Honda Car Forum

"Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote in message
newsEnWf.53702$F_3.26587@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net...
>
> "mpwilliams" <m.p.williams@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:OwnWf.7947$x94.5381@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>> "Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote in message
>> news:nSkWf.6585$4L1.4941@newssvr11.news.prodigy.co m...
>>>
>>> "mpwilliams" <m.p.williams@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:GleWf.9022$Bj7.8329@newsread2.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>>>> "Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote in message
>>>> news:yG3Wf.48944$2O6.18664@newssvr12.news.prodigy. com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:AOadnfQyj-cKILXZRVn-rQ@speakeasy.net...
>>>>>> Bob Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any
>>>>>>>>good. i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter
>>>>>>>>gasket in place, then screw a new filter and gasket on top of it on
>>>>>>>>my civic once. he looked most "confused" when a fountain of oil
>>>>>>>>sprayed literally 3' out of the engine compartment. so i say again,
>>>>>>>>there's no guarantee that a honda tech is better than any other on
>>>>>>>>the dumb as rocks stuff like this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No matter where you go, there is always a chance they will screw it
>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I took my new car to the dealer for its first oil change. When it
>>>>>>> was all done, I started the engine. A lot of smoke came out. A
>>>>>>> senior mechanic came out and he said some oil got spilled on the
>>>>>>> engine. He flushed the oil off the engine but I still had to smell
>>>>>>> the oil burning for the next 30 miles. I also found out later they
>>>>>>> put 5 quarts of oil in there when it only needs 41/2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was very surprised. I am not a mechanic. I have
>>>>>>> only done oil change myself a few times before and never had any
>>>>>>> problems. So I am going to do my own maintanence from now on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They recommend changing the drain plug gasket every time to avoid
>>>>>>> leaking. I just don't buy it. There must be design flaw if an old
>>>>>>> gasket can damage the oil pan.
>>>>>> it's not the gasket that's causing damage, it's over-torque of the
>>>>>> drain plug stripping threads out of the pan. there's only so much a
>>>>>> manufacturer can do to idiot-proof something so basic. personally,
>>>>>> i've never stripped a drain plug and i only replace the gasket every
>>>>>> 3-5 times i drain, but hey, i'm reckless, inexperienced and
>>>>>> unqualified, so i'm cavalier about such risks.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is a new gasket going to avoid damage if you over-torque. There is
>>>>> really no need to change it that often. A ton of high mileage cars on
>>>>> the road probably never had the gaskets changed.
>>>>
>>>> The drain plug gasket is aluminum, with a Young's modulus (modulus of
>>>> elasticity, the slope of the linear portion of the stress/strain curve,
>>>> derived from standardized materials testing) is lower than either the
>>>> steel drain plug or the aluminum alloy oil pan (which includes the
>>>> drain-hole threads), so overtorquing results in permanent deformation
>>>> of the drain plug gasket before permanent deformation (stretching) of
>>>> the drain-hole threads occurs. The need for a regular change of the
>>>> drain plug gasket arises from the fact that the material from which it
>>>> is made strain-hardens as it is permanently (inelastically) deformed;
>>>> if the drain-plug gasket remains unchanged, the drain-hole threads
>>>> quickly become the most easily-deformed element in the system (drain
>>>> hole, drain plug and drain-plug gasket). This is basic engineering
>>>> mechanics and materials science.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, it will deform if over-torqued. There is no argument about that,
>>> but it is really not the point. The question is whether the gasket
>>> should be replaced at every oil change regardless of the condition. Of
>>> course, I am no scientist, but experience told me that it is
>>> unnecessary.
>>
>> Experience, by its nature, is subjective ... your experience is what you
>> think (or imagine) it is.
>>
>
> No, that's real world experience. It is more real and objective than any
> theory.

You can always tell someone with 'real world experience' ... you just can't
tell 'em much.

