Honda Car Forum

Here's my mini-review of the new Civic, reposted from rec.autos.tech:

I looked at a new Civic yesterday, more out of curiosity then anything
else since my 88 Volvo is still running nicely at 195k miles.

Engine compartment(!):
Cramped, cramped, cramped. In its quest for an additional 0.25 mpg, Honda
has seen fit to move the front edge of the windshield over most of the
rear engine accessories (PS pump, throttle body, et al). Looks like you
can only get to them from the bottom, or may even have to pull the engine
(unless the engine rolls forward like in some GMs).

What good is an additional 0.25MPG if the economical service life of the
car is reduced? Remember that more than 50% of the energy expended by a
car is spend building it.

No electric power steering on anything but the Si and hybrid. Sigh.

Gauges:
The digital gauges are neat. However, there does seem to be a lot of
wasted space on the bottom cluster around the tach. Why not put gauge
blanks for optional gauges there (or an optional NAV screen in front of
the driver's eyes)? True, there are warning lights and an auto trans
shift quadrant beside the tach, but there's still wasted space there.

Trunk:
Pleasantly huge for a car of that size. The rear seat folds 60/40.
Unfortunately, the folding mechanism seems to be only in the trunk - I'd
prefer to be able to fold the seat from the *INSIDE* of the car!

Si/Hatchback:
What happened? The Si is now a coupe. I loved the little square
hatchbacks made from the 80s to the 90s. Good mileage, practical, and a
bit different from everything on the road. I guess Honda has a "sporty"
image to maintain in the US and hatches just don't fit into that mold.
But it would be neat if they built a car that combined sport and
practicality, like the current Subaru WRX or old Volvo 1800ES. Those are
selling like hotcakes, BTW.

Honda, give us a new CRX please. I wonder if building a sporty version of
the Insight with better tires, suspension, and gearing at the expense of a
few MPG could be justified. Call it the first sports hybrid. Maybe even
make it AWD using a 15hp pancake motor driving the rear axle. (The new
Lexus RWD hybrid sedan is more of a luxury touring car.)

I guess if you want cargo room, you have to go to one of Honda's SUV-esque
vehicles like the Element (which has its own problems in its narrow rear
seat - why can't Honda offer 3-person rear seating as an option?)

Update: Honda is making a Civic hatch, just not for US sale anymore:
http://www.modernracer.com/autonews/...acivicpic2.jpg

Looks neat, kind of like a modern interpretation of a Saab 900T, if you
ask me.

-Andrew

Andrew Szafran <gro.ratsenol.fds@ukozosob.BACKWARDS.invalid> wrote in
news:do6s2o$g0m$1@chessie.cirr.com:

> Here's my mini-review of the new Civic, reposted from rec.autos.tech:
>
> I looked at a new Civic yesterday, more out of curiosity then anything
> else since my 88 Volvo is still running nicely at 195k miles.
>
> Engine compartment(!):
> Cramped, cramped, cramped. In its quest for an additional 0.25 mpg,



I used to think Honda's struggle for every last 1/10 mpg was an attempt at
improving their CAFE numbers. Now I'm not so sure. From what I've been
reading in Forbes and other publications, is seems more now like Honda is
simply losing focus.

I think they're just getting obsessive about "safety" and enviro-stuff,
almost to the exclusion of all else.

The cars are no longer cars to Honda, but are instead flagships for their
particular safety/enviro philosophy.

Honda's biggest achievements in recent years have not been automotive at
all: Asimo the robot, and a genetically engineered form of rice (yes!).
http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=10373

All good things in-and-of themselves of course, but not to us as Honda
drivers.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

If the Honda Jazz/Fit is available now or is supposed to be
in the near future where you are, I would be interested in
your comparison of it to the 06 Civic. If you feel like
it... :-)

Right now, I'm thinking my next wheels be a Fit/Jazz. Five
years down the line or so, I suppose.

"Andrew Szafran" wrote
> Here's my mini-review of the new Civic, reposted from
rec.autos.tech:

Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:
> If the Honda Jazz/Fit is available now or is supposed to be
> in the near future where you are, I would be interested in
> your comparison of it to the 06 Civic. If you feel like
> it... :-)

Elle, if you do see a Jazz wherever you live, post yer review here.

I'm in the US in New Jersey (very close to NYC). The Jazz wasn't
available at the dealer's, nor do I see it listed on Honda's US website.
The Jazz is a mini-wagon, right? Honda seems to have given up on wagons,
hatchbacks, and light sporty cars in the US, unfortunately. (They're
keeping the Insight so they can keep their place as the builders of the
car with the highest fuel economy rating in the US.)

