Honda Car Forum

Hi,

I recently acquired a 1987 HF, which runs great and gives me around
40mpg. I have a few questions about this car:

1) When the engine is cold, the car has to make effort to startup. I
have to press on the gas as i turn the ignition. Once its on, I have to
constantly give it