Honda Car Forum

On 2005-11-29, Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I see brushes (two) and bearings (front and rear) go for
> about $6 and $16, each, respectively, at the usual online
> OEM honda parts sites. So I'd like to see if I can locate a
> shop, along the lines of what T L says, that sells these.
> Again, as an exploration; for fun and learning.

I'm in the middle of this, now. Brushes (carbon/metal brush on
braided wire) can be had for as little as $4, but after removing and
viewing the brush assy, I just went ahead and bought whole new assy
(holder, springs, new rubber seal, etc) for $25 from dealer.

nb

"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com> wrote
> On 2005-11-29, Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > I see brushes (two) and bearings (front and rear) go for
> > about $6 and $16, each, respectively, at the usual
online
> > OEM honda parts sites. So I'd like to see if I can
locate a
> > shop, along the lines of what T L says, that sells
these.
> > Again, as an exploration; for fun and learning.
>
> I'm in the middle of this, now. Brushes (carbon/metal
brush on
> braided wire) can be had for as little as $4, but after
removing and
> viewing the brush assy, I just went ahead and bought whole
new assy
> (holder, springs, new rubber seal, etc) for $25 from
dealer.

Okay, I see the "brush assembly" at the Majestic online
parts site. Not sure what or where this rubber seal is, but
I guess when I get it apart next year sometime that will be
obvious.

Did your alternator fail? Or are you on some kind of PM
schedule for it at this point? How many years and miles were
on your alternator, its brushes, etc.?

On 2005-11-29, Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Did your alternator fail? Or are you on some kind of PM
> schedule for it at this point? How many years and miles were
> on your alternator, its brushes, etc.?

This on '87 Si w/ 240K miles. Me not org owner, so I assume this not
org alt. I'd say this alt has at least 130K miles that I know of.
The problem was partial failure. Alt no charge at below 4K rpm, but
charge ok above 4K rpm. Removal of brush assy revealed badly worn
brushes w/ no contact at all from one brush. All other tests in Helm
manual ok. I haven't re-assembled/re-installed alt yet.

nb

My theory on alternators is that little components wearing down can lead to
primary failure of expensive parts.

IE if you brushes wear down, they will cause voltage fluctuations which are
hard on the regulator. So if you leave it too long, brushes wearing down
could cause an imbalance and be responsible for the regulator failure.

OR

My example of the output shaft bearing being shot, causing the rotor to spin
off center and dig into the stator assembly. Small part leads to big failure.


Also consider that pretty much any time you do an alternator, if your battery
is more than 3-4 years old, you might as well replace it, cuz a bad battery
can cause a new regulator to go bad.

The alternator is not designed to charge a battery, and its not designed to
power a system that is being dragged down with a battery that is not at full
capacity.

my two bits....

Terry

Elle wrote:
>> Elle wrote:
>> >> I am a big believer in PM - so what kind of PM do you do
>[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> >
>> i imagine the brushes might be able to be replaced, somehow.
>
>This sounds like a good "exploration" project for when my
>current alternator hits 80k miles or so of usage, like this
>summer. I certainly remember seeing a lot of posts at the
>two honda newsgroups about DIY-ing the brushes.
>
>> maybe the
>> diodes or rectifier or something?
>
>I see from the parts sites and my Chilton's that there will
>be both a regulator and a rectifier assembly (I know;
>"duh"), each of which is well over $100. Whereas the whole
>alternator (rebuilt?) goes for under $200. From other
>evidence, I'm betting it's rebuilt, and the only new items
>on it are new brushes and bearings.
>
>A quick google search turns up some sites saying regulator
>failure is the main reason alternators fail. But many other
>sites say the brushes wear down too short, and worn brushes
>are the main cause of alternator failure. Some sites and
>newsgroup folks mention lives of around 80-100k miles for
>brushes. Of course, there must be a guesstimated time limit,
>as well.
>
>I see brushes (two) and bearings (front and rear) go for
>about $6 and $16, each, respectively, at the usual online
>OEM honda parts sites. So I'd like to see if I can locate a
>shop, along the lines of what T L says, that sells these.
>Again, as an exploration; for fun and learning.
>
>My original alternator died (or parts within it died) at
>106k miles and 8 years. I don't know whether they put in a
>remanufactured alternator or a whole new alternator, but
>I'll ask what my current local dealer does next time I'm
>there.
>
>All comments read, Butch Burton, TL and Mike. Thanks for the
>input.

