Honda Car Forum

I did the oil change myself and took the car for a ride around the
block and then parked it. I tried to start it after a couple of days.
It just cranks over.

1. There is spark on all four the distributor terminals
2. The main relay terminals when opened look OK
3. I can't smell gas in the exhaust so I took out the fuel injectors.
There is no fuel coming out when car is cranked.
4. I loosed the bolt on the fuel filter. First time there was some gas
that leaked out. But I don't see any more gas when I loosen it now
after cranking.
5. I can hear the fuel pump for 2 sec when I turn the key before the
check engine light goes off.

I feel it is a problem with fuel delivery since I don't see any fuel
sprayed out of the fuel injectors. But this is the first time I have
done this so I have no clue as to how much fuel I should see if they
were working.

What should I do next? Change the Fuel Filter or Fuel Pump or Try with
starter fluid?

Vikram

I took out the fuel filter and put a small can under the fuel line that
feeds fuel from the pump. The first couple of time I started the car I
didn't hear the pump kick in and no fuel in can. On the third attempt I
heard the pump come on faintly. Now the pump, starts immediately and
the can fills up quickly. So, does this mean fuel filter is the
problem?
I have never changed the fuel filter in 210,000 miles!

Vikram

cvk69 wrote:
> I did the oil change myself and took the car for a ride around the
> block and then parked it. I tried to start it after a couple of days.
> It just cranks over.
>
> 1. There is spark on all four the distributor terminals
> 2. The main relay terminals when opened look OK
> 3. I can't smell gas in the exhaust so I took out the fuel injectors.
> There is no fuel coming out when car is cranked.
> 4. I loosed the bolt on the fuel filter. First time there was some gas
> that leaked out. But I don't see any more gas when I loosen it now
> after cranking.
> 5. I can hear the fuel pump for 2 sec when I turn the key before the
> check engine light goes off.
>
> I feel it is a problem with fuel delivery since I don't see any fuel
> sprayed out of the fuel injectors. But this is the first time I have
> done this so I have no clue as to how much fuel I should see if they
> were working.
>
> What should I do next? Change the Fuel Filter or Fuel Pump or Try with
> starter fluid?
>
> Vikram

I put the fuel filter back in. I turned the key and the pump turned on.
I verified that if I open the service bolt on the fuel filter there is
pressure in the system but there is still no spray out of the
injectors. I pressed the tip of the injector with my car key and it
sprayed the fuel. So, this means there is fuel pressure but injectors
are not getting activated. What can cause this?

Vikram
cvk69 wrote:
> I took out the fuel filter and put a small can under the fuel line that
> feeds fuel from the pump. The first couple of time I started the car I
> didn't hear the pump kick in and no fuel in can. On the third attempt I
> heard the pump come on faintly. Now the pump, starts immediately and
> the can fills up quickly. So, does this mean fuel filter is the
> problem?
> I have never changed the fuel filter in 210,000 miles!
>
> Vikram
>
> cvk69 wrote:
> > I did the oil change myself and took the car for a ride around the
> > block and then parked it. I tried to start it after a couple of days.
> > It just cranks over.
> >
> > 1. There is spark on all four the distributor terminals
> > 2. The main relay terminals when opened look OK
> > 3. I can't smell gas in the exhaust so I took out the fuel injectors.
> > There is no fuel coming out when car is cranked.
> > 4. I loosed the bolt on the fuel filter. First time there was some gas
> > that leaked out. But I don't see any more gas when I loosen it now
> > after cranking.
> > 5. I can hear the fuel pump for 2 sec when I turn the key before the
> > check engine light goes off.
> >
> > I feel it is a problem with fuel delivery since I don't see any fuel
> > sprayed out of the fuel injectors. But this is the first time I have
> > done this so I have no clue as to how much fuel I should see if they
> > were working.
> >
> > What should I do next? Change the Fuel Filter or Fuel Pump or Try with
> > starter fluid?
> >
> > Vikram

cvk69 wrote:
>
> I took out the fuel filter and put a small can under the fuel line that
> feeds fuel from the pump. The first couple of time I started the car I
> didn't hear the pump kick in and no fuel in can. On the third attempt I
> heard the pump come on faintly. Now the pump, starts immediately and
> the can fills up quickly. So, does this mean fuel filter is the
> problem?
> I have never changed the fuel filter in 210,000 miles!
>
>


You're overdue by *at least* 100K...

JT

But it seems the fuel filter is not the problem. There is pressure in
the fuel system but none of the fuel injectors are spraying fuel. If I
manually press the injector pin I can get fuel to spray. I checked the
resistance across the two of the fuel injectors and it is Zero. Also I
checked the voltage between yellow black wire at the injector and body
ground. I get battery voltage there. So I am now wondering why the
injectors are not working

Vikram
Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> cvk69 wrote:
> >
> > I took out the fuel filter and put a small can under the fuel line that
> > feeds fuel from the pump. The first couple of time I started the car I
> > didn't hear the pump kick in and no fuel in can. On the third attempt I
> > heard the pump come on faintly. Now the pump, starts immediately and
> > the can fills up quickly. So, does this mean fuel filter is the
> > problem?
> > I have never changed the fuel filter in 210,000 miles!
> >
> >
>
>
> You're overdue by *at least* 100K...
>
> JT

cvk69 wrote:
>
> I did the oil change myself and took the car for a ride around the
> block and then parked it. I tried to start it after a couple of days.
> It just cranks over.
\
-----------------------------------------

It's your main relay because it was sitting in the hot sun, right?
SEARCH google for honda main relay.

Meantime, if it does it again, fill the car with ice cubes OR turn the
key to position II, and smack the dash on the left side of the steering
wheel. You'll hear the fuel pump run for three seconds and the car will
start then start when you crank it.

