Honda Car Forum

Well I just had the fun task of changing out my waterpump on my civic,
got the thing all back in time putting everything together and the last
step was to put the valve cover on. When I was putting it on I didnt
know I wasnt supposed to put much strength into it, and it snapped the
two front bolts on my valve cover.

There are a total of 4 bolts in all that hold this valve cover down. I
was just wondering if someone knew how to replace the bad bolts and if
you have any other suggestions instead of replacing the bolts. Could I
instead take out the rubber washer and replace it with some type of
sealant and then use a nut to tighten it down.. I dont know I am kinda
lost on this one, hopefully you guys can help me out.

Hey, saw your post yesterday IIRC and thought I'd offer two
cents, based on my own 91 Civic and the drawings at places
Majestic Honda.

Is there anything at all left of the stud, such that you can
attach a vise grip and try to free it? Dunno if you noticed
it yet, but from
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...DER+HEAD+COVER

and some drawings in my Chilton manual, these studs appear
to be threaded at both ends. Dunno why the drawing specifies
only two of these bolts. I could be missing something.

Apply PB Blaster (taking care not to let it get into the
cylinder head area), and try to free them with a vise grip
or tiny pipe wrench. If that fails, I think drilling (with
the correct size bit), and then applying the correct size
EZ-Out may work.

Hopefully you have other wheels to get you to parts stores
to troubleshoot this.

Only 7 ft-lbs of torque is needed to tighten the nuts on
these bolts. A low range torque wrench, available at places
like Harbor Freight, is a good investment for $30 or less,
typically.

<sipherx@gmail.com> wrote
> Well I just had the fun task of changing out my waterpump
> on my civic,
> got the thing all back in time putting everything together
> and the last
> step was to put the valve cover on. When I was putting it
> on I didnt
> know I wasnt supposed to put much strength into it, and it
> snapped the
> two front bolts on my valve cover.
>
> There are a total of 4 bolts in all that hold this valve
> cover down. I
> was just wondering if someone knew how to replace the bad
> bolts and if
> you have any other suggestions instead of replacing the
> bolts. Could I
> instead take out the rubber washer and replace it with
> some type of
> sealant and then use a nut to tighten it down.. I dont
> know I am kinda
> lost on this one, hopefully you guys can help me out.
>

Thanks for your help, as your were probably typing this I was outside
taking my valve cover off again, and I took a 3/4 size deepwell socket
to the bolt and removed it along with the stud. It is threaded on both
sides with a nut in the middle sort of. Kinda hard to explain. But I
have a buddy with the same 91 civic as mine and his motor is crap so I
am gonna try and get someone to run me by his house to take off his
bolts, and hopefully that will solve this problem.

One more question though without having to buy another tool (i am
pretty broke right now) About how tight should I make the bolt, no more
then just one hand tight with a ratchet?

And should I replace the rubber gasket or anything?

Heh thats the part I need right there. So just incase anyone else runs
into this problem and doesnt have a friend with a parts car, this is
the part you will most likely need.

Its on the website that the guy posted earlier, much appreciated.

83198 010 2 BOLT B, CYL HD CVR

<sipherx@gmail.com> wrote
> Thanks for your help, as your were probably typing this I
> was outside
> taking my valve cover off again, and I took a 3/4 size
> deepwell socket
> to the bolt and removed it along with the stud. It is
> threaded on both
> sides with a nut in the middle sort of. Kinda hard to
> explain.

That's consistent with the drawings at the parts site I gave
earlier. I also just googled this group's archives, and
others seem to have had plenty of success using your
approach or drilling and "EZ-outing." People also say these
studs are notorious for breaking (or, um, people are
notorious for overtorquing them beyond the required 7
ft-lbs.)

> But I
> have a buddy with the same 91 civic as mine and his motor
> is crap so I
> am gonna try and get someone to run me by his house to
> take off his
> bolts, and hopefully that will solve this problem.
>
> One more question though without having to buy another
> tool (i am
> pretty broke right now) About how tight should I make the
> bolt, no more
> then just one hand tight with a ratchet?

I really don't even want to say anything like it's half a
turn after you feel resistance. I do try to keep some kind
of tabs on what force I'm applying at X distance from the
bolt centerline when I'm using an actual torque wrench. But
this is tricky. You could easily end up overtorquing or
undertorquing by 50%.

Here's a really cheap route: Go to Wal-Mart and buy one of
those fish scales that go up to maybe 20 lbs. I saw some for
around $5 not long ago. Rig something up to attach the scale
to the end of the appropriate wrench. Say the wrench is six
inches long. Then apply 14 lbs. of force, measuring with the
scale. That gives about 7 ft-lbs. of torque.

