Honda Car Forum

Any number of sites let you list selection criterion like year, cost,
body style and major features (transmission type, etc.), but I was
wondering if anyone knew of a web site that would let you get REALLY
specific about features before presenting you with a list of cars for
consideration.

Like: I want a car with a sunroof, 6M, seats four, 4-wheel ABS disc,
alloys, and gets 30mpg highway.

Anyone remember seeing web site that might do this?

Thanks.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:spt952ddof57ef9dhmmmepc6kdff4q740i@4ax.com...
> Any number of sites let you list selection criterion like year, cost,
> body style and major features (transmission type, etc.), but I was
> wondering if anyone knew of a web site that would let you get REALLY
> specific about features before presenting you with a list of cars for
> consideration.
>
> Like: I want a car with a sunroof, 6M, seats four, 4-wheel ABS disc,
> alloys, and gets 30mpg highway.
>
> Anyone remember seeing web site that might do this?


Not specifically, here's where a certain element of "background awareness"
enters the fray. Here's where you do your legwork, probably using a
filtering system on fuel consumption first and then working your way up the
list of priorities.

But you know, things like wheels are very easily added after you buy the
machine. Alloys don't interest me much from an aesthetics perspective,
lightening the unsprung weight is useful, so I wasn't at all bothered by
this Accord running on steels.

As for wanting X forward gears, here a more important point is the nature of
the gearing and power delivery. Well spaced ratios designed with the power
delivery of the engine in mind is much, much more effective than six ratios
in a 'box taken from a parts bin.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:09:26 GMT, "DervMan" <dervman@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

> As for wanting X forward gears, here a more important point is the nature of
> the gearing and power delivery. Well spaced ratios designed with the power
> delivery of the engine in mind is much, much more effective than six ratios
> in a 'box taken from a parts bin.

Prior to further research, my working assumption would be that whoever
put a six-speed into a car knew what they were doing. Beyond that, of
course, you are correct.

I still think it would be great to see "all six speeds", for example, or
only those cars where side air bags could at least be added as part of
some option group.

Right now I don't know any way of getting to some of information other
than by wading thru page after page of specs on different cars /
options!
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:51:24 -0400, Charles Lasitter
<spoof@address.com> wrote:

>Any number of sites let you list selection criterion like year, cost,
>body style and major features (transmission type, etc.), but I was
>wondering if anyone knew of a web site that would let you get REALLY
>specific about features before presenting you with a list of cars for
>consideration.
>
>Like: I want a car with a sunroof, 6M, seats four, 4-wheel ABS disc,
>alloys, and gets 30mpg highway.
>
>Anyone remember seeing web site that might do this?

I remember seeing places that listed much of what you said in the
comparison data, but you had to pick a vehicle to do it. of course,
its often worth just a playaround, and to know what basic vehicle type
you're after. 6-speeds aren't that common, though, well, I haven't
seen many. V70's have 6 speed in their R, but thats not so good milage
wise.

I'm not sure you'll really find a car with all that, since you want
'sports' features (the 4Wheel disc, 6M) and then you want what is an
economy feature (the 30mpg) - I doubt you'll get both. If you do,
let me know.

>
>Thanks.
>+-----------------------------------------+
>| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
>| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
>| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
>+-----------------------------------------+

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:36:27 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:

> I'm not sure you'll really find a car with all that, since you want
> 'sports' features (the 4Wheel disc, 6M) and then you want what is an
> economy feature (the 30mpg) - I doubt you'll get both. If you do,
> let me know.

I was absolutely floored by what I turned up on searching with "6M" as a
keyword on Sunday. It turns out that a number of Volkwagen models come
jam-packed with features and performance at very attractive prices.

VW has several models with 6M standard, and combined with a Turbo i4
that makes nearly the same torque as the J30 V6 but at 1800 RPM, I
should think it would take off like a kick in the pants!
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:su4b525dfgnoqlsek3iaphqh1ale86ki0l@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:36:27 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure you'll really find a car with all that, since you want
>> 'sports' features (the 4Wheel disc, 6M) and then you want what is an
>> economy feature (the 30mpg) - I doubt you'll get both. If you do,
>> let me know.
>
> I was absolutely floored by what I turned up on searching with "6M" as a
> keyword on Sunday. It turns out that a number of Volkwagen models come
> jam-packed with features and performance at very attractive prices.
>
> VW has several models with 6M standard, and combined with a Turbo i4
> that makes nearly the same torque as the J30 V6 but at 1800 RPM, I
> should think it would take off like a kick in the pants!


