Honda Car Forum

Hi

We just bought a Honda Jazz 1.4 CVT in the UK and love it, except for
one thing. We live on a hill, and it doesn't hold its position when
you're in gear, stationary, and take your foot off the brake. This
makes manoeuvring in and out of tight parking spots a rather exciting
attempt to release the handbrake when the car is revved enough to hold
its position. That doesn't sound at all right to me.

The sales guy said this was easy to fix, it was a software parameter.
This seems reasonable, as the 7-speed manual mode must also be simply
software settings since continuous variable transmission has no gears
(I think).

However, the garage guys (same dealership) are looking blank and have
adjusted the handbrake. Tbh, he seemed a bit daft when we spoke to him
the first time.

So.

1) Do we think that a Honda Jazz CVT that's stationary, on a hill,
should hold its position if we release the brake?

2) If we do, is the cure a software adjustment or a physical thing?

3) If we don't, am I missing some technique .. should I be using the
foot brake or something?

J

john@johnallsopp.co.uk wrote:
> Hi
>
> We just bought a Honda Jazz 1.4 CVT in the UK and love it, except for
> one thing. We live on a hill, and it doesn't hold its position when
> you're in gear, stationary, and take your foot off the brake. This
> makes manoeuvring in and out of tight parking spots a rather exciting
> attempt to release the handbrake when the car is revved enough to hold
> its position. That doesn't sound at all right to me.
>
> The sales guy said this was easy to fix, it was a software parameter.
> This seems reasonable, as the 7-speed manual mode must also be simply
> software settings since continuous variable transmission has no gears
> (I think).
>
> However, the garage guys (same dealership) are looking blank and have
> adjusted the handbrake. Tbh, he seemed a bit daft when we spoke to him
> the first time.
>
> So.
>
> 1) Do we think that a Honda Jazz CVT that's stationary, on a hill,
> should hold its position if we release the brake?
>
> 2) If we do, is the cure a software adjustment or a physical thing?
>
> 3) If we don't, am I missing some technique .. should I be using the
> foot brake or something?
>
> J
>
-------------------------

Not sure about the Jazz, but the owner's manual for non-CVT Hondas say
that it's normal for your Honda to NOT hold it's position, when stopped
uphill.

I'd believe the manual WAY before I'd believe a salesman :-)

'curly'

john@johnallsopp.co.uk wrote:
> We just bought a Honda Jazz 1.4 CVT in the UK and love it, except for
> one thing. We live on a hill, and it doesn't hold its position when
> you're in gear, stationary, and take your foot off the brake.

What was your previous car? And how does it compare on the hill? In
general, all the cars I've driven slide back on a steep hill when you
transition from brake to gas pedal. Except for a Subura that had a
hill-holder feature. I'm not exactly sure how it worked, but I'm
guessing that when it detected that you were on an inclince, it would
hold the brake for an extra half second after you let go of the brake.
It definitely was not the transmission because my car was a manual.

> This
> makes manoeuvring in and out of tight parking spots a rather exciting
> attempt to release the handbrake when the car is revved enough to hold
> its position. That doesn't sound at all right to me.

Actually, the first time I had to parallel park on a steep hill, I
thought it was going to be very difficult and take very long. To my
surprise, it was faster to park on a steep hill because I didn't have
to shift into reverse to go backwards. The car would slide backwards
when I let go of the gas pedal. So I only had to modulate the gas pedal
to go forwards and backwards. It was very efficient. =)

On 6 Jun 2005 13:43:44 -0700, "Bucky" <uw_badgers@email.com> wrote:

>What was your previous car? And how does it compare on the hill? In
>general, all the cars I've driven slide back on a steep hill when you
>transition from brake to gas pedal. Except for a Subura that had a
>hill-holder feature. I'm not exactly sure how it worked, but I'm
>guessing that when it detected that you were on an inclince, it would
>hold the brake for an extra half second after you let go of the brake.
>It definitely was not the transmission because my car was a manual.

I remember when Subaru was pitching this feature. I can't recall
exactly how the brake was set, but it was held by vacuum until the
engine was reved up causing the vacuum to drop and the brake to be
released. My thought at the time: rinky dink feature intended to
relieve you of the need to learn how to operate your car.

Same with the CVT question. Of course it will roll back if the hill
is steep enough. You have two feet, it has two pedals. How hard can
it be? Why burn up the transmission trying to get it to "hold" on the
hill. Hold the brake on and rev it up a little. When it feels like
the engine is starting to labor, ease off the brake. With a little
practice you should be able to do it in your sleep.

gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com (Gordon McGrew) wrote in
news:cvq9a1hj8j41rq7lf7mg89467ok87eq0vc@4ax.com:

>
> I remember when Subaru was pitching this feature. I can't recall
> exactly how the brake was set, but it was held by vacuum until the
> engine was reved up causing the vacuum to drop and the brake to be
> released. My thought at the time: rinky dink feature intended to
> relieve you of the need to learn how to operate your car.


