Honda Car Forum

I'm preparing to perform the arduous removal of the head gasket,
intake/exhaust gaskets, etc. because I know I'm leaking coolant. I've
avoided driving the car for several months and the rainy season is
almost over and I don't have a garage, so in three weeks I'll have my
window of opportunity. I've read through the Chilton's and a pdf
version of the European 1991 Accord (from a friend). I plan on buying
genuine Honda parts from Majestic Honda, as they seem the most
affordable for Honda-branded parts. Anyway, what else should I
consider, as a shadetree mechanic (I'm confidant I can do this)? Since
I'll have to pull the head off and get it machined/trued should I
consider replacing all the valves? What does replacing the 16 valves
entail in terms of all the parts (e.g. valve stems, valve stem seals,
valve springs, getting the valve guides "knurled"? Would it be more
cost effective to get a local shop to rebuild the head? Any special
tools that I might need to invest in (valve spring compressor, etc.?)
Thanks for any advice.

JG wrote:
> I'm preparing to perform the arduous removal of the head gasket,
> intake/exhaust gaskets, etc. because I know I'm leaking coolant.

are you sure of this diagnosis? what are the symptoms?

> I've
> avoided driving the car for several months and the rainy season is
> almost over and I don't have a garage, so in three weeks I'll have my
> window of opportunity. I've read through the Chilton's and a pdf
> version of the European 1991 Accord (from a friend). I plan on buying
> genuine Honda parts from Majestic Honda, as they seem the most
> affordable for Honda-branded parts. Anyway, what else should I
> consider, as a shadetree mechanic (I'm confidant I can do this)?

if it's very high mileage, don't bother. just replace with jdm.

> Since
> I'll have to pull the head off and get it machined/trued

1. what makes you think it needs to be machined? if it doesn't need it,
definitely don't do it. there's nothing like inexpert machining to
screw it up completely.
2. if it does need it [and it's most unlikely if you haven't overheated
the motor], be very careful where you take it for the work. see 1.
above. oem heads are near mirror finish on the sealing surface. yours
should be too.
3. if you do get it machined, you'll need a thicker head gasket.

> should I
> consider replacing all the valves?

not unless they're burnt.

> What does replacing the 16 valves
> entail in terms of all the parts (e.g. valve stems, valve stem seals,
> valve springs, getting the valve guides "knurled"?

seals, yes. forget the rest.

> Would it be more
> cost effective to get a local shop to rebuild the head?

no. unless this is "special" in some way, a junkyard head is the
economic rebuild.

> Any special
> tools that I might need to invest in (valve spring compressor, etc.?)

yes, spring compressor is essential for replacing the valves. but as
it's unlikely you'll need to do that if they're not burnt or you haven't
snapped a timing belt, don't buy it 'cos you don't need it.

> Thanks for any advice.
>

if you pull the head, replace the timing belt and coolant pump while
you're in there. don't replace anything else that you don't need to.

when posting, /always/ state your mileage - it has a material bearing on
the advice that's relevant.

| > I know I'm leaking coolant.
Why not try a bottle of ( e.g. Abro's ) radiator sealant ?

I use a 60ml syringe & a thick rubber gasket, to pump air into radiator
( after I seal its overflow-hose ) to put pressure onto coolant , so any
leak ( when coolant is hot & pressurised ) from any joint ( on a cold
engine ) can be felt on my finger.

JG wrote:
> I'm preparing to perform the arduous removal of the head gasket,
> intake/exhaust gaskets, etc. because I know I'm leaking coolant. I've

a leak could just be the water pump, or a hose... or is the car BURNING
coolant? or do you see it weeping from the head mating surfaces?

> avoided driving the car for several months and the rainy season is
> almost over and I don't have a garage, so in three weeks I'll have my
> window of opportunity. I've read through the Chilton's and a pdf
> version of the European 1991 Accord (from a friend). I plan on buying
> genuine Honda parts from Majestic Honda, as they seem the most
> affordable for Honda-branded parts. Anyway, what else should I
> consider, as a shadetree mechanic (I'm confidant I can do this)? Since
> I'll have to pull the head off and get it machined/trued should I
> consider replacing all the valves? What does replacing the 16 valves
> entail in terms of all the parts (e.g. valve stems, valve stem seals,
> valve springs, getting the valve guides "knurled"? Would it be more
> cost effective to get a local shop to rebuild the head? Any special
> tools that I might need to invest in (valve spring compressor, etc.?)
> Thanks for any advice.

unless it needs new valves, i wouldnt mess with it except for to
possibly replace the valve stem seals.

TE Cheah wrote:
> | > I know I'm leaking coolant.
> Why not try a bottle of ( e.g. Abro's ) radiator sealant ?

because it coats everything with crap and ruins thermal conductivity.
ever tried driving through the desert on a radiator with that stuff in
it? better keep your eye on the gauges and make sure your aaa
membership is paid up.