It's a lazy engine and VAG build quality is nothing like it used to be. So,
buy at your own peril.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

On Mon, 01 May 2006 08:24:02 GMT, "DervMan" <dervman@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

> It's a lazy engine and VAG build quality is nothing like it used to be. So,
> buy at your own peril.

This may well all be true, but they're offering a 4/50k warranty vs
Honda's 3/36. And here's what really gets me:

All for 2006, VW offers:

Jetta GLI 4Dr/Sdn 2.0L Turbo 6M
GTI 2dr Htcbk 2.0L Turbo 6M
Passat VE 4Dr/Sdn 2.0L Turbo 6M
Jetta 2.0T 4Dr/Sdn 2.0L Turbo 6M

And they all have these safety features standard:

Emergency Brake Assist
Traction Control
Stability Control
Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
DRL
ABS w/4-wheel disk
Alloys on all but the Passat

And you can't get this 4cyl/6M combination from Honda, even normally
aspirated, unless you go with a +$10k Acura TSX. Getting the 6M and
safety features in an Accord means you have to get a V6 EX and shell out
enough to have me looking at entirely different cars.

The only 6M you can get from Toyota is a Corolla TSX, and safety /
performance items like stability / traction control aren't even
available as options.

I just think an unfortunate number of auto makers has missed out on this
combination of performance, safety and fun-to-drive (6M)
characteristics, at the very least in an attractive price range.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

On Mon, 01 May 2006 09:50:47 -0400, Charles Lasitter
<spoof@address.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 01 May 2006 08:24:02 GMT, "DervMan" <dervman@ntlworld.com>
>wrote:
>
>> It's a lazy engine and VAG build quality is nothing like it used to be. So,
>> buy at your own peril.
>
>This may well all be true, but they're offering a 4/50k warranty vs
>Honda's 3/36. And here's what really gets me:
>
>All for 2006, VW offers:
>
>Jetta GLI 4Dr/Sdn 2.0L Turbo 6M
>GTI 2dr Htcbk 2.0L Turbo 6M
>Passat VE 4Dr/Sdn 2.0L Turbo 6M
>Jetta 2.0T 4Dr/Sdn 2.0L Turbo 6M
>
>And they all have these safety features standard:
>
>Emergency Brake Assist
>Traction Control
>Stability Control
>Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
>DRL
>ABS w/4-wheel disk
>Alloys on all but the Passat
>
>And you can't get this 4cyl/6M combination from Honda, even normally
>aspirated, unless you go with a +$10k Acura TSX. Getting the 6M and
>safety features in an Accord means you have to get a V6 EX and shell out
>enough to have me looking at entirely different cars.
>
>The only 6M you can get from Toyota is a Corolla TSX, and safety /
>performance items like stability / traction control aren't even
>available as options.
>
>I just think an unfortunate number of auto makers has missed out on this
>combination of performance, safety and fun-to-drive (6M)
>characteristics, at the very least in an attractive price range.

number of gears doesn't mean 'fun to drive'. one of the most fun cars
i ever drove, was a 70's mini cooper. only 4 gears. my cousin, and her
husband had a pair of golfs, on the other hand, a gti for her, and a
vr6 for him, both rather boring and lazy cars. Father had a golf too,
an 89, was forever breaking down, even with only 30k miles on it.
Exhausts dropping off, went through 5 alternators (including one that
half-melted, and would only charge at idle-speeds)

Its endemic of VAG these days to cut corners. Anyone who's been
following VW for the last 15 years will know how the build quality has
dropped. They're resting on their laurels as the only major non-luxury
european manufacture in north america, well, they're resting
everywhere, but its not hurting them in the US.

Passat's heavy for the 2lT, and the golf's getting too heavy for it
to. its something like twice as heavy as the old golfs (what you'd
know as the rabbit)

Remember as well, that the warentee is good, but only if you only plan
on keeping the car for its duration. VW parts can be as pricey as BMW
or volvo ones, and from experiance, needs them more often.


