are not entirely
separated by an oil film.
They are needed in a transmission, however. If you do not want to buy
Honda trans lube do some research into motorcycle oils as they have
identified this problem and many motorcycle oils have more ep additives,
but are probably just as expensive as Honda's trans oil.
If you drive normally and do not drive at 100 mph plus you can probably
do without the additives, but even if it added $20 to the cost of a trans
oil change I would do it, trans repairs are too expensive to risk.
When '87 manuals were printed engine oil had enough ep additives to work.
Honda is on the ball and trying to protect your transmission, you should
listen in this case but a little scepticism is a good thing, I don't think
and have not been able to find out if the brake fluid they use is special
in some way. Anybody know why we should pay extra for Honda brake fluid?
Scott

ACAR wrote:
>
> ricebike wrote:
> > hey, thanks for the updated info all!
> >
> >
>
> FWIW - I was not happy with gear shifting at low temperatures in either
> my '87 Integra or '89 Legend and switched to Red Line MTL in both
> transmissions sometime in the early '90s. Shifting dramatically
> improved and neither transmission ever gave me any problem. I put at
> least 120K miles on the Integra transmission and 130K miles on the
> Legend transmission using Red Line MTL. Had it been available at the
> time, I'd probably have used Honda MTL but I'm not about to change out
> the Red Line MTL now.



The Redline product is probably better anyway.

JT

Earle Horton wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
> news:PUcQg.601$1T2.117@pd7urf2no...
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>jim beam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ricebike wrote:
>>>
>>>T wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>Honda no longer recommends the use of 10W-30.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>holy crap! did all other previous honda owners of
>>>>>>earlier models were
>>>>>>notified of this??? is there a national bulletin sent to
>>>>>>the owners of
>>>>>>manual-clutched hondas that state to use
>>>>>>honda-only-approved manual
>>>>>>transmission lube???
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>well /you/ clearly missed the memo.
>>>>
>>>>Where was this memo? Because here in r.a.m.h is the first
>>>>I've heard of the concept. You'd think if it was that
>>>>horrid a problem, there would be a TSB or something sent
>>>>out to all Honda owners, like they do with recall notices.
>>>>If I didn't read TeGGeR's posts, I'd never know any
>>>>better. I can't imagine my 3gee's tranny is going to fall
>>>>out because I just topped it up with 10W30...
>>>
>>>
>>>Not to be too impertinent, but I think the good fellows are
>>>playing around with you and others a bit. Here's all the
>>>official documentation I have sen on this subject.
>>
>>Yabbut, that all applies to newer cars. The shop manual AND owner's
>
> manuals for
>
>>my '87 Accord all specify standard motor oil - I don't even know if Honda
>
> had
>
>>their own MTF in '87. Jim and Tegger are going on as if continuing to use
>>10W-30 is going to cause my car to blow up or something.
>
>
> With the new stuff your synchro clutches won't grab the way they were
> designed to, and this could lead to accelerated wear of the synchros. That
> is the theory anyway. If you know how to shift the vehicle properly it may
> not be an issue at all. If you look in your owner's manual it will no doubt
> specify API and SAE ratings for the type of motor oil they intended you to
> use in 1987.

I understnd the "theory". My point is, if it was really that big a potential
problem, the information would have been out there a little more noticably.

scott wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
> news:PUcQg.601$1T2.117@pd7urf2no:
>
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>jim beam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ricebike wrote:
>>>
>>>T wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>Honda no longer recommends the use of 10W-30.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>holy crap! did all other previous honda owners of
>>>>>>earlier models were
>>>>>>notified of this??? is there a national bulletin sent to
>>>>>>the owners of
>>>>>>manual-clutched hondas that state to use
>>>>>>honda-only-approved manual
>>>>>>transmission lube???
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>well /you/ clearly missed the memo.
>>>>
>>>>Where was this memo? Because here in r.a.m.h is the first
>>>>I've heard of the concept. You'd think if it was that
>>>>horrid a problem, there would be a TSB or something sent
>>>>out to all Honda owners, like they do with recall notices.
>>>>If I didn't read TeGGeR's posts, I'd never know any
>>>>better. I can't imagine my 3gee's tranny is going to fall
>>>>out because I just topped it up with 10W30...
>>>
>>>
>>>Not to be too impertinent, but I think the good fellows are
>>>playing around with you and others a bit. Here's all the
>>>official documentation I have sen on this subject.
>>
>>Yabbut, that all applies to newer cars. The shop manual AND owner's
>>manuals for my '87 Accord all specify standard motor oil - I don't
>>even know if Honda had their own MTF in '87. Jim and Tegger are going
>>on as if continuing to use 10W-30 is going to cause my car to blow up
>>or something.
>
>
>
> The oil manufacturers have lessened the "ep" or extreme pressure
> additive in motor oils at the request of car manufacturers because the most
> prevalent additive used a zinc compound, and that shortened the life of
> catalysts (and maybe o2 sensors).
> The ep additive is not really important in an auto engine except in very
> high revving engines at the cam to follower interface where there is
> usually not a hydronamic condition, i.e. the parts are not entirely
> separated by an oil film.
> They are needed in a transmission, however. If you do not want to buy
> Honda trans lube do some research into motorcycle oils as they have
> identified this problem and many motorcycle oils have more ep additives,
> but are probably just as expensive as Honda's trans oil.
> If you drive normally and do not drive at 100 mph plus you can probably
> do without the additives, but even if it added $20 to the cost of a trans
> oil change I would do it, trans repairs are too expensive to risk.
> When '87 manuals were printed engine oil had enough ep additives to work.
> Honda is on the ball and trying to protect your transmission, you should
> listen in this case but a little scepticism is a good thing, I don't think
> and have not been able to find out if the brake fluid they use is special
> in some way. Anybody know why we should pay extra for Honda brake fluid?

Yes yes, I've been paying attention, I understand all the reasoning. I'm not
talking about putting motor oil in a car that Honda says should have their MTF.

As I said elsewhere, my 87s have always run 10W30 in the tranny (actually, one
had a mix with 20W50 for a while, because that's all I had to top up with after
changing the CV shafts), none has ever failed me, over nearly a million and a
half combined kms, and I don't see Honday jumping out to tell me I should do
otherwise or "suffer the consequences". Yes, their MTF may be "better", but
HONDA isn't saying that I shouldn't be using 10W30 anymore, or that I should be
running out to drain every last drop of 10W30 from my tranny and replace it
immediately with MTF.

If Honda isn't that concerned about it, I don't know why everyone else here is.

use gm syncromesh

works perfectly and will also solve most grinding issues

if you care to argue, go to HT ans search syncromesh first ard read up
allittle


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