You could try to calibrate other springs you have lying on.
Use water to calibrate it. A pint of water weighs about a
pound.

> And should I replace the rubber gasket or anything?

The four rubber washers beneath the four cap nuts that go on
the studs do harden from heat and age and do eventually
leak. I'd replace them about every 100k miles. My own 91
Civic's started leaking I think around 150k miles, 13 years.
They are $2 each online. Try www.cheapesthondaparts.com for
the best shipping prices.

I urge not going with non-OEM rubber parts for Hondas. From
my and others' experience, these do not last. You pay a
little more for the OEM rubber parts, but you really do get
more life out of them, too.

P.S. It was some guy with an Accord having busted stud
problems similar to yours who posted the other day.

<sipherx@gmail.com> wrote
> Heh thats the part I need right there. So just incase
> anyone else runs
> into this problem and doesnt have a friend with a parts
> car, this is
> the part you will most likely need.
>
> Its on the website that the guy posted earlier, much
> appreciated.
>
> 83198 010 2 BOLT B, CYL HD CVR

For the archives, the aforementioned Majestic Honda parts
site doesn't give actual Honda part numbers. One can go to
www.slhonda.com , get the same drawings and part listings,
and also get the actual Honda part numbers.

Salvage yards are also an option for getting replacement
studs.

Gal "Elle"

On 2006-04-19, Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

> Here's a really cheap route: Go to Wal-Mart and buy one of
> those fish scales that go up to maybe 20 lbs. I saw some for
> around $5 not long ago. Rig something up to attach the scale
> to the end of the appropriate wrench. Say the wrench is six
> inches long. Then apply 14 lbs. of force, measuring with the
> scale. That gives about 7 ft-lbs. of torque.

Bad idea. Spring fish scales are notoriously inaccurate. A $5 one is
likely close to useless. Add the likelyhood of the pull vector not
being exactly 90 deg and the pull point not being exactly 6 inches and
we're probably real close to getting back to that 50% error you were
speaking of. The OP is saving big bucks by doing himself. Use the
savings to get a good torque wrench.

> You could try to calibrate other springs you have lying on.
> Use water to calibrate it. A pint of water weighs about a
> pound.

"About" adds another 4% inaccuracy. Get a torque wrench.

nb

notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote in
news:jvKdnZS559KOBtvZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@comcast.com:


>
> "About" adds another 4% inaccuracy. Get a torque wrench.
>


A cheap beam type is about $20, will work just fine and is sold in any
hardware store. It's all I use for light stuff like valve cover nuts. It's
even good for setting preload on tapered wheel bearings, as that's often a
pound or less.

What also helps is to learn what it feels like when a bolt is near its
correct torque. Feels like a sudden ramp-up in effort needed to turn the
bolt. Knowing that sensation will help prevent overtorquing when you are
unable to use a proper torque wrench on your fastener.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

> notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote

>> "About" adds another 4% inaccuracy. Get a torque wrench.

You apparently are unaware of how inaccurate the tension
applied to a bolt via torquing it is even when using a
calibrated torque wrench.

Getting a click at 7 ft-lbs. with a calibrated torque wrench
only assures one is in the ball park for proper fastening.

Elle wrote:
>>notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote
>
>
>>>"About" adds another 4% inaccuracy. Get a torque wrench.
>
>
> You apparently are unaware of how inaccurate the tension
> applied to a bolt via torquing it is even when using a
> calibrated torque wrench.
>
> Getting a click at 7 ft-lbs. with a calibrated torque wrench
> only assures one is in the ball park for proper fastening.

Elle,

I'm not very good with the science of statistics, but I think you are
definitely wrong. Sure, if I took my 1/2", drive decent quality
(Craftsman) beam torque wrench and tried to accurately hit 7lbs. I'd
fail. The reason is, relative to the range or scale that wrench is
designed for or calibrated for, 7 ft.*lbs. isn't much. I *think* my 1/2"
wrench goes up to 150 ft.*lbs. |7|/150 is less than 5%. I'm sure there
are torque wrenches out there(1/4" drive) that could measure that torque
accurately. Also, I think the torque measurment will not be applicable
if the fastener is deformed significantly and dirty(which I think you
were including in what you were trying to say).

Mark

P.S. When I started fixing my first Honda ('91 DX Sedan), I broke one of
the studs for the valve cover like the OP. That's when I started to
figure out that It'd be worthwhile for me to get a torque wrench. I
think you can get wrenches for bicycles that are measured in in.*lbs.