>+-----------------------------------------+
>| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
>| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
>| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
>+-----------------------------------------+

"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:652c521uqi4ppr8nnn1np5dkj9s1uh0gnq@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 01 May 2006 08:24:02 GMT, "DervMan" <dervman@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>> It's a lazy engine and VAG build quality is nothing like it used to be.
>> So,
>> buy at your own peril.
>
> This may well all be true, but they're offering a 4/50k warranty vs
> Honda's 3/36. And here's what really gets me:

There are very good reasons for this. One is that VAG's quality control is
lacking. Honda are one of the few manufacturers making money on selling
cars. The VAG are not...

> All for 2006, VW offers:
>
> Jetta GLI 4Dr/Sdn 2.0L Turbo 6M
> GTI 2dr Htcbk 2.0L Turbo 6M
> Passat VE 4Dr/Sdn 2.0L Turbo 6M
> Jetta 2.0T 4Dr/Sdn 2.0L Turbo 6M

And most of these are frightfully dull to drive.

> And they all have these safety features standard:
>
> Emergency Brake Assist
> Traction Control
> Stability Control
> Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
> DRL
> ABS w/4-wheel disk
> Alloys on all but the Passat

How exactly is having alloy wheels a safety feature? They can be added
afterwards if wanted.

> And you can't get this 4cyl/6M combination from Honda, even normally
> aspirated, unless you go with a +$10k Acura TSX.

Which compared to the VAGs is an inspired drive.

The latest crop of VWs are better than before, but you'd be delusional if
you bought a Golf or Passat thinking that it's a European tight handler.
The 2.0 litre mark four Golf GTI (_not_ the current one) is a raggy bunch of
bones on a twisty road such that my mildly fettled Ka would show it up when
called for. It may be great having nearly twice the power of the Ka but
with what appeared to be twice the weight and half the linear grip...

> Getting the 6M and
> safety features in an Accord means you have to get a V6 EX and shell out
> enough to have me looking at entirely different cars.

Yes, but you'd be getting a wholly better short and long term ownership
proposition.

> The only 6M you can get from Toyota is a Corolla TSX, and safety /
> performance items like stability / traction control aren't even
> available as options.

Ya like, dude, drop this perception that the more forward gears the better.

> I just think an unfortunate number of auto makers has missed out on this
> combination of performance, safety and fun-to-drive (6M)
> characteristics, at the very least in an attractive price range.

Nooo! Having lots of forward ratios can mean a few things such as:

* The power band is so narrow that it needs lots of ratios.
* The fuel consumption is artificially flattered by an overly long bunch of
top ratios, so you need third for any gradient up or down.
* They fit the X speed manual 'box to the top of the range model and got a
bargain deal on the rest
* They reckon people want more forward gears.

It does not mean that the car is more fun. As I alluded to elsewhere, the
quality and thought of the transmission is relevant. How many gears, that's
mostly academic. It's not unheard of for a given range of cars to get a
certain transmission that works well with, say, the turbodiesel or the GTI.
This 'box and final drive is used on all cars, thus, the cooking model
petrol engines end up having way too long gearing such that one may only use
sixth on the flat.

You also have to consider how good the 'box is to use.

All up, my advice is to get over this "6M" hangup and go some leg work.
Picking the right machine based on technical specifications is all well and
good but you're setting yourself up for some major disappointment.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

On Mon, 01 May 2006 16:53:12 GMT, "DervMan" <dervman@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

> All up, my advice is to get over this "6M" hangup and go some leg work.
> Picking the right machine based on technical specifications is all well and
> good but you're setting yourself up for some major disappointment.

I drove the 6M Passat today, and I was very favorably impressed.

I like the transmission. Very tight, short throws compared to the Honda
5M.

And there were a number of features Edmunds forgot to mention, like
limited slip differential, which I also like.

It also has a trip computer that I REALLY like, giving you your fuel
economy RIGHT NOW, a compass, and external temperature display.

The feature list on my Honda LX is pitiful by comparison.

I have no doubt as the the reliability of my Honda. I'm just saying
that we deserve more of the standard features that everyone else gets to
take for granted.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+