Honda Car Forum

A week ago, I made an 8:00 A.M. appointment at our local Honda dealer
to bring our '03 Accord in for the 45,000 mile service. When I got
there this morning, they said it would be two to two and one-half
hours I didn't want the transmission done (wasn't due) so it was
LOF, some inspections, change the cabin filter and rotate the tires.
Seemed like way too long, but I was willing to wait. My wife and I
went to breakfast.

When we returned, we went directly to the waiting room. Then about
10:00 A.M. I took a walk out to the parking lot to see if the car was
there. It was, and it didn't look like they had done anything to it.
I asked the receptionist/cashier what the status of the car was. She
went to the service advisor, and returned with the info that it would
be at least another hour.

By this time I was getting a little upset, so I said to the
receptionist, "I take it they haven't started yet?" She said, "That's
right." Now we are 2 hours and 15-minutes into the game. At that
point I told her we would just take the car elsewhere. However,
unknown to me, and apparently to her, they actually had done some of
the work. Everything except rotating the tires. I figured, fine, we
can wait for them to rotate the tires. However at about that time,
the service advisor came storming out of his little office, ripped the
key off the ID tag, and handed it to me. The girl said you're good to
go! I said, "But, I haven't paid you yet!" She said, "It was our
mistake. There is no charge." So we left without paying or getting
any kind of report on what they actually did. I suppose they thought
that would appease an angry customer, but it just made me feel guilty.

Did I/they handle this wrong? I am still bummed out about the whole
experience. I have never had a bad experience at this dealer, and
they have done all the service on this car.

Dick

Given all the miscommunications, I would be concerned about
whether they actually did the work or not.

Can you tell whether they rotated the tires?

Do you have any experience with engine oil, so you could
check what's on the dipstick and see if it looks new?

If it appears they did the work, then I personally would go
back and insist on paying for it. I am not wealthy but nor
am I poor, either. I know how hard those guys (and now
sometimes gals) work; how customers (not necessarily you)
often breathe down their necks; how the service manager and
dealer manager can make their lives living hells.

As for the scheduling and timing: I'd cut any car shop at
least as much slack as I cut the doctors and dentists I've
seen in my life. Scheduling for all is very similar and so
very irregular.

May I suggest next time dropping the car off for at least a
half-day? Or, better, ask the shop what they suggest so you
do not do any waiting per se.

"Dick" <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote
>A week ago, I made an 8:00 A.M. appointment at our local
>Honda dealer
> to bring our '03 Accord in for the 45,000 mile service.
> When I got
> there this morning, they said it would be two to two and
> one-half
> hours I didn't want the transmission done (wasn't due)
> so it was
> LOF, some inspections, change the cabin filter and rotate
> the tires.
> Seemed like way too long, but I was willing to wait. My
> wife and I
> went to breakfast.
>
> When we returned, we went directly to the waiting room.
> Then about
> 10:00 A.M. I took a walk out to the parking lot to see if
> the car was
> there. It was, and it didn't look like they had done
> anything to it.
> I asked the receptionist/cashier what the status of the
> car was. She
> went to the service advisor, and returned with the info
> that it would
> be at least another hour.
>
> By this time I was getting a little upset, so I said to
> the
> receptionist, "I take it they haven't started yet?" She
> said, "That's
> right." Now we are 2 hours and 15-minutes into the game.
> At that
> point I told her we would just take the car elsewhere.
> However,
> unknown to me, and apparently to her, they actually had
> done some of
> the work. Everything except rotating the tires. I
> figured, fine, we
> can wait for them to rotate the tires. However at about
> that time,
> the service advisor came storming out of his little
> office, ripped the
> key off the ID tag, and handed it to me. The girl said
> you're good to
> go! I said, "But, I haven't paid you yet!" She said, "It
> was our
> mistake. There is no charge." So we left without paying
> or getting
> any kind of report on what they actually did. I suppose
> they thought
> that would appease an angry customer, but it just made me
> feel guilty.
>
> Did I/they handle this wrong? I am still bummed out about
> the whole
> experience. I have never had a bad experience at this
> dealer, and
> they have done all the service on this car.
>
> Dick

I know they didn't rotate the tires. The service writer said so when
he "handed" me the key. He also said they changed the cabin filter.
I will take a look at the oil. Don't know if I can see the filter on
a V-6. You're probably right. To avoid bad feelings on the next time
I need service, I probably need to pay them for what they did
(whatever it was.) There was a new next due sticker on the
windshield, so I assume they at least did an LOF. I feel really bad
about the whole thing.

