Honda Car Forum

Myself and a friend of mine just put new brakes on my 1991 Honda Prelude
Si. We did the rear brakes, replaced the calapers, rotors, pads and then
bled them all, front and back. We bled them all 3 times and refilled the
brake fluid in both the booster and the ALB system. After all this the
brakes are still very soft. I have to press the pedal almost all the way
down to get any stoping power.

croweasley wrote:
> Myself and a friend of mine just put new brakes on my 1991 Honda Prelude
> Si. We did the rear brakes, replaced the calapers, rotors, pads and then
> bled them all, front and back. We bled them all 3 times and refilled the
> brake fluid in both the booster and the ALB system. After all this the
> brakes are still very soft. I have to press the pedal almost all the way
> down to get any stoping power.
>
did you service the master cylinder? replace seals or replace the whole
thing? if not, that may be your problem.

no, all we did was the rear brakes, i was hoping i wouldnt have to spend
the almost 150.00 dollars for the master cylinder. You see, i am short on
money and that would take damn near my entire check. Any other ideas would
be nice, cheaper ones are prefered, i will check the seals though, thanks.

croweasley wrote:
> no, all we did was the rear brakes, i was hoping i wouldnt have to spend
> the almost 150.00 dollars for the master cylinder. You see, i am short on
> money and that would take damn near my entire check. Any other ideas would
> be nice, cheaper ones are prefered, i will check the seals though, thanks.
>
you may be able to get a seal kit, but they're usually still not that
cheap. and replacement is much safer if you don't have much experience.
also, make the investment in a flare nut wrench or you could round off
the pipe connectors.

thanks for the assist. I will try to do that, i need to get all new tools
anyways, my are all standard, i dont have but one thing that is metric.
Anything else i should know?

Try bleeding the brakes again, all four, not just the back.It is possible
you still have air in the system....


"croweasley" <croweasley@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:35401d8e6f6054dd9bc7a14e660b4994@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> thanks for the assist. I will try to do that, i need to get all new tools
> anyways, my are all standard, i dont have but one thing that is metric.
> Anything else i should know?
>

will do, now i have another question. the other guy that was nice enough to
reply said to check my seals and brake cylinder. if it is the seals, or for
that matter the cylinder, how long can i go without worry. i know that i
need to do it ASAP because it is my brakes that i am talking about here.
but i simply dont have the money to shell out and my girl has to use the
car to get across town everyday. so will my brakes go out on me soon or at
all or how long do i have? the cylinder is 150.00 bucks that i cant afford
considering i skipped out on rent to shell out 120.00 into the rear
cylinders this week. thanks again. Crow

"croweasley" <croweasley@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:f71fbd8ee21e1a7ec9bb96c804687974@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> will do, now i have another question. the other guy that was nice enough to
> reply said to check my seals and brake cylinder. if it is the seals, or for
> that matter the cylinder, how long can i go without worry. i know that i
> need to do it ASAP because it is my brakes that i am talking about here.
> but i simply dont have the money to shell out and my girl has to use the
> car to get across town everyday. so will my brakes go out on me soon or at
> all or how long do i have? the cylinder is 150.00 bucks that i cant afford
> considering i skipped out on rent to shell out 120.00 into the rear
> cylinders this week. thanks again. Crow

I don't believe normal bleeding would damage the master cylinder, unless
you push the pedal all the way to the floor. Put a block of wood under the
brake pedal to keep it from going too deep.

Bleed them in the correct order with the correct procedures. Tips:

Tap on the piston or what not to release the air bubbles. Until the person
pressing the brake feels some overall firmness then you know it's time
to abort the bleeding. Have another to make sure that the reservoir is
always full. Try not to leave the fluid expose to air for too long. Use clear
tubes, if not already. Bleed sequence:

FL Driver side, RR rear passenger, FR front passenger, RL rear passenger.

Burt S. wrote:
> "croweasley" <croweasley@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:f71fbd8ee21e1a7ec9bb96c804687974@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
>
>>will do, now i have another question. the other guy that was nice enough to
>>reply said to check my seals and brake cylinder. if it is the seals, or for
>>that matter the cylinder, how long can i go without worry. i know that i
>>need to do it ASAP because it is my brakes that i am talking about here.
>>but i simply dont have the money to shell out and my girl has to use the
>>car to get across town everyday. so will my brakes go out on me soon or at
>>all or how long do i have? the cylinder is 150.00 bucks that i cant afford
>>considering i skipped out on rent to shell out 120.00 into the rear
>>cylinders this week. thanks again. Crow
>
>
> I don't believe normal bleeding would damage the master cylinder, unless
> you push the pedal all the way to the floor. Put a block of wood under the
> brake pedal to keep it from going too deep.

that's an old wives tale. unless the bore of the cylinder is /severely/
corroded, something that doesn't happen very much in the aluminum
cylinders used in hondas, there is no damage caused to the seal by using
the full cylinder travel. afterall, emergency braking uses a lot more
travel than standard braking - surely no one is going to start saying
that you shouldn't emergency brake as well?

truth is, most brake systems don't get their fluid changed regularly
enough. contaminated fluid swells seals. when old seals get new fluid,
i.e. when the system is bled, the new fluid shrinks the seals slightly,
and if they're old enough, they shrink enough to leak. the fact that
leakage happens a couple of weeks after a fluid change leads to a
mistaken assumption that the system was "bled wrong". no. the seals
were just old and were going to fail soon anyway.

>
> Bleed them in the correct order with the correct procedures. Tips:
>
> Tap on the piston or what not to release the air bubbles. Until the person
> pressing the brake feels some overall firmness then you know it's time
> to abort the bleeding. Have another to make sure that the reservoir is
> always full. Try not to leave the fluid expose to air for too long. Use clear
> tubes, if not already. Bleed sequence:
>
> FL Driver side, RR rear passenger, FR front passenger, RL rear passenger.
>
>
>

> truth is, most brake systems don't get their fluid changed regularly
> enough. contaminated fluid swells seals. when old seals get new fluid,
> i.e. when the system is bled, the new fluid shrinks the seals slightly,
> and if they're old enough, they shrink enough to leak. the fact that
> leakage happens a couple of weeks after a fluid change leads to a
> mistaken assumption that the system was "bled wrong". no. the seals
> were just old and were going to fail soon anyway.
>

A good reason not to bleed them at all, and I wish Honda would get off
of this.

Ford did a study several years ago, showing that after 10 years never
being flushed, their brake systems had 1.4% water. They also found
that nothing short of 3.0% water was going to hurt anything.

Nissan for instance does not recommend brake flushes. Had my I30t
nearly 10 years and it never had one, thank you very much. No problems
after 111,000 miles.

I had the stealer bleed my '90 Integra twice, at 3 year intervals as
recommended. Result was having to replace two master cylinders, both
at my expense. You can bet it was never bled again after that. And,
no further brake problems.

If Hondas really need bleeding, to protect the ABS some will argue,
then what they really need is a better design.