Honda Car Forum

Hi.
I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but
when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions - WHY
(please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply build
a neutral safety switch for mt's?!

Isn't there some reasonable way to maybe put a magnetic proximity sensor on
the shift shaft or something to tell when the damn thing is in neutral? It
isn't rocket science - it's a lever on a stick!

I have this really nice unit which is nicer than the one "designed" for
manual trans, which would then also have a series of ridiculous "reservation
mode" steps to follow... why not just put it in neutral (including the
e-brake in series of course to ensure *both* are engaged) and Voila??

Anybody know how / where - or do I just muck around until I build one
myself?
It's for a 2004 Honda Civic.
Thanks!


---
You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything.
-e

Eric Hymander wrote:
> Hi.
> I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but
> when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions - WHY
> (please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply build
> a neutral safety switch for mt's?!
>
> Isn't there some reasonable way to maybe put a magnetic proximity sensor on
> the shift shaft or something to tell when the damn thing is in neutral? It
> isn't rocket science - it's a lever on a stick!
>
> I have this really nice unit which is nicer than the one "designed" for
> manual trans, which would then also have a series of ridiculous "reservation
> mode" steps to follow... why not just put it in neutral (including the
> e-brake in series of course to ensure *both* are engaged) and Voila??
>
> Anybody know how / where - or do I just muck around until I build one
> myself?
> It's for a 2004 Honda Civic.
> Thanks!
>
>
> ---
> You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything.
> -e
>
>
you effectively already have one - it's on the clutch pedal and means
you can't start it unless the clutch is fully depressed - and we all
know the vehicle can't transmit drive when the clutch is fully
depressed, don't we?

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:uI2dnZIjw8hkUf_eRVn-1A@speakeasy.net...
> Eric Hymander wrote:
> > Hi.
> > I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but
> > when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions -
WHY
> > (please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply
build
> > a neutral safety switch for mt's?!
<snip>
> > ---
> > You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything.
> > -e
> >
> >
> you effectively already have one - it's on the clutch pedal and means
> you can't start it unless the clutch is fully depressed - and we all
> know the vehicle can't transmit drive when the clutch is fully
> depressed, don't we?

Yes, of course there's that - but that is bypassed by the starter during the
starting process. The point is to somehow ensure the car is in neutral and
e-braked before doing so. Units "designed" for mt's require a number of
steps to try to ensure this. I just can't believe their isn't a more direct
method of mechanically or otherwise determining "Am I In Neutral - Yes or
No?"

---
You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything.
-e

Eric Hymander wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news:uI2dnZIjw8hkUf_eRVn-1A@speakeasy.net...
>
>>Eric Hymander wrote:
>>
>>>Hi.
>>>I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but
>>>when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions -
>
> WHY
>
>>>(please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply
>
> build
>
>>>a neutral safety switch for mt's?!
>
> <snip>
>
>>>---
>>>You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything.
>>>-e
>>>
>>>
>>
>>you effectively already have one - it's on the clutch pedal and means
>>you can't start it unless the clutch is fully depressed - and we all
>>know the vehicle can't transmit drive when the clutch is fully
>>depressed, don't we?
>
>
> Yes, of course there's that - but that is bypassed by the starter during the
> starting process. The point is to somehow ensure the car is in neutral and
> e-braked before doing so. Units "designed" for mt's require a number of
> steps to try to ensure this. I just can't believe their isn't a more direct
> method of mechanically or otherwise determining "Am I In Neutral - Yes or
> No?"
>
> ---
> You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything.
> -e
>
>
>
er, ok, so what problem are you having? don't you ever check the stick?

"Eric Hymander" <ericDOThymander@R0GERS.C0M> wrote in message
news:8cWdnaPMaqz_V__eRVn-vg@rogers.com...
> Hi.
> I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but
> when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions - WHY
> (please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply
> build
> a neutral safety switch for mt's?!
>
> Isn't there some reasonable way to maybe put a magnetic proximity sensor
> on
> the shift shaft or something to tell when the damn thing is in neutral?
> It
> isn't rocket science - it's a lever on a stick!
>
> I have this really nice unit which is nicer than the one "designed" for
> manual trans, which would then also have a series of ridiculous
> "reservation
> mode" steps to follow... why not just put it in neutral (including the
> e-brake in series of course to ensure *both* are engaged) and Voila??
>
> Anybody know how / where - or do I just muck around until I build one
> myself?
> It's for a 2004 Honda Civic.
> Thanks!

Which unit do you have? Many years ago when I was in the Mobile Electronics
business I carried and installed a unit out of Canada by Astro-Start that
sounds something like what you are describing. It used optical sensors on
the shifter (2 sets, 1 for the X axis and one for the Y axis) to detect if
the car was in neutral. Magnetics would be unreliable cause you can't aim a
magnetic field reliably.

But even this unit had a specific shut-down sequence you had to follow or
else it would disable itself. In addition to making sure the vehicle was in
neutral, it also wanted to make sure the e-brake was set.