Dick

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:51:31 GMT, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

>Given all the miscommunications, I would be concerned about
>whether they actually did the work or not.
>
>Can you tell whether they rotated the tires?
>
>Do you have any experience with engine oil, so you could
>check what's on the dipstick and see if it looks new?
>
>If it appears they did the work, then I personally would go
>back and insist on paying for it. I am not wealthy but nor
>am I poor, either. I know how hard those guys (and now
>sometimes gals) work; how customers (not necessarily you)
>often breathe down their necks; how the service manager and
>dealer manager can make their lives living hells.
>
>As for the scheduling and timing: I'd cut any car shop at
>least as much slack as I cut the doctors and dentists I've
>seen in my life. Scheduling for all is very similar and so
>very irregular.
>
>May I suggest next time dropping the car off for at least a
>half-day? Or, better, ask the shop what they suggest so you
>do not do any waiting per se.

They did not rotate the tires? Not cool.

In that case, unless you chewed them out with venom and
demanded the service for free or something, I don't quite
follow why you feel bad. Your time is valuable, too, after
all.

I wasn't there, so you can better gage whether to try to get
them to take payment for the apparent oil change and cabin
filter.

"Dick" <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote
>I know they didn't rotate the tires. The service writer
>said so when
> he "handed" me the key. He also said they changed the
> cabin filter.
> I will take a look at the oil. Don't know if I can see
> the filter on
> a V-6. You're probably right. To avoid bad feelings on
> the next time
> I need service, I probably need to pay them for what they
> did
> (whatever it was.) There was a new next due sticker on
> the
> windshield, so I assume they at least did an LOF. I feel
> really bad
> about the whole thing.
>
> Dick
>
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:51:31 GMT, "Elle"
> <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Given all the miscommunications, I would be concerned
>>about
>>whether they actually did the work or not.
>>
>>Can you tell whether they rotated the tires?
>>
>>Do you have any experience with engine oil, so you could
>>check what's on the dipstick and see if it looks new?
>>
>>If it appears they did the work, then I personally would
>>go
>>back and insist on paying for it. I am not wealthy but nor
>>am I poor, either. I know how hard those guys (and now
>>sometimes gals) work; how customers (not necessarily you)
>>often breathe down their necks; how the service manager
>>and
>>dealer manager can make their lives living hells.
>>
>>As for the scheduling and timing: I'd cut any car shop at
>>least as much slack as I cut the doctors and dentists I've
>>seen in my life. Scheduling for all is very similar and so
>>very irregular.
>>
>>May I suggest next time dropping the car off for at least
>>a
>>half-day? Or, better, ask the shop what they suggest so
>>you
>>do not do any waiting per se.
>

Dick, the way you describe the events, it sounds like the service advisor
needs to switch to defaffeinated coffee. I'd say HE was the one out of line.
If indeed the things you wrote that were said were the ONLY things said,
then it sounds as if he came out of nowhere and blew up at you. Now, if you
had SCREAMED at them for holding onto the car for 2h 15m for not having
gotten started, then maybe yes you have a right to feel guilty. But you
didn't write it that way, so....

I can appreciate how you feel, though. I would want to offer them at least
something, and let them know you, in effect, meant no harm.

I do all of my own service, but if there were something I needed from a
dealer or other commercial concern, I would let them have the car for at
least four hours. I used to work for one of these places, and I know how
scheduling can get away from even the good service managers.

If there was work done on the vehicle, you are entitled to a printed
statement of what it was, whether they decide to charge you for it or not.
Ask for it.

From your description of what happened, there was something going on with
the service advisor that you are not telling us about, or that you don't
know about. Perhaps the receptionist gave him an incorrect account of how
you were acting in the waiting room. It doesn't sound like acceptable
behavior though. People who work in this business should explain delays in
a timely manner, and should do every thing they can to keep customers aware
of what is going on, even if it is just a simple service.

