Honda Car Forum

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:20:05 -0600, "Earle Horton"
<earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote:

>My $0.02. Steam mixed with combustion gases can erode holes in cylinder
>heads or any metal. I wouldn't leave this too long. Even if you are
>putting in a quart every few hundred miles, the stuff that is leaking out is
>up to no good.
>
Good advice. It will work on the valve seats first and then you have
problems.

Normally only impacts one cylinder, not all of them and that plug
should be fouling out. Do a compression check, see what you got. I'm
still suspecting it is getting out someplace else and you just haven't
found it yet.

Frank

>Earle
>
>"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:7yWlg.8571$o4.2490@newsread2.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>>
>> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpster@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote
>> > Elle wrote:
>> >> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpster@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote
>> >> JT, what "el cheapo block seal treatment" product did you
>> >> use?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > CRC/KDS which is available at most autopart stores for
>> > under $10.
>> >
>> > Follow directions except I doubled the running time and
>> > drying time.
>> > And my car had bubbles in the coolant. I had problems
>> > after with
>> > lowering coolant levels (air in the closed system) but
>> > that was due to a
>> > crack in the elbow of the coolant recovery tank. JB Kwik
>> > Weld took care
>> > of that and the system works perfectly now maintaining the
>> > coolant level
>> > at exactly the "full" mark on the tank.
>>
>> Okay.
>>
>> > Overheating can also result from stuck thermostats or
>> > failing waterpump
>> > though these are not typical on Hondas.
>>
>> Right, but with the loss of coolant, ISTM she's looking at a
>> cylinder head cooling system breach.
>>
>> The water pump was changed just a few months ago, during a
>> timing belt job.
>>
>> Air purges have also been done. She with the shops has been
>> topping off the system as needed. Yet it won't stop
>> overheating every so often.
>>
>> > If no bubbles in the coolant, I would not suspect the need
>> > for block
>> > seal. A clean system seems to be the need here...
>>
>> I will see when she last had a coolant change. Thanks for
>> the input.
>>
>>

"Frank Boettcher" <fboettcher@comcast.net> wrote
> <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote:
>
>>My $0.02. Steam mixed with combustion gases can erode
>>holes in cylinder
>>heads or any metal. I wouldn't leave this too long. Even
>>if you are
>>putting in a quart every few hundred miles, the stuff that
>>is leaking out is
>>up to no good.
>>
> Good advice. It will work on the valve seats first and
> then you have
> problems.
>
> Normally only impacts one cylinder, not all of them and
> that plug
> should be fouling out. Do a compression check, see what
> you got. I'm
> still suspecting it is getting out someplace else and you
> just haven't
> found it yet.

Thanks, Earle and Frank. I urged her to address this and she
has mulled it over and says she is strongly considering
taking it to the dealer tomorrow. Her dealer says it can
check the chemistry and pressurize the cooling system
(presumably for a long period) blah blah to check for
leaking in the engine head. They are charging only about
$50. The dealer said they hesitate to do an engine
compression check when the leak is very slow; not a good use
of money. (You couldn't know how slow it is; just adding
this for the archives.)

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jIZlg.8672$o4.5298@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
> "Frank Boettcher" <fboettcher@comcast.net> wrote
> > <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >>My $0.02. Steam mixed with combustion gases can erode
> >>holes in cylinder heads or any metal. I wouldn't leave this
> >>too long. Even if you are putting in a quart every few
> >>hundred miles, the stuff that is leaking out is up to no
> >>good.
> >>
> > Good advice. It will work on the valve seats first and
> > then you have problems.
> >
> > Normally only impacts one cylinder, not all of them and
> > that plug should be fouling out. Do a compression check,
> > see what you got. I'm still suspecting it is getting out
> > someplace else and you just haven't found it yet.
>
> Thanks, Earle and Frank. I urged her to address this and she
> has mulled it over and says she is strongly considering
> taking it to the dealer tomorrow. Her dealer says it can
> check the chemistry and pressurize the cooling system
> (presumably for a long period) blah blah to check for
> leaking in the engine head. They are charging only about
> $50. The dealer said they hesitate to do an engine
> compression check when the leak is very slow; not a good use
> of money. (You couldn't know how slow it is; just adding
> this for the archives.)
>
One thing that can be done, is to pressurize the cylinders with compressed
air through the spark plug holes, and see which one makes bubbles come out
in the radiator. If you do this, be careful because the engine can suddenly
turn 180º in an attempt to relax the compression. It is good to pressurize
each cylinder with the piston down. They are probably right, that this
won't show up on a compression check, but it might show up as bubbles in the
radiator.