Honda, if you are listening, bring a sports version of the Insight to the
US. Give the option of adding two pancake motors in the rear to give, in
effect, an AWD system with a limited-slip rear differential.

Since the front motor would be used for regenerative braking, the rear
motors could be comparatively low-tech permanent magnet DC motors, which
would keep price down (PMDC motors are inefficient if used as generators
unless battery voltage is very close to output voltage, and that can't be
guaranteed).

Cheers,
Andrew

"Andrew Szafran"
> Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > If the Honda Jazz/Fit is available now or is supposed to
be
> > in the near future where you are, I would be interested
in
> > your comparison of it to the 06 Civic. If you feel like
> > it... :-)
>
> Elle, if you do see a Jazz wherever you live, post yer
review here.

If a test drive with me behind the Fit wheel happens, it's
going to be a few years down the line.

But my dealer (here in the Western U.S.) says he'll have the
Fit/Jazz in 2006. I've seen reputable sites on the net
saying the same.

> I'm in the US in New Jersey (very close to NYC). The Jazz
wasn't
> available at the dealer's, nor do I see it listed on
Honda's US website.
> The Jazz is a mini-wagon, right?

I guess so, from the pictures at the site below. A bit
Cooper-esque.

> Honda seems to have given up on wagons,
> hatchbacks, and light sporty cars in the US,
unfortunately.

I hear you. Maybe Honda did, too, hence the Jazz/Fit!

It's been coming up now and then this past year here.

Here's a site with lots of photos:
http://fitfreak.net/gallery/

See especially:
http://fitfreak.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=11

Take care,

E

Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:

> "Andrew Szafran"
> It's been coming up now and then this past year here.

> Here's a site with lots of photos:
> http://fitfreak.net/gallery/

> See especially:
> http://fitfreak.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=11

*Now* I see it on the Honda web site. (Didn't look too closely at
work Thanks! I guess the dealer's salesdroid was wrong about Honda
not importing any more hatchbacks to the US.

Looks like it'll be something equivalent to the wonderful 'tall Civics'
that were offered in the late 80s, but probably no AWD.

As far as an armchair review - interior looks nice and roomy, but again
the nose is very short, so it likely has the same engine compartment space
issues as the new Civic.

-Andrew

"Andrew Szafran"
<gro.ratsenol.fds@ukozosob.BACKWARDS.invalid>
> As far as an armchair review - interior looks nice and
roomy, but again
> the nose is very short, so it likely has the same engine
compartment space
> issues as the new Civic.

Yes, from the photos, that engine compartment looks /very/
tight.

Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Yes, from the photos, that engine compartment looks /very/
> tight.

Another point about the small compartment...

I wonder if it'll have an engine heat issues due to the fact that the cat
is *in front* of the base engine (the intake manifold is in back).
Hopefully, they've made the mixture control very tight so the thing
doesn't heat up too much except on startup.

The Si's engine seems to have all of its exhaust hardware in back of it
and the cat under the car, so this may be less of an issue.

-Andrew

Andrew Szafran wrote:
> Si/Hatchback:
> What happened? The Si is now a coupe. I loved the little square
> hatchbacks made from the 80s to the 90s. Good mileage, practical, and a
> bit different from everything on the road. I guess Honda has a "sporty"
> image to maintain in the US and hatches just don't fit into that mold.
> But it would be neat if they built a car that combined sport and
> practicality, like the current Subaru WRX or old Volvo 1800ES. Those are
> selling like hotcakes, BTW.

The Honda Fit*: Coming Spring 2006.

Small on the outside, big on the inside, the Fit will transform the way
you live. That's because the Fit has the same Honda quality, know-how
and dependability built right in.

There's not a whole lot of information we can reveal right now, but rest
assured there will be a few surprises for those expecting the steering
wheel to simply move to the left.

So look for the U.S. Fit to satisfy your needs for fun-to-drive excitement.

Elle wrote:
> "Andrew Szafran"
> <gro.ratsenol.fds@ukozosob.BACKWARDS.invalid>
>> As far as an armchair review - interior looks nice and
> roomy, but again
>> the nose is very short, so it likely has the same engine
> compartment space
>> issues as the new Civic.
>
> Yes, from the photos, that engine compartment looks /very/
> tight.
>
>
small on the outside, big on the inside. itll be neat to see what little
space saving tricks they can pull.

side note: my mom has a 2003 scion xA (the NOT popular one), purchased
mostly because i recommended it and wanted one myself.

anyway- checking out the engine compartment, i noticed its kind of
tight, but laid out very methodically. typical toyota engineering! one
thing ive never seen before was the radiator overflow bottle is molded
into/part of the fan shroud. saves space, saves parts, saves assembly time.

and of course, it has a plastic intake manifold.