Resolder the main relay. Don't unbolt it to take it out, just slip it
out of its shell.

'Curly'

I have opened the main relay and it looks perfect inside. I will
resolder it but I think its not where the problem is because there is
voltage on the Yellow-Black wire of the injecto which is supplied by
the main relay. I am wondering what is connected to the other wire of
each of the injectors. That may be the problem.


'Curly Q. Links' wrote:
> cvk69 wrote:
> >
> > I did the oil change myself and took the car for a ride around the
> > block and then parked it. I tried to start it after a couple of days.
> > It just cranks over.
> \
> -----------------------------------------
>
> It's your main relay because it was sitting in the hot sun, right?
> SEARCH google for honda main relay.
>
> Meantime, if it does it again, fill the car with ice cubes OR turn the
> key to position II, and smack the dash on the left side of the steering
> wheel. You'll hear the fuel pump run for three seconds and the car will
> start then start when you crank it.
>
> Resolder the main relay. Don't unbolt it to take it out, just slip it
> out of its shell.
>
> 'Curly'

"cvk69" <vkapoor69@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1154284529.975991.303980@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

> But it seems the fuel filter is not the problem. There is pressure in
> the fuel system but none of the fuel injectors are spraying fuel. If I
> manually press the injector pin I can get fuel to spray. I checked the
> resistance across the two of the fuel injectors and it is Zero. Also I
> checked the voltage between yellow black wire at the injector and body
> ground. I get battery voltage there. So I am now wondering why the
> injectors are not working



The injectors will only pop open if fuel pressure is over 37psi.

Either
1) your fuel filter is plugged (unlikely since the problem came on
suddenly),
2) the fuel pump is weak,
3) or it's running intermittently.

Resolder the Main Relay contacts just to be sure. If that doesn't fix it,
remove the fuel pump (easy on your car) to see whether the sock filter has
fallen off. This can cause fuel starvation when the gas tank level is low.

If the above doesn't work, replace the fuel pump (and the filter while
you're at it).

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

I re-soldered the Main Relay and put the key in II position a couple of
times. Both times the pump started right away. I cranked the car a
couple of times. I still doesn't start.
If I depress the fuel injector tip I get a very fine spray of fuel. So,
I think system is under pressure. I don't have fuel pressure gauge. I
suspect that the injectors are not getting the proper signals to open
on time. The yellow-black wire has battery voltage on it when key is in
Position II. Yellow-black wire on each injector comes from the
Main-Relay.

Where does the other wire on each injector come from? ECU? I am
wondering if something may be telling the ECU not to turn on the
injectors. But then why doesn't my check engine light come on?

Vikram

TeGGeR® wrote:
> "cvk69" <vkapoor69@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:1154284529.975991.303980@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:
>
> > But it seems the fuel filter is not the problem. There is pressure in
> > the fuel system but none of the fuel injectors are spraying fuel. If I
> > manually press the injector pin I can get fuel to spray. I checked the
> > resistance across the two of the fuel injectors and it is Zero. Also I
> > checked the voltage between yellow black wire at the injector and body
> > ground. I get battery voltage there. So I am now wondering why the
> > injectors are not working
>
>
>
> The injectors will only pop open if fuel pressure is over 37psi.
>
> Either
> 1) your fuel filter is plugged (unlikely since the problem came on
> suddenly),
> 2) the fuel pump is weak,
> 3) or it's running intermittently.
>
> Resolder the Main Relay contacts just to be sure. If that doesn't fix it,
> remove the fuel pump (easy on your car) to see whether the sock filter has
> fallen off. This can cause fuel starvation when the gas tank level is low.
>
> If the above doesn't work, replace the fuel pump (and the filter while
> you're at it).
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"cvk69" <vkapoor69@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1154362799.580753.317710@m73g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com:

> I re-soldered the Main Relay and put the key in II position a couple
> of times. Both times the pump started right away. I cranked the car a
> couple of times. I still doesn't start.
> If I depress the fuel injector tip I get a very fine spray of fuel.
> So, I think system is under pressure. I don't have fuel pressure
> gauge. I suspect that the injectors are not getting the proper signals
> to open on time. The yellow-black wire has battery voltage on it when
> key is in Position II. Yellow-black wire on each injector comes from
> the Main-Relay.



Yes, that is the signal wire. It will have voltage at all times when the
key is at II. The injectors will activate once the ECU grounds the other
end of that circuit. This energizes the solenoid coil and opens the
injector.

At idle, the injectors are only open for about three milliseconds, so you
need a good head of steam behind the injector for the right amount of fuel
to be ejected in that tiny span of time. If the fuel pressure is too low,
you won't get enough pressure to push much fuel through the nozzle, and you
may get insufficient fuel to run the engine.

(Also, I was wrong about them not popping open unless pressure was at
37psi. For some reason I had mechanical injectors in mind, which our Hondas
have never had. Had been reading documentation on the Triumph PI system of
the '70s.)


>
> Where does the other wire on each injector come from? ECU? I am
> wondering if something may be telling the ECU not to turn on the
> injectors. But then why doesn't my check engine light come on?



Because there's nothing wrong with your injectors or the ECU.

You have a fuel pump problem, a possible filter problem, or a blockage
somewhere. You might even have a failed fuel pressure regulator diaphragm.

You MUST find a way to get the fuel pressure checked.

One other thing you can do: Remove the low-pressure return hose from the
regulator, install a temporary hose on the regulator, leading into a
measured jar. Now crank the motor for 15 seconds and see how much gas gets
pumped into the jar. I don't know offhand what you ought to find, so just
measure and report back here for now. I'll look it up later.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/