Subaru just resurrected Studebaker's old "Hill-Holder" idea. It wasn't too
successful the second time around, either.


>
> Same with the CVT question. Of course it will roll back if the hill
> is steep enough. You have two feet, it has two pedals. How hard can
> it be? Why burn up the transmission trying to get it to "hold" on the
> hill. Hold the brake on and rev it up a little. When it feels like
> the engine is starting to labor, ease off the brake. With a little
> practice you should be able to do it in your sleep.


Two pedals, two feet. Sounds like a logical solution. You can also apply
the handbrake (while holding in the button) instead of using the foot
brake. Like driving a pre-war car with decoupled brakes.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR® wrote:
> Subaru just resurrected Studebaker's old "Hill-Holder" idea. It wasn't too
> successful the second time around, either.

What do you mean by "wasn't too successful"? In terms of marketing it,
or functionality?

Personally, I liked it. I can handle the clutch/gas/handbrake
coordination, but the hill-holder just made things more convenient. I
wouldn't pay extra for the feature, but it was cool to have.

>j...@johnallsopp.co.uk wrote:
>> We just bought a Honda Jazz 1.4 CVT in the UK and love it, except for
>> one thing. We live on a hill, and it doesn't hold its position when
>> you're in gear, stationary, and take your foot off the brake.

>What was your previous car? And how does it compare on the hill? In
>general, all the cars I've driven slide back on a steep hill when you
>transition from brake to gas pedal.

Previously a Neon, prior to that an old Jag

The dealer has confirmed the same behaviour in another Jazz CVT and
reckons it's something we'll get used to. He also spoke to a regular
customer who always drives CVTs and he said he also gets the rollback
"problem" when pulling out of his street.

I hear the points about two feet, two pedals, but it's counterintuitive
... automatic drivers don't expect to have to use their left foot, but
we'll give it a try.

I think the problem is mostly when we are close parked on a hill.
Because you can't sense a bite point like you do in a manual, there's a
good chance of either rolling back into the car behind, or accelerating
forward into the car in front.

The moral of the story is, I think, that a CVT is not an automatic, it
does behave differently.

Otherwise, the car's great. Thanks for all your inputs.

J

On 8 Jun 2005 02:15:01 -0700, john@johnallsopp.co.uk wrote:


>I think the problem is mostly when we are close parked on a hill.
>Because you can't sense a bite point like you do in a manual, there's a
>good chance of either rolling back into the car behind, or accelerating
>forward into the car in front.

That actually sounds like a tougher problem. Making precise, low
speed maneuvers on a hill can be tricky with an automatic. I have an
Odyssey with AT and a short, steep uphill driveway with a closed
garage door at the top. Pulling up close is kind of hard because the
AT will hold, but not creep. To get it to move forward you have to
make a push on the accelerator and if you are only a couple inches
from the door.

>The moral of the story is, I think, that a CVT is not an automatic, it
>does behave differently.

I really prefer manual transmissions. More control and more fun under
all conditions. (Yeah, I even like 'em better in traffic jams.)

>Otherwise, the car's great. Thanks for all your inputs.

Enjoy it. The CVT is a neat concept and they seem to be reliable
based on the lack of complaints here.

john@johnallsopp.co.uk wrote:
> Hi
>
> We just bought a Honda Jazz 1.4 CVT in the UK and love it, except for
> one thing. We live on a hill, and it doesn't hold its position when
> you're in gear, stationary, and take your foot off the brake. This
> makes manoeuvring in and out of tight parking spots a rather exciting
> attempt to release the handbrake when the car is revved enough to hold
> its position. That doesn't sound at all right to me.
>
> The sales guy said this was easy to fix, it was a software parameter.
> This seems reasonable, as the 7-speed manual mode must also be simply
> software settings since continuous variable transmission has no gears
> (I think).
>
> However, the garage guys (same dealership) are looking blank and have
> adjusted the handbrake. Tbh, he seemed a bit daft when we spoke to him
> the first time.
>
> So.
>
> 1) Do we think that a Honda Jazz CVT that's stationary, on a hill,
> should hold its position if we release the brake?

does it have a torque converter or a mechanical clutch? if the latter,
having it slip to hold the vehicle on the hill is a /bad/ [expensive] idea.

>
> 2) If we do, is the cure a software adjustment or a physical thing?
>
> 3) If we don't, am I missing some technique .. should I be using the
> foot brake or something?

yes, left foot holding brake is what we get taught here in the u.s.
that's why there's a big wide brake pedal on automatics - otherwise a
normal pedal size would suffice.

>
> J
>

Thanks, good info

J