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

Terry, sounds good to me. Have you a maintenance schedule
that seems to have been effective you for your cars'
alternators? Like replace brushes and bearings every 100k
miles/7 years? Replace battery every five years?

"T L via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote
> My theory on alternators is that little components wearing
down can lead to
> primary failure of expensive parts.
>
> IE if you brushes wear down, they will cause voltage
fluctuations which are
> hard on the regulator. So if you leave it too long,
brushes wearing down
> could cause an imbalance and be responsible for the
regulator failure.
>
> OR
>
> My example of the output shaft bearing being shot, causing
the rotor to spin
> off center and dig into the stator assembly. Small part
leads to big failure.
>
>
> Also consider that pretty much any time you do an
alternator, if your battery
> is more than 3-4 years old, you might as well replace it,
cuz a bad battery
> can cause a new regulator to go bad.
>
> The alternator is not designed to charge a battery, and
its not designed to
> power a system that is being dragged down with a battery
that is not at full
> capacity.
>
> my two bits....
>
> Terry

I guess setting up a rule that says replace at XXXX number of miles or a
certain time period would likely prevent failures. Thats how Honda does it
on their new vehicles and it seems to work pretty well.

However, in the case of the charging system, I think we can be a little more
scientific.

Pull the brush assembly out of the alternator if you think that it is
surviving on borrowed time. Check the amount of brush material left. If
theres not much, replace the brushes.

In my experience, anything after 160000kms would fall into that category.
While you have it apart, inspect the bearings for wear. Any play and it
should be replaced. For the $10 or so in parts, I would say its well worth
it. Getting your battery load tested after its on 'borrowed' time is
probably not a bad idea either. Just ensuring a battery is in good shape can
prevent major failures of the charging system in the future.

Just a note that if its the first time you are pulling out your alternator,
it may take longer than it should. Now that I know what I am doing on my 98
civic, i can have it out in less than 15-20 minutes. (no exaggeration).
Disconnect the battery, jack the car up, undo the tensioner, disconnect the
power lead, unplug the harness, undo the pivot bolt, and remove the
alternator bracket attached to the engine block (2 bolts). It practically
falls out into your lap (or onto your head depending on whether you are
expecting it or not)

Once its out, the only trick is to ensure you have a method of removing the
pulley bolt on the alternator. Impact works really well. Then you can use
an impact screwdriver to undo the housing bolts, and your in business.

Elle wrote:
>Terry, sounds good to me. Have you a maintenance schedule
>that seems to have been effective you for your cars'
>alternators? Like replace brushes and bearings every 100k
>miles/7 years? Replace battery every five years?
>
>> My theory on alternators is that little components wearing down can lead to
>> primary failure of expensive parts.
>[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>>
>> Terry

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200511/1

Elle wrote:
> I see brushes (two) and bearings (front and rear) go for
> about $6 and $16, each, respectively, at the usual online
> OEM honda parts sites. So I'd like to see if I can locate a
> shop, along the lines of what T L says, that sells these.
> Again, as an exploration; for fun and learning.

which sites? if they have em, id just order from them. not even sure id
bother with the bearings, as long as they turn smoothly and i didnt
overtension the belt. so $12 to renew an alternator sounds like a good deal!

"SoCalMike" <Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> Elle wrote:
> > I see brushes (two) and bearings (front and rear) go for
> > about $6 and $16, each, respectively, at the usual
online
> > OEM honda parts sites. So I'd like to see if I can
locate a
> > shop, along the lines of what T L says, that sells
these.
> > Again, as an exploration; for fun and learning.
>
> which sites?

www.hondaautomotiveparts.com (a.k.a. Majestic Honda) and
www.slhonda.com

> if they have em, id just order from them. not even sure id
> bother with the bearings, as long as they turn smoothly
and i didnt
> overtension the belt. so $12 to renew an alternator sounds
like a good deal!

I think it'll be a good experiment for me. See you next
summer on this one! I will have my digital camera on the
workbench and will try to document, for other amateurs.

Terry--Thanks for the elaboration!