Honda Car Forum

I had the Motorvac service done today by a local Canadian Tire franchise.
Stupid, stupid me. I figured, how bad could they possibly **** up something
that simple? (I've never said "****" before, have I?)

Well, the monkey they'd hired DID **** it up that bad ("but he's been a
mechanic for 15 years!").
Word to the wise: DO NOT patronize Canadian Tire. They hire the same
moronic simians AutoZone does. Y'see, AutoStupe does not do business in
Canada, so the grunting Neanderthal knuckle-draggers that happen to be
Canadian residents get jobs with Crappy Tire instead of AutoStupe.

Not only did the monkey botch the job badly, the manager gave me my money
back AND offered to pay me (at his shop rate) whatever it took me to fix my
back seat, which the monkey *really* messed up in his misguided attempt at
accessing the fuel pump. I will charge him 3 hours at $70 per hour. Let's
see how well that goes over...

WAY too much detail to write here.

The basics:

Pictures of back seat removal here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...ump_back-seat/
These are straight off the camera, no Photoshopping or captions. I'm too
exhausted to do that right now.

It took me two hours just to bend the back seat cushion bars straight again
so everything worked properly and there was no looseness. That back seat is
pretty flimsy. It weighs about ten pounds. It's basically a wire perimeter
with foam formed around it and a fabric skin. I must have had it in and out
at least 18 times before it fit properly again.

The monkey tried to remove the back seat to get at the fuel pump. All he
did was wreck things because he didn't know how it went together. He never
did get at the fuel pump.

Oh, and the Motorvac service? It made the vibration WORSE. We definitely
have a fuel delivery problem here.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns97B3D69D5F756tegger@207.14.113.17:


>
> Not only did the monkey botch the job badly, the manager gave me my
> money back AND offered to pay me (at his shop rate) whatever it took
> me to fix my back seat, which the monkey *really* messed up in his
> misguided attempt at accessing the fuel pump. I will charge him 3
> hours at $70 per hour. Let's see how well that goes over...



I ended up getting sixty bucks worth of free stuff.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR® wrote:
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns97B3D69D5F756tegger@207.14.113.17:
>
>
>
>>Not only did the monkey botch the job badly, the manager gave me my
>>money back AND offered to pay me (at his shop rate) whatever it took
>>me to fix my back seat, which the monkey *really* messed up in his
>>misguided attempt at accessing the fuel pump. I will charge him 3
>>hours at $70 per hour. Let's see how well that goes over...
>
>
>
>
> I ended up getting sixty bucks worth of free stuff.

Hmmm, maybe some really good Motomaster spark plugs and wires??

Man, that sucks... I'd ALMOST have sympathy for ya, but you REALLY
should have known better in the first place...


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Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:VFM5g.106888$WI1.54245@pd7tw2no:

> TeGGeR® wrote:
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
>> news:Xns97B3D69D5F756tegger@207.14.113.17:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Not only did the monkey botch the job badly, the manager gave me my
>>>money back AND offered to pay me (at his shop rate) whatever it took
>>>me to fix my back seat, which the monkey *really* messed up in his
>>>misguided attempt at accessing the fuel pump. I will charge him 3
>>>hours at $70 per hour. Let's see how well that goes over...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I ended up getting sixty bucks worth of free stuff.
>
> Hmmm, maybe some really good Motomaster spark plugs and wires??



Eleven quarts of Castrol 5W-30 and two bottles of STP injector cleaner. I
wouldn't buy that Motomaster crap.



>
> Man, that sucks... I'd ALMOST have sympathy for ya, but you REALLY
> should have known better in the first place...



Yeah, I know. But Motorvac isn't common where I live. Crappy Tire was one
of only four places, and the other three I trusted even less.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR® wrote:

>>Man, that sucks... I'd ALMOST have sympathy for ya, but you REALLY
>>should have known better in the first place...
>
> Yeah, I know. But Motorvac isn't common where I live. Crappy Tire was one
> of only four places, and the other three I trusted even less.

Stupid question then, but what's "Motorvac"? Sounds like a name for a
techno band.


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Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:LZX5g.110512$WI1.16582@pd7tw2no:

> TeGGeR® wrote:
>
>>>Man, that sucks... I'd ALMOST have sympathy for ya, but you REALLY
>>>should have known better in the first place...
>>
>> Yeah, I know. But Motorvac isn't common where I live. Crappy Tire was
>> one of only four places, and the other three I trusted even less.
>
> Stupid question then, but what's "Motorvac"? Sounds like a name for a
> techno band.
>
>


Motorvac is an on-car injector/top end cleaning procedure. It uses a
special machine and a powerful solvent. The brand used to be owned by Snap-
On. I forget who owns it now.

After much investigation, it looks like it's the injectors themselves
that's causing the problem. I have to find a place that can do an "injector
pressure-drop test", which will tell me whether the injectors are all
firing the same or not. If one is out of sync with the others, they'll have
to come out for bench testing.