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:1N2dne_rNYISTv_eRVn-1A@speakeasy.net...
> Eric Hymander wrote:
> > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> > news:uI2dnZIjw8hkUf_eRVn-1A@speakeasy.net...
> >
> >>Eric Hymander wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi.
> >>>I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead,
but
> >>>when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions -
> >
> > WHY
> >
> >>>(please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply
> >
> > build
> >
> >>>a neutral safety switch for mt's?!
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >>>---
> >>>You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything.
> >>>-e
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>you effectively already have one - it's on the clutch pedal and means
> >>you can't start it unless the clutch is fully depressed - and we all
> >>know the vehicle can't transmit drive when the clutch is fully
> >>depressed, don't we?
> >
> >
> > Yes, of course there's that - but that is bypassed by the starter during
the
> > starting process. The point is to somehow ensure the car is in neutral
and
> > e-braked before doing so. Units "designed" for mt's require a number of
> > steps to try to ensure this. I just can't believe their isn't a more
direct
> > method of mechanically or otherwise determining "Am I In Neutral - Yes
or
> > No?"
> >
> > ---
> > You can have anything you want... you just can't have everything.
> > -e
> >
> >
> >
> er, ok, so what problem are you having? don't you ever check the stick?
>
Of course - but what if I forget. The 'net is full of such horror stories.
-e

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:buA8f.677$lg.18@news01.roc.ny...
> "Eric Hymander" <ericDOThymander@R0GERS.C0M> wrote in message
> news:8cWdnaPMaqz_V__eRVn-vg@rogers.com...
> > Hi.
> > I don't mean to get flamed as some sort of automotive uber bonehead, but
> > when it comes to installing remote starters on manual transmissions -
WHY
> > (please SOMEBODY tell me) - why does it seem so implausible to simply
<snip>
>
> Which unit do you have? Many years ago when I was in the Mobile
Electronics
> business I carried and installed a unit out of Canada by Astro-Start that
> sounds something like what you are describing. It used optical sensors on
> the shifter (2 sets, 1 for the X axis and one for the Y axis) to detect if
> the car was in neutral. Magnetics would be unreliable cause you can't aim
a
> magnetic field reliably.
>
> But even this unit had a specific shut-down sequence you had to follow or
> else it would disable itself. In addition to making sure the vehicle was
in
> neutral, it also wanted to make sure the e-brake was set.
>

aha! OK! Yes - this is what I'm talking about! That sounds like an
interesting solution.

I could build something like that with minimal effort - X and Y too, makes
sense. The magnetic thing I was suggesting was more of a proximity
concept - something simple like a mod on a magnetic door switch for house
alarms. If the magnet is close enough, the switch engages. Similar, but
different, as the shifter has a lot more play than a swinging door on fixed
hinges.

I'm also checking out Astro Start - thanks for the tip.
-e

"Eric Hymander" <ericDOThymander@R0GERS.C0M> wrote in
news:tMGdnd_aiqoXRf_eRVn-rw@rogers.com:

> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message

>> The point is to somehow ensure the car is in neutral and e-braked
>> before doing so. Units "designed" for mt's require a number of steps
>> to try to ensure this. I just can't believe their isn't a more
>> direct method of mechanically or otherwise determining "Am I In Neutral
>> Yes or No?"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> er, ok, so what problem are you having? don't you ever check the
>> stick?
>>
> Of course - but what if I forget. The 'net is full of such horror
> stories.


What if you "forget"? How ridiculous.

If you "forget" such a thing, then you're basically a lousy driver and
should not be allowed to drive a manual transmission.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR® wrote:
> "Eric Hymander" <ericDOThymander@R0GERS.C0M> wrote in
> news:tMGdnd_aiqoXRf_eRVn-rw@rogers.com:
>
>
>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>
>
>>>The point is to somehow ensure the car is in neutral and e-braked
>>>before doing so. Units "designed" for mt's require a number of steps
>>>to try to ensure this. I just can't believe their isn't a more
>>>direct method of mechanically or otherwise determining "Am I In Neutral
>>>Yes or No?"
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>er, ok, so what problem are you having? don't you ever check the
>>>stick?
>>>
>>
>>Of course - but what if I forget. The 'net is full of such horror
>>stories.
>
>
>
> What if you "forget"? How ridiculous.
>
> If you "forget" such a thing, then you're basically a lousy driver and
> should not be allowed to drive a manual transmission.
>
>
tegger, are we sure he's old enough to drive?

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:auydnTt6oMVadf_enZ2dnUVZ_s-
dnZ2d@speakeasy.net:

> TeGGeR® wrote:
>> "Eric Hymander" <ericDOThymander@R0GERS.C0M> wrote in
>> news:tMGdnd_aiqoXRf_eRVn-rw@rogers.com:
>>
>>
>>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>>The point is to somehow ensure the car is in neutral and e-braked
>>>>before doing so. Units "designed" for mt's require a number of steps
>>>>to try to ensure this. I just can't believe their isn't a more
>>>>direct method of mechanically or otherwise determining "Am I In Neutral
>>>>Yes or No?"
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>er, ok, so what problem are you having? don't you ever check the
>>>>stick?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Of course - but what if I forget. The 'net is full of such horror
>>>stories.
>>
>>
>>
>> What if you "forget"? How ridiculous.
>>
>> If you "forget" such a thing, then you're basically a lousy driver and
>> should not be allowed to drive a manual transmission.
>>
>>
> tegger, are we sure he's old enough to drive?
>
>


Maybe he's got wooden blocks on the pedals.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/