>
> I use a 60ml syringe & a thick rubber gasket, to pump air into radiator
> ( after I seal its overflow-hose ) to put pressure onto coolant , so any
> leak ( when coolant is hot & pressurised ) from any joint ( on a cold
> engine ) can be felt on my finger.
>
>

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the great advice. The Accord EX has just under 260,000
miles. It has overheated around five years ago. I have been diligent
flushing/changing the coolant. I replaced the thermostat last summer
when camping in the mountains when I know the engine would be working
overtime. I only started having issues in the last 3-4 months; I've
gone through over a gallon of coolant in the last month, on 60 degree
days, white "sweet-smelling" smoke is coming out of the tailpipe (my
friend smelled it, I wanted to keep my brain cells). At cold start up,
regardless of the weather conditions, the car severly hesitates and
barely starts, once warm, it works fine all day. I replaced the
original main relay, which had a lot of brown electronic residue all
over the inside, and this has helped somewhat, but white smoke is
severly coming out of the tailpipe now. I've only driven it twice for
short trips in the last month and a half.

So, If I use the feeler gauges on a metal straightedge at all the
different angles on the block and the head surface, and they are within
range, don't even bother machining the head? I was told by some fellow
slow shadetree mechanics that it would be a good idea to make sure the
gasket fits, "so get it machined." Should I have to machine it, how do
I get a thicker OEM gasket?

My questions about the valves are only a novice guess, as I can hear
the clicking pretty easily at idle. Maybe I won't mess with it.

This car has taken care of me and my wife for several years and I want
to reach 300,000 miles before giving up on it.

Thanks for the response. BTW the Accord EX has just under 260,000. I
don't see any weeping between the head and the block on a superficial
look. I do, however, have white smoke coming out of the tailpipe any
time I've used the car.

Maybe I'll avoid the the valves altogether. This would be my biggest
job, doing the head gasket, timing belt, water pump.

JG wrote:
> Thanks for the response. BTW the Accord EX has just under 260,000. I
> don't see any weeping between the head and the block on a superficial
> look. I do, however, have white smoke coming out of the tailpipe any
> time I've used the car.
>
> Maybe I'll avoid the the valves altogether. This would be my biggest
> job, doing the head gasket, timing belt, water pump.
>
as long as the car hasnt overheated, go ahead and just do a thorough job
on the gasket/belt/pump. nothing but cleaning should be needed.

JG wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> Thanks for the great advice. The Accord EX has just under 260,000
> miles. It has overheated around five years ago. I have been diligent
> flushing/changing the coolant. I replaced the thermostat last summer
> when camping in the mountains when I know the engine would be working
> overtime. I only started having issues in the last 3-4 months; I've
> gone through over a gallon of coolant in the last month, on 60 degree
> days, white "sweet-smelling" smoke is coming out of the tailpipe (my
> friend smelled it, I wanted to keep my brain cells). At cold start up,
> regardless of the weather conditions, the car severly hesitates and
> barely starts, once warm, it works fine all day. I replaced the
> original main relay, which had a lot of brown electronic residue all
> over the inside, and this has helped somewhat, but white smoke is
> severly coming out of the tailpipe now. I've only driven it twice for
> short trips in the last month and a half.
>
> So, If I use the feeler gauges on a metal straightedge at all the
> different angles on the block and the head surface, and they are within
> range, don't even bother machining the head?

that's right. even if it /does/ have a little warping, i'd still be
inclined to put it back untouched because the head & block tend to warp
in sympathy so they still fit.

> I was told by some fellow
> slow shadetree mechanics that it would be a good idea to make sure the
> gasket fits, "so get it machined." Should I have to machine it, how do
> I get a thicker OEM gasket?

not sure you can! i don't recall seeing them listed.

>
> My questions about the valves are only a novice guess, as I can hear
> the clicking pretty easily at idle. Maybe I won't mess with it.

that's probably piston slap - just have to live with it.

>
> This car has taken care of me and my wife for several years and I want
> to reach 300,000 miles before giving up on it.
>

you'll get there. if the motor needs more money after that, consider a
replacement low mileage jdm engine. /much/ cheaper and more reliable
than a rebuild.

SoCalMike wrote:
>as long as the car hasnt overheated, go ahead and just do a thorough job
>on the gasket/belt/pump. nothing but cleaning should be needed.

Thanks SoCalMike,
Any particular products you recommend for the cleaning of the gasket in
conjunction with a gasket scraper? Also, I'll get the special
attachment for my 1/2" breaker bar to hold the engine from truning when
trying to get the special bolt off but I don't have air tools. I have
several shops nearby (under a mile) that should be willing to losen the
159 ft/lbs. bolt and drive the car home before I start the whole job. I
do have a click-type torque wrench so I should be able to torque it.