Earle

"Dick" <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote in message
news:d2ucc299mf71lomrum164gkrmqumhm61pl@4ax.com...
> A week ago, I made an 8:00 A.M. appointment at our local Honda dealer
> to bring our '03 Accord in for the 45,000 mile service. When I got
> there this morning, they said it would be two to two and one-half
> hours I didn't want the transmission done (wasn't due) so it was
> LOF, some inspections, change the cabin filter and rotate the tires.
> Seemed like way too long, but I was willing to wait. My wife and I
> went to breakfast.
>
> When we returned, we went directly to the waiting room. Then about
> 10:00 A.M. I took a walk out to the parking lot to see if the car was
> there. It was, and it didn't look like they had done anything to it.
> I asked the receptionist/cashier what the status of the car was. She
> went to the service advisor, and returned with the info that it would
> be at least another hour.
>
> By this time I was getting a little upset, so I said to the
> receptionist, "I take it they haven't started yet?" She said, "That's
> right." Now we are 2 hours and 15-minutes into the game. At that
> point I told her we would just take the car elsewhere. However,
> unknown to me, and apparently to her, they actually had done some of
> the work. Everything except rotating the tires. I figured, fine, we
> can wait for them to rotate the tires. However at about that time,
> the service advisor came storming out of his little office, ripped the
> key off the ID tag, and handed it to me. The girl said you're good to
> go! I said, "But, I haven't paid you yet!" She said, "It was our
> mistake. There is no charge." So we left without paying or getting
> any kind of report on what they actually did. I suppose they thought
> that would appease an angry customer, but it just made me feel guilty.
>
> Did I/they handle this wrong? I am still bummed out about the whole
> experience. I have never had a bad experience at this dealer, and
> they have done all the service on this car.
>
> Dick

Dick wrote:
> She said, "It was our
> mistake. There is no charge."

Maybe the mistake was not having the car ready at the time it was
promised. Maybe Service has to eat those mistakes and that's why the
guy was angry.

You might as well make an appointment for the tire rotation to complete
the service, get the 45K service documentation and pay them in full. If
they say the oil change was a freebie say thanks. Odds are pretty good
that your problem with Service wasn't the biggest thing at the Service
desk that day.

I think the whole thing amounted to poor communication. When I
inquired about the car, and was told that "they hadn't started on it
yet," that's when I said OK, I want the car. I'll take it to another
dealer. If I had known that most of the work was already done, and
only the tire rotation remained, I would have gone back to watching
TV. But, thinking they hadn't done anything, I wanted my car back.
It was really the receptionist/cashier that threw the wrench into
things by misleading me about the actual status. I assume that when
she later went out to the service writer, she just told them "the
customer is tired of waiting, and wants his car back." It was not
until the service writer gave me the keys that he revealed that they
had finished everything except the tire rotation. None of this would
have happened if I hadn't inquired about the status of the car after
waiting over two hours. I still don't know what the cashier meant
when she said it was their mistake.

Having been in manufacturing management for many years, I know all
about scheduling. When a car is scheduled for routine service, the
dealer knows within a few minutes how long it will take to do it.
They didn't just start doing this. And Honda is not exactly Joe's
Garage. They also know how many bays they have, and how many
mechanics are scheduled to work. When I am given an appointment for
when the shop opens, and I want only routine service, there is no
excuse for taking over three hours. None. If they can't schedule any
better than that, they better go back to school. Even my doctors take
me within 15 minutes from when I arrive. And they have a terrible
reputation for scheduling.

Having a good friend who was a service manager for a major dealership
in town, I know the game they play. They schedule vehicles in lumps
of morning and afternoon. The appointment times they give you are
really meaningless. Then they stack them up in the lot, and start
assigning them to the various work stations at their convenience to
have a steady flow of work to each mechanic. Instead of using
sophisticated scheduling tools, which are certainly available, they
take the easy way out, and leave the customer hanging. Obviously, if
you are having repairs done, that's a different ballgame. To be fair,
I know at least one Honda dealer that does know how to do it. But
he's 80 miles away.

