Honda Car Forum

On 4 May 2006 00:43:29 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>news:6ZednWkvObwBM8XZRVn-tw@speakeasy.net:
>
>> TeGGeR® wrote:
>
>>>
>> if it were my car, i'd go straight for the "remove for cleaning"
>> phase.
>
>
>
>That will likely be the next step. But first I want to eliminate as many
>other variables as possible.
>
>I'm not sure cleaning will do anything, frankly. Two Motorvacs have had no
>effect. I think the problem is electrical. My mechanic says that's the most
>common injector failure mode.
>
>We'll see.
>

I know people who have had multiple injector failures with Nissans and
GMs and they have always been electrical. Other than those two
manufacturers, I can't recall too many cases of injector failures.
Specifically I can't recall ever of hearing of a Honda injector
failure before.

Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On 4 May 2006 00:43:29 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>
>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>>news:6ZednWkvObwBM8XZRVn-tw@speakeasy.net:
>>
>>
>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>
>>>if it were my car, i'd go straight for the "remove for cleaning"
>>>phase.
>>
>>
>>
>>That will likely be the next step. But first I want to eliminate as many
>>other variables as possible.
>>
>>I'm not sure cleaning will do anything, frankly. Two Motorvacs have had no
>>effect. I think the problem is electrical. My mechanic says that's the most
>>common injector failure mode.
>>
>>We'll see.
>>
>
>
> I know people who have had multiple injector failures with Nissans and
> GMs and they have always been electrical. Other than those two
> manufacturers, I can't recall too many cases of injector failures.
> Specifically I can't recall ever of hearing of a Honda injector
> failure before.

Well, there's a first time for everything... trust TeGGeR to be the one!


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"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:Mm26g.5123$DT5.3575@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>> After much investigation, it looks like it's the injectors
>> themselves
>> that's causing the problem. I have to find a place that
>> can do an "injector
>> pressure-drop test", which will tell me whether the
>> injectors are all
>> firing the same or not. If one is out of sync with the
>> others, they'll have
>> to come out for bench testing.
>
> Tegger, this testing sounds like it's going to be expensive.
> Why not just replace the injectors? Seems like a remanned
> set of four may be had for under $200 U.S.



Guess what? I just got a set of injectors. OEM. for $10 per injector.

I called a local U-Pull wrecker's this morning after doing the cooling
system over the weekend (which had no effect). They had maybe a dozen
Integras of various years there, and I was invited to go back and have a
look.

The parts counterman said they cost about $90 new, so I could have them for
$10 each! He obviously hasn't ever priced new OEM Keihin injectors!

My guy told me I could use injectors from either an '88-'89 Prelude, or a
'90-91 Integra, all of which use the same part number. I ended up finding a
'91 Integra GS with about 95,000 miles on it (yeah, 95K), and grabbed
those.

Most of the other Integras were all up around 150-190K miles.



>
> What's your overall plan of attack here, assuming you go
> ahead with testing and the tests indicate ___ is bad?



The next step is those injectors. I have to wait 'till tomorrow, when I
will acquire a new set of rubber sealing rings.

If new injectors don't fix this, I'm only out about $60 total and I will
have almost-new injectors, so it's worth a gamble.


There will be pictures, of course. Stay tuned...


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
snip for brevity all comments noted
> The next step is those injectors. I have to wait 'till
> tomorrow, when I
> will acquire a new set of rubber sealing rings.
>
> If new injectors don't fix this, I'm only out about $60
> total and I will
> have almost-new injectors, so it's worth a gamble.
>
>
> There will be pictures, of course. Stay tuned...

You bet. Good job at the U-Pull Wreckers. Sounds like a good
investment to me. I look forward to your update.

I too had luck at my local Honda junkyard this past
Saturday. Amazingly, I quickly located a bent control arm,
literally just lying around, for my suspension renovation
project. After some false starts, today I made real progress
pulling this old control arm's larger bushing. I am not
quite there yet. I will update in the other thread I have
going on this. Hopefully I will have a methodology for the
amateur (based of course on much input here) that is not too
labor intensive nor does it require a mega-ton hydraulic
shop press.

"Elle" <honda.lioness@spamno.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:CKS7g.240$x4.116@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink .net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> snip for brevity all comments noted
>> The next step is those injectors. I have to wait 'till
>> tomorrow, when I
>> will acquire a new set of rubber sealing rings.
>>
>> If new injectors don't fix this, I'm only out about $60
>> total and I will
>> have almost-new injectors, so it's worth a gamble.
>>
>>
>> There will be pictures, of course. Stay tuned...
>
> You bet. Good job at the U-Pull Wreckers. Sounds like a good
> investment to me. I look forward to your update.
>
> I too had luck at my local Honda junkyard this past
> Saturday. Amazingly, I quickly located a bent control arm,
> literally just lying around, for my suspension renovation
> project. After some false starts, today I made real progress
> pulling this old control arm's larger bushing. I am not
> quite there yet. I will update in the other thread I have
> going on this. Hopefully I will have a methodology for the
> amateur (based of course on much input here) that is not too
> labor intensive nor does it require a mega-ton hydraulic
> shop press.
>
>
>


I'm watching that. The machine shop that did my bushings last year has gone
T.U., so I was contemplating pushing them in and out myself.