In retrospect, I guess I'm lucky. In 15 years and 266,000 miles, this is
the very first driveability problem I've ever had with this car.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR® wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
> news:LZX5g.110512$WI1.16582@pd7tw2no:
>
>
>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Man, that sucks... I'd ALMOST have sympathy for ya, but you REALLY
>>>>should have known better in the first place...
>>>
>>>Yeah, I know. But Motorvac isn't common where I live. Crappy Tire was
>>>one of only four places, and the other three I trusted even less.
>>
>>Stupid question then, but what's "Motorvac"? Sounds like a name for a
>>techno band.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Motorvac is an on-car injector/top end cleaning procedure. It uses a
> special machine and a powerful solvent. The brand used to be owned by Snap-
> On. I forget who owns it now.
>
> After much investigation, it looks like it's the injectors themselves
> that's causing the problem. I have to find a place that can do an "injector
> pressure-drop test", which will tell me whether the injectors are all
> firing the same or not. If one is out of sync with the others, they'll have
> to come out for bench testing.
>
> In retrospect, I guess I'm lucky. In 15 years and 266,000 miles, this is
> the very first driveability problem I've ever had with this car.
>
>
if it were my car, i'd go straight for the "remove for cleaning" phase.
ultrasonic cleaning plus solvents should do the trick. and if not,
there are aftermarket performance injectors that work well and aren't
outrageously expensive.

for the future, i'd be a lot more generous with injector cleaner. i
know gas is supposed to have a degree of detergency from the pump, but
auto manufacturers are having consistent reliability problems because
the detergency level rules were relaxed a few years ago and vehicles are
now gumming up all the time. one could go into the whole paranoia about
oilco's and the benefits of both saving ingredient costs and gummed up
injection systems causing reduced gas mileage, but that would be way off
base...

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> After much investigation, it looks like it's the injectors
> themselves
> that's causing the problem. I have to find a place that
> can do an "injector
> pressure-drop test", which will tell me whether the
> injectors are all
> firing the same or not. If one is out of sync with the
> others, they'll have
> to come out for bench testing.

Tegger, this testing sounds like it's going to be expensive.
Why not just replace the injectors? Seems like a remanned
set of four may be had for under $200 U.S.

What's your overall plan of attack here, assuming you go
ahead with testing and the tests indicate ___ is bad?

Obviously I'm not an expert. I am following the thread on
this at rec.autos.tech , where I don't see anyone suggesting
similar, so I must be missing something. Just curious about
all this and trying to learn.

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:Mm26g.5123$DT5.3575@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>> After much investigation, it looks like it's the injectors
>> themselves
>> that's causing the problem. I have to find a place that
>> can do an "injector
>> pressure-drop test", which will tell me whether the
>> injectors are all
>> firing the same or not. If one is out of sync with the
>> others, they'll have
>> to come out for bench testing.
>
> Tegger, this testing sounds like it's going to be expensive.
> Why not just replace the injectors? Seems like a remanned
> set of four may be had for under $200 U.S.



Testing might not be that expensive, I don't know. First I have to phone
around for somebody who even does that kind of thing.



>
> What's your overall plan of attack here, assuming you go
> ahead with testing and the tests indicate ___ is bad?


1) Cooling system service
2) Check TPS again
3) Injector testing

So far NOTHING's tested bad. Comboverfish has objections to the factory-
specified test methods, and he's pretty knowledgeable, so I'll recheck
stuff his way just to be sure.

This weekend I'm doing my yearly cooling system sereice, and will replace
the thermostat and temp sender. Just in case.

Just today I learned that my fuel pressure is absolutely perfect: 40 psi.
The acceptable range is 37-44 psi. So that's one more thing that doesn't
seem to be wrong.

I'll check the TPS again (properly this time; Comboverfish was right about
the wrong wire I was checking). Frankly I'm not anticipating that it will
be found to be bad. The symptoms are wrong for a bad TPS anyway.

If the TPS is good, it will be time to investigate the injectors, as that
will be the last thing left. Personally, I have a hunch it will turn out to
be a weak coil on one of the injectors.

Hmm... I never checked ignition timing. It was spot-on last time I looked.
I'll check that too just to be sure.



>
> Obviously I'm not an expert. I am following the thread on
> this at rec.autos.tech , where I don't see anyone suggesting
> similar, so I must be missing something. Just curious about
> all this and trying to learn.


So am I. It's not like an old non-emissions carburetor and Kettering
distributor, which was pretty simple to figure out.

I won't post back to rec.autos.tech until I check the TPS peoperly.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:6ZednWkvObwBM8XZRVn-tw@speakeasy.net:

> TeGGeR® wrote:

>>
> if it were my car, i'd go straight for the "remove for cleaning"
> phase.



That will likely be the next step. But first I want to eliminate as many
other variables as possible.

I'm not sure cleaning will do anything, frankly. Two Motorvacs have had no
effect. I think the problem is electrical. My mechanic says that's the most
common injector failure mode.

We'll see.



> ultrasonic cleaning plus solvents should do the trick. and if not,
> there are aftermarket performance injectors that work well and aren't
> outrageously expensive.
>
> for the future, i'd be a lot more generous with injector cleaner.


I plan to be.




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/