Dick

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:32:35 -0600, "Earle Horton"
<earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote:

>I do all of my own service, but if there were something I needed from a
>dealer or other commercial concern, I would let them have the car for at
>least four hours. I used to work for one of these places, and I know how
>scheduling can get away from even the good service managers.
>
>If there was work done on the vehicle, you are entitled to a printed
>statement of what it was, whether they decide to charge you for it or not.
>Ask for it.
>
>From your description of what happened, there was something going on with
>the service advisor that you are not telling us about, or that you don't
>know about. Perhaps the receptionist gave him an incorrect account of how
>you were acting in the waiting room. It doesn't sound like acceptable
>behavior though. People who work in this business should explain delays in
>a timely manner, and should do every thing they can to keep customers aware
>of what is going on, even if it is just a simple service.
>
>Earle

> Having been in manufacturing management for many years, I know all
> about scheduling. When a car is scheduled for routine service, the
> dealer knows within a few minutes how long it will take to do it.
> They didn't just start doing this. And Honda is not exactly Joe's
> Garage. They also know how many bays they have, and how many
> mechanics are scheduled to work. When I am given an appointment for
> when the shop opens, and I want only routine service, there is no
> excuse for taking over three hours. None. If they can't schedule any
> better than that, they better go back to school. Even my doctors take
> me within 15 minutes from when I arrive. And they have a terrible
> reputation for scheduling.

Having been a service manager of a dealership, and then a store manager for
a national chain,
I can offer this insight of it.
Services like oil changes and tire rotations are done as "lost leaders"
to get your
car in the door, get it in the air, and get the wheels off of it. The
purpose is to check the undercar suspension,
tires, exhaust, and brakes in hopes of selling you a service or parts they
can make money on. There is almost no
money made on oil changes, most technicians make 8 to 10 percent of the
total cost, so there is incentive to
sell you something else, they are, after all, there to make money.
Scheduling an oil change and a tire rotation is easy, and you're right,
it's cut and dried as to the time it takes,
but when something additional is found, requiring more time and additional
service, and maybe the lift they needed
to do your tire rotation, then everything is put off, and delayed. There is
no way to schedule the unknown, not without
a crystal ball. Example, you may find you need an alignment, and they only
have one alignment machine. That changes everything.
Or, your car might require a drive-on type lift instead of a swing arm type,
and they only have so many of them. No
way to schedule that.
Your assertion of poor communication is right on the head. This in my
opinion is the single biggest problem in car repair
related customer complaints. The customer generally has an unrealistic idea
of what's to be done and how long it should take
to do it, based on little or no experience with auto service, and the
service / repair center seldom keeps the customer in the
"loop", which would certainly make things run smoother, and prevent an
experience like yours from occuring again.

My advice would be to go back, insist on speaking with the very manager
who was upset, and with a smile, get all the cards on the
table and explain your position and what your side of it is, leave the
cashier out of it completely. You may just get back
on the right foot, and feel better about your dealership, or, you might see
their true colors. Either way, it'll be worth it.

Spdloader

"Spdloader" <askforit@nospam.triad.rr.com> wrote
> Your assertion of poor communication is right on the
> head. This in my opinion is the single biggest problem in
> car repair
> related customer complaints. The customer generally has an
> unrealistic idea of what's to be done and how long it
> should take
> to do it, based on little or no experience with auto
> service,

Unfortunately it is also my impression that many "upper
class" (sic) folks think auto technicians deserve little
more respect than slaves. They didn't graduate college
(usually); they get their hands dirty; they work a low
paying job (relatively). The technician should be at the
beck and call of "better educated" customers.

Fact is, the automotive technician has skills that take some
serious time and study (even if it's the school of hard
knocks, which can be a lot tougher than the school for which
mum and dad paid so Jr. could get a college degree) to
acquire. Most people are not electro-mechanically passionate
and do not have the patience or mental ability to perform
difficult problem solving.

I would not blame auto technicians if they did exactly what
many doctors, lawyers and other so-called "professionals"
do: Take the customer for as much as possible.

I resent the OP's contention that doctors among others don't
push their customers (screw the word "patient") around. They
treat their customers far worse on average than any auto
shop. They are far less willing to own up to their wretched
and frequent mistakes or their ignorance.

> and the service / repair center seldom keeps the customer
> in the
> "loop", which would certainly make things run smoother,
> and prevent an experience like yours from occuring again.
>
> My advice would be to go back, insist on speaking with
> the very manager who was upset, and with a smile, get all
> the cards on the
> table and explain your position and what your side of it
> is, leave the cashier out of it completely.

What are the chances an MD would not charge for a treatment
that was incomplete?

A few months ago the NY Times reported on how on average,
MDs prescribed only 60% of the standard of care for various
common maladies, serious and minor.

White collar care for clients vs. blue collar care: The
difference is a joke.