I was just going to use a 6" bench vise and some heat. I was going to heat
up the control arm with a torch (gently), and put the new bushings in the
freezer for a while, kind of like what they do when replacing a ring gear
on a flywheel.

Last year the machinist told me the smaller bushings on the rear came out
very easily with an air chisel because they were so small. The big ones
needed much of the capacity of the press he used.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Matt Ion wrote:
> Gordon McGrew wrote:
> >
> > Specifically I can't recall ever of hearing of a Honda injector
> > failure before.
>
> Well, there's a first time for everything... trust TeGGeR to be the one!
>
Nope, TeGGeR is not the first.
ALL early Integras had defective injectors. Production in 1986, 1987
and maybe into 1988. Mostly they worked for around 50K to 60K miles. I
used Techron on a routine basis and got about 95K out of mine. Had to
replace all 4. Honda should have covered this since all these cars came
back for the same problem. Techs. were well versed in the replacement
procedure. I recall buying the parts for about $50 or $60 each at the
time.

I recall going thru all the same diagnostics before determining the
injectors had to go. I had to pay for 1 hour in labor for diagnosis,
but the techs were pretty sure they know what was up. So I provided
some parts and they did some useful work inside the hour.

dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com wrote in
news:1147261238.726455.93960@y43g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com:

> Matt Ion wrote:
>> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> >
>> > Specifically I can't recall ever of hearing of a Honda injector
>> > failure before.
>>
>> Well, there's a first time for everything... trust TeGGeR to be the
>> one!
>>
> Nope, TeGGeR is not the first.
> ALL early Integras had defective injectors. Production in 1986, 1987
> and maybe into 1988. Mostly they worked for around 50K to 60K miles. I
> used Techron on a routine basis and got about 95K out of mine. Had to
> replace all 4. Honda should have covered this since all these cars
> came back for the same problem. Techs. were well versed in the
> replacement procedure. I recall buying the parts for about $50 or $60
> each at the time.



Well, there's an update. My injectors appear to have been just fine. I
replaced them to no change at all in the vibration. See the thread in
rec.autos.tech for more.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> Well, there's an update. My injectors appear to have been
> just fine. I
> replaced them to no change at all in the vibration. See
> the thread in
> rec.autos.tech for more.

Have you ruled out the oxygen sensor?

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:%4r8g.1037$Jf.529@newsread4.news.pas.earthlin k.net:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>> Well, there's an update. My injectors appear to have been
>> just fine. I
>> replaced them to no change at all in the vibration. See
>> the thread in
>> rec.autos.tech for more.
>
> Have you ruled out the oxygen sensor?
>
>
>


Good point. I just called my guy and he says it's definitely not the oxygen
sensor. Now he's saying...maybe it is...one of the engine mounts.

We've already ruled out the front mount, which leaves the rear
(a *PIG* to get at...) or one of the side mounts. They're $100 each.

I wanna see what Comboverfish says. I'm also mulling over letting the
dealer try their hand at it...

Nobody's posted to the thread in rec.autos.tech yet.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>> Well, there's an update. My injectors appear to have
>>> been
>>> just fine. I
>>> replaced them to no change at all in the vibration. See
>>> the thread in
>>> rec.autos.tech for more.
>>
>> Have you ruled out the oxygen sensor?
>
> Good point. I just called my guy and he says it's
> definitely not the oxygen
> sensor. Now he's saying...maybe it is...one of the engine
> mounts.
>
> We've already ruled out the front mount, which leaves the
> rear
> (a *PIG* to get at...) or one of the side mounts. They're
> $100 each.

Yet I noticed you felt there were a lot of signs that it was
electrical in nature...

I hope this mystery is solved soon!

> I wanna see what Comboverfish says. I'm also mulling over
> letting the
> dealer try their hand at it...
>
> Nobody's posted to the thread in rec.autos.tech yet.

Yes, I'm still watching the rec.autos.tech thread.

Was looking at your FAQ site and see a bunch of people have
since submitted to the "Readers' Rides" section. Nice. Also,
interesting: Black seems to be the color of choice for Honda
enthusiasts. My Civic is black, too.

More importantly, I just emailed Merle (listed at the
Readers' Rides site) about his new control arm bushings. I
am having second thoughts about the Mugen's, based on J.
Beam's comments that they're harsher than he likes, and want
to see what Merle has and how they feel.