Honda Car Forum

Wow this is quite surprise to see Hyundai (former maker of Excel)
scores higher
than Toyata and Honda for the consumer satisfaction index. My simply
reaction is
how could it possible that Hyundai is more dependable than Toyota and
Honda.
Forget two expensive Porsche and Lexus. Focus on average price that
average consumer
drive. This JD Powell survey suggests that Hyundai is the overall
winner among all
automakers in US. Still it's bit hard to accept.




http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...-home-highway1

Porsche Shifts Into First in Vehicle Quality Survey
Toyota and Hyundai score high overall and in individual classes. Top
U.S. brand is Cadillac.
By Cynthia H. Cho, Times Staff Writer
June 8, 2006


Porsche of Germany powered into the passing lane, for the first time
landing the top spot in a widely watched auto quality report issued
Wednesday.

The maker of expensive sports cars and luxury sport utility vehicles
rose in the annual J.D. Power & Associates rankings, analysts said,
after addressing customer complaints and adding a highly rated compact
model.

ADVERTISEMENT
The survey was notable as well for what didn't change, as Toyota Motor
Corp. of Japan and the rising Hyundai Motor Co. of South Korea again
scored high marks for overall dependability and in individual vehicle
categories.

Models from Toyota's mainstream brand and Lexus luxury line topped 11
of 19 categories, including compact car (Corolla), mid-size car (Camry)
and six classes of premium cars and trucks.

In its report, Power found that Porsche was the top-scoring brand for
model year 2006, with 91 problems per 100 vehicles. The automaker was
followed by Lexus (93), Hyundai (102) and Toyota (106). The industry
average was 124.

Among U.S. brands, General Motors Corp.'s Cadillac ranked highest, tied
at No. 7. Vehicles from GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group were
rated best in four categories: large car (GM's Pontiac Grand Prix),
large pickup (GM's Chevrolet Silverado LD), mid-size pickup (Ford's
Ranger) and van (Chrysler's Town & Country).

The Power survey - a source of bragging rights for automakers and a
buying guide for many shoppers - measures complaints in the first 90
days of ownership. The results were drawn from nearly 64,000
respondents who bought or leased 2006 model year vehicles.

The initial quality survey was modified for its 20th year. For the
first time, it measured quality of design, evaluating controls and
other interior features, in addition to quality of production, which
measures defects and malfunctions. Because of the methodology changes,
industry analysts and insiders cautioned against making direct
year-to-year comparisons. Nonetheless, they singled out notable trends.

Jamey Power, executive vice president of Westlake Village-based J.D.
Power & Associates, said the study was updated to "reflect the changing
attitude of consumers" and to account for the "new technology and
features that are coming out in today's vehicles."

That might explain why German rivals Mercedes-Benz and BMW ranked 25th
and 27th, respectively, in the overall nameplate ranking, which takes
into account all models produced under the brand name. Mercedes-Benz, a
unit of DaimlerChrylser, had 139 problems per 100 vehicles and BMW had
142.

"A lot of the European brands seek to differentiate themselves by
pushing the envelope of technological sophistication," Power said.
"This can be a challenge when you're pushing the envelope so much that
the customers can't keep pace."

BMW had among the fewest defects and malfunctions, but it had more
design-related problems, the survey found.

But the overall ranking isn't what drivers consider most important,
Power said. Buyers want model-specific information. So for someone
shopping for a compact car, for example, what matters is that the top
models in that segment are the Toyota Corolla, Hyundai's Elantra and
Honda Motor Co.'s Civic.

David Healy, an auto industry analyst with Burnham Securities, said he
wasn't surprised to see Toyota and Lexus ranked high. But he was
surprised to see Hyundai at the No. 3 spot.

"They've done one hell of a job," he said of Hyundai, which has
overcome early customer resistance because of concerns over
reliability. "They have been steadily improving over the last several
years."

Power agreed: "Hyundai has been passionately trying to improve their
quality. They figured that if they were going to survive in the U.S.
market, they had to focus on the American consumer's needs and
requirements. What we are seeing is a payoff for that commitment."

Toyota acknowledged its fast-charging rival.

"They are going to be a bigger and bigger player in the marketplace,"
Jim Lentz, Toyota group vice president and general manager, said of
Hyundai.

Automakers use the data in the study to address consumer-identified
problems, Power said. And that explains why Porsche won the top spot
this year.

Its Cayenne SUV, Power said, had a lot of problems when it came out in
2003, but Porsche has steadily taken care of them. Also, Porsche's
Cayman, which went on sale in January, was ranked highest in the
compact premium sporty car category.


We consider it very encouraging news," Porsche spokesman Tony
Fouladpour said of the brand's first No. 1 nameplate ranking. "For us,
it's verification of what we have known for a while: that our cars do
have a certain design and performance quality unlike any other car."

But it won't stay in that spot forever if Don Dees gets his way.

ADVERTISEMENT"Our goal is to be No. 1," said Dees, vice president of
service and quality for Hyundai. This is the third year in a row that
the company has been in the top 10. "Obviously we are very proud."



Best and worst

How auto makers ranked in J.D. Power's latest survey of auto quality.