Earle




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Elle wrote:
> "Frank Boettcher" <fboettcher@comcast.net> wrote
>
>><earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My $0.02. Steam mixed with combustion gases can erode
>>>holes in cylinder
>>>heads or any metal. I wouldn't leave this too long. Even
>>>if you are
>>>putting in a quart every few hundred miles, the stuff that
>>>is leaking out is
>>>up to no good.
>>>
>>
>>Good advice. It will work on the valve seats first and
>>then you have
>>problems.
>>
>>Normally only impacts one cylinder, not all of them and
>>that plug
>>should be fouling out. Do a compression check, see what
>>you got. I'm
>>still suspecting it is getting out someplace else and you
>>just haven't
>>found it yet.
>
>
> Thanks, Earle and Frank. I urged her to address this and she
> has mulled it over and says she is strongly considering
> taking it to the dealer tomorrow. Her dealer says it can
> check the chemistry and pressurize the cooling system
> (presumably for a long period) blah blah to check for
> leaking in the engine head.

chemistry check = good, and probably the most reliable. but you can
smell the difference too. compare fresh coolant vs. stuff that's been
in a bubbly motor. the latter smells acrid vs. of the sweet smell of
the fresh stuff.

the problem with compression tests is that the engine needs to be fully
warm, and that can only really happen when the motor's running. it
needs the heat because the thermal expansion can mean parts fit at one
temperature, and not at another. unfortunately, hondas seem to leak
when full hot and not when below that.

> They are charging only about
> $50. The dealer said they hesitate to do an engine
> compression check when the leak is very slow; not a good use
> of money. (You couldn't know how slow it is; just adding
> this for the archives.)
>
>

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote about a
friend's 99 Civic, displaying only a slow loss of coolant
and overheating (plugs look good, as does oil, coolant,
exhaust):
> Her dealer says it can check the chemistry and pressurize
> the cooling system (presumably for a long period) blah
> blah to check for leaking in the engine head. They are
> charging only about $50. The dealer said they hesitate to
> do an engine compression check when the leak is very slow;
> not a good use of money. (You couldn't know how slow it
> is; just adding this for the archives.)

My friend had the dealer service department perform the
tests (not sure exactly which ones, apart from what I
described earlier as their saying they'd do). The dealer
service dept. said her Civic failed the tests miserably. She
had a new head gasket put in. Since she had the work done
there, she's pretty sure the diagnostics were free. Cost:
Around $950.

Moral of the story IMO: Never let your Honda's temperature
gage redline. It may take a few years, but it may very well
come back to bite you.

Elle wrote:
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote about a
> friend's 99 Civic, displaying only a slow loss of coolant
> and overheating (plugs look good, as does oil, coolant,
> exhaust):
>
>>Her dealer says it can check the chemistry and pressurize
>>the cooling system (presumably for a long period) blah
>>blah to check for leaking in the engine head. They are
>>charging only about $50. The dealer said they hesitate to
>>do an engine compression check when the leak is very slow;
>>not a good use of money. (You couldn't know how slow it
>>is; just adding this for the archives.)
>
>
> My friend had the dealer service department perform the
> tests (not sure exactly which ones, apart from what I
> described earlier as their saying they'd do). The dealer
> service dept. said her Civic failed the tests miserably. She
> had a new head gasket put in. Since she had the work done
> there, she's pretty sure the diagnostics were free. Cost:
> Around $950.

given the huge pita that job is, i'd charge at least that much!

>
> Moral of the story IMO: Never let your Honda's temperature
> gage redline. It may take a few years, but it may very well
> come back to bite you.

that ain't necessarily so. head gaskets fail for many reasons, and only
one of them is being overheated. sure, overheating and possible warping
will definitely start the gasket on the road to ruin, but there's also
the mechanical loads caused by thermal cycling, corrosion and in higher
power use, because most honda liners are "unsupported", they can "walk".
i'm actually quite surprised by honda in this regard - i don't think
i'd use the liner configuration they do. aftermarket "closed deck"
inserts can be quite effective in this regard i hear.

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1nkog.3469$ii.1683@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote about a
> friend's 99 Civic, displaying only a slow loss of coolant
> and overheating (plugs look good, as does oil, coolant,
> exhaust):
> > Her dealer says it can check the chemistry and pressurize
> > the cooling system (presumably for a long period) blah
> > blah to check for leaking in the engine head. They are
> > charging only about $50. The dealer said they hesitate to
> > do an engine compression check when the leak is very slow;
> > not a good use of money. (You couldn't know how slow it
> > is; just adding this for the archives.)
>
> My friend had the dealer service department perform the
> tests (not sure exactly which ones, apart from what I
> described earlier as their saying they'd do). The dealer
> service dept. said her Civic failed the tests miserably. She
> had a new head gasket put in. Since she had the work done
> there, she's pretty sure the diagnostics were free. Cost:
> Around $950.
>
> Moral of the story IMO: Never let your Honda's temperature
> gage redline. It may take a few years, but it may very well
> come back to bite you.
>
Good advice for any internal combustion engine.

Earle



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