"Paul" <pstuart03@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1143464489.929183.7190@t31g2000cwb.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> > Sometimes true.
> >
> > Not always, and not if you specifically request a technician that you
> > know isn't that guy.
> >
> > No one touches my car except one guy--well, the drivetrain, anyway. If
> > there's *any* upholstery work or power sliding door issues, there's one
> > other guy who specializes in that. And I've known him for 20 years,
too.
> >
> > There's a reason to be a regular customer...
>
> Have a '04 Accord EX-L sedan with 25K pampered miles on it ...
>
> Always request, if available, the same technician at the local Honda
> dealership. Insist on the technician using individual bottles of Honda
> 5W-20 motor oil (from the parts department) rather than from the bulk
> oil dispenser in the service bay (or you can bring in your own oil that
> you purchased from Pep Boys). Also insist on them using fender guards,
> steering wheel covers, etc. and keep the engine bay clean!
>
My dealer used to let me bring my own Mobil 1. Changed policy -- it's bulk
5-20 or nothing. So, I take my Prelude elsewhere for service.



> Keep the factory oil in your engine until the mileage recommended in
> the owners manual, because it has special additives. For my VTEC
> 4-cylinder, I got my first oil change at 5K miles, as recommended, and
> then regularly get it changed at the dealership every 2500 miles. This
> oil-change interval (every 3 months) seems to be a little excessive,
> but it brings peace of mind knowing that you are always feeding your
> engine parts with clean oil. Tire rotations should be done with more
> frequency than recommended -- I get mine rotated every other oil change
> -- or at 5K-mile intervals.
>
> Congratulations on your new Accord! Welcome to the Honda family!
>

"Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote in message
news:7T2Wf.63713$dW3.49012@newssvr21.news.prodigy. com...
> > not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any good.
> > i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter gasket in
> > place, then screw a new filter and gasket on top of it on my civic once.
> > he looked most "confused" when a fountain of oil sprayed literally 3'
out
> > of the engine compartment. so i say again, there's no guarantee that a
> > honda tech is better than any other on the dumb as rocks stuff like
this.
>
> No matter where you go, there is always a chance they will screw it up.
>
> I took my new car to the dealer for its first oil change. When it was all
> done, I started the engine. A lot of smoke came out. A senior mechanic
came
> out and he said some oil got spilled on the engine. He flushed the oil off
> the engine but I still had to smell the oil burning for the next 30 miles.
I
> also found out later they put 5 quarts of oil in there when it only needs
> 41/2.
The dealer I usedfor my Prelude routinely spilled oil everywhere so that I
would have get underneath the car and clean it off with degreaser. I now
take my car to a shop (not a quik change) that carries Mobil1 and allows me
to provide a Honda filter and crush washer. They do not spill oil
everywhere. So, I don't think the dealer is necessarily the answer.

>
> Needless to say, I was very surprised. I am not a mechanic. I have only
done
> oil change myself a few times before and never had any problems. So I am
> going to do my own maintanence from now on.
>
> They recommend changing the drain plug gasket every time to avoid leaking.
I
> just don't buy it. There must be design flaw if an old gasket can damage
the
> oil pan.
>
>

I am looking into way to make it last as long as possible. I plan to use a
synthetic oil and do my own oil changes. I will buy several washers up
front.
What is the opinion of the OEM oil filters? If good does anyone one know a
good place one line to buy them from?
"MunG35" <MunG35.25b87q@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in message
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>
> Suggestions? In what way?
>
>
> --
> MunG35
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In article <1QFXf.11053$tN3.10702@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> ,
"Tom Wallace" <Tomwallace13@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I am looking into way to make it last as long as possible. I plan to use a
> synthetic oil and do my own oil changes.

dude, synthetic oil isn't the magic bullet.

Do the math on synthetic oil with longer changes (say, 5K and 7.5K) vs.
regular oil with 3K changes.

I guarantee you, regular oil even at 5K intervals is more than enough
protection to make this thing last forever. Synthetic oil is throwing
your money down the drain.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-2E950C.20355601042006@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> In article <1QFXf.11053$tN3.10702@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> ,
> "Tom Wallace" <Tomwallace13@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I am looking into way to make it last as long as possible. I plan to use
>> a
>> synthetic oil and do my own oil changes.
>
> dude, synthetic oil isn't the magic bullet.
>
> Do the math on synthetic oil with longer changes (say, 5K and 7.5K) vs.
> regular oil with 3K changes.
>
> I guarantee you, regular oil even at 5K intervals is more than enough
> protection to make this thing last forever. Synthetic oil is throwing
> your money down the drain.

Yup. I go 7k between changes using plain old dino oil (well, blend these
days I think is all the 5w-20 you'll find) and at 154,000 miles (on an '01
V6/AT Accord) engine still runs like when new.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <1QFXf.11053$tN3.10702@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> ,
> "Tom Wallace" <Tomwallace13@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I am looking into way to make it last as long as possible. I plan to use a
>>synthetic oil and do my own oil changes.
>
>
> dude, synthetic oil isn't the magic bullet.
>
> Do the math on synthetic oil with longer changes (say, 5K and 7.5K) vs.
> regular oil with 3K changes.
>
> I guarantee you, regular oil even at 5K intervals is more than enough
> protection to make this thing last forever. Synthetic oil is throwing
> your money down the drain.
>
here's a thought:
if synthetic gives slightly better gas mileage because of better
lubricity, and i've seen dyno reports to the effect that synthetics
/can/ sightly increase horsepower so there must be some reason to that
argument, then it may not be so simple.

example:
if a car on dino gives 30mpg and say 31.5mpg on synthetic, [5%
improvement], then over a 5,000 mile change interval, that's 250 miles
of savings, or 8.3 gallons. at $2.50, that's $20 worth of gas. that
covers ~4 quarts of m1, which is the capacity of my civic. now, if the
change interval can be extended...

see where i'm going? doesn't mean it's right, just a scenario to
consider...

In article <r_FXf.5837$tT.4446@news01.roc.ny>,
"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Do the math on synthetic oil with longer changes (say, 5K and 7.5K) vs.
> > regular oil with 3K changes.
> >
> > I guarantee you, regular oil even at 5K intervals is more than enough
> > protection to make this thing last forever. Synthetic oil is throwing
> > your money down the drain.
>
> Yup. I go 7k between changes using plain old dino oil (well, blend these
> days I think is all the 5w-20 you'll find) and at 154,000 miles (on an '01
> V6/AT Accord) engine still runs like when new.

Get an oil analysis from Blackstone Labs, and come back with the results.

I did so with my 92 Civic Si at around 112K miles; the report showed
that my 3K oil change intervals were *still* unneeded, and recommended
going to 5K based on the condition of the oil. Further, it appeared as
if the inside of the engine was in new condition.

Let's see...Mobil 1 is $6/qt, $30 for the oil. Dino is, what? Buck and
a half? $7.50 worth of oil for the whole shebang?

(to the original poster

All other things being equal--and they are--synthetic costs you $22.50
more per change. If you change at 5K intervals, you're paying another
half a penny per mile more just for the oil.

And it isn't doing you any better than dino.

Let's say you don't trust dino and wouldn't let it go any farther than
3K miles. Your total oil cost per mile is 0.25 cents. A quarter of a
penny. That's being INCREDIBLY generous. Any modern oil in a modern
engine can go 5K miles without trouble.

To get that low of a per-mile oil cost with synthetic means you'd have
to run it for 12K miles between changes. And you'd NEVER do that, no
matter what.

Even worse: with 5K intervals and dino, you're paying 0.15 cents/mile
for oil. To get that cost with synthetic, you're now up to a 20K mile
change interval. You'd NEVER do that, period.

Yet 5K intervals with dino on a new Honda V6 engine protect it just as
well as 7.5K or 10K intervals with synthetic--but at half the cost per
mile.

Fact: you pay a serious premium for synthetic, and putting it in a
Honda is wasting your money. People who would put synthetic in a Honda
are like the people who pay $1000/meter for stereo cables--easily
suckered by marketing hype, easily scared, and easily parted from their
money.

Let's face it: this is a Honda. It's not a 'Vette or an M5.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-6C84A9.21213501042006@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> In article <r_FXf.5837$tT.4446@news01.roc.ny>,
> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Do the math on synthetic oil with longer changes (say, 5K and 7.5K) vs.
>> > regular oil with 3K changes.
>> >
>> > I guarantee you, regular oil even at 5K intervals is more than enough
>> > protection to make this thing last forever. Synthetic oil is throwing
>> > your money down the drain.
>>
>> Yup. I go 7k between changes using plain old dino oil (well, blend these
>> days I think is all the 5w-20 you'll find) and at 154,000 miles (on an
>> '01
>> V6/AT Accord) engine still runs like when new.
>
> Get an oil analysis from Blackstone Labs, and come back with the results.

Nah, not gonna bother. I figure it being a V6/AT, at this rate the tranny
will give out way before the motor. Doubt the vehicle will be worth repair
when that happens.