Top 10 (In number of problems per 100 vehicles during first 90 days of
ownership)

Porsche: 91

Lexus: 93

Hyundai: 102

Toyota: 106

Jaguar: 109

Honda: 110

Cadillac: 117

Infiniti: 117

GMC: 119

Acura: 120 (tie)

Chrysler: 120 (tie)

This article is useless. "Initial quality" does not mean a damn thing.
Let's just see how many of those Hyundai's hold up after 5-years. While
it's true that Hyundai quality has significantly increased over the years
and the Sonata seems to remain reliable over the long term, the long-term
reliability of other Hyundais is questionable.

High Tech Misfit wrote:
>
> This article is useless. "Initial quality" does not mean a damn thing.
> Let's just see how many of those Hyundai's hold up after 5-years. While
> it's true that Hyundai quality has significantly increased over the years
> and the Sonata seems to remain reliable over the long term, the long-term
> reliability of other Hyundais is questionable.


If I were to buy a new "go to" vehicle, (And I would only do this if I
had money that I could not spend anywhere else), I would consider a
Hyundai based on the 100K (miles) warranty. They must have a
considerable degree of confidence in their product to do so especially
since most modern vehicles are no longer serviceable by the owner.

And the prices are right...

JT

High Tech Misfit wrote:
> This article is useless. "Initial quality" does not mean a damn thing.
> Let's just see how many of those Hyundai's hold up after 5-years. While
> it's true that Hyundai quality has significantly increased over the years
> and the Sonata seems to remain reliable over the long term, the long-term
> reliability of other Hyundais is questionable.

Well said. In addition, Hyundai's suffer a great deal of depreciation,
increasing ownership costs. Someday they'll do better, if their
quality proves itself in the long run like Toyota and Honda. Right now
Hyundai buyers better plan on driving their new car into the ground,
because it may not be worth much in 5 years, unlike the others.

High Tech Misfit wrote:
> This article is useless. "Initial quality" does not mean a damn thing.
> Let's just see how many of those Hyundai's hold up after 5-years. While
> it's true that Hyundai quality has significantly increased over the years
> and the Sonata seems to remain reliable over the long term, the long-term
> reliability of other Hyundais is questionable.


100K miles or 10 yr warrantee could be the reason why Hyundai scores
higher than than Honda or Toyota. 100K miles or 10 yr warrantee
surely provides a long-term reliablity. That's could be the reason
Hyundai receives
the better score than Honda.

Absolutely. I am glad to see Hyundai is improving their quality but there
still is a big problem at trade in time in resale value which is the same
for cars from US car companies [not necessarily made in US though]. I
always here from GM car owners that their car is made just as well as my
Accord which I do not believe but they always shut up when I say lets go
online and check resale value for each when five years old. Compare a Civic
to a Cavalier for instance.--- Steve



"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:dv3c0adrw75z.dlg@hightech.misfit...
> This article is useless. "Initial quality" does not mean a damn thing.
> Let's just see how many of those Hyundai's hold up after 5-years. While
> it's true that Hyundai quality has significantly increased over the years
> and the Sonata seems to remain reliable over the long term, the long-term
> reliability of other Hyundais is questionable.

High Tech Misfit wrote:
> This article is useless. "Initial quality" does not mean a damn thing.
> Let's just see how many of those Hyundai's hold up after 5-years. While
> it's true that Hyundai quality has significantly increased over the years
> and the Sonata seems to remain reliable over the long term, the long-term
> reliability of other Hyundais is questionable.


if its something someone wants to buy and likes to drive, and they take
care of it, it should last a pretty long time. thing is, they dont hold
resale value... so if you buy one, youd best use it. hyundais are bought
by people that usually dont care what they drive, but want something
new. hence, they dont take care of it.

ive seen plenty of tatty civics and accords, with cracked bodykits
flapping in the breeze. theres no resale value there, either.

ive been procrastinating about putting my 1998 civic cx on ebay, just
because i HATE selling things. nothing wrong with my car, i just figure
its about time.

ive looked at the honda fit, and it still doesnt seem to offer the value
the scion xA does, standard. same with the 3dr yaris.

ive already put up a lame movie of my car on youtube, to link to the
auction if and when it occurs. ive got pictures, too. just about
everything except an auction itself. most of the civics ive seen on ebay
are salvage title, and/or high mileage. ive tried to get a trade-in
price from a couple of toyota/scion salesmen, and they all said im
better off selling it myself. didnt even bother to look up the info...

<mmdir2005@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149877956.505976.20940@c74g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
> High Tech Misfit wrote:
>> This article is useless. "Initial quality" does not mean a damn thing.
>> Let's just see how many of those Hyundai's hold up after 5-years. While
>> it's true that Hyundai quality has significantly increased over the years
>> and the Sonata seems to remain reliable over the long term, the long-term
>> reliability of other Hyundais is questionable.
>
>
> 100K miles or 10 yr warrantee could be the reason why Hyundai scores
> higher than than Honda or Toyota. 100K miles or 10 yr warrantee
> surely provides a long-term reliablity. That's could be the reason
> Hyundai receives
> the better score than Honda.

I'd need a 100k Miles/10 Year warranty, plus 24/7 roadside assistance and
100% rental reimbursement.

The warranty is nice, but if your car is in the shop a lot you'll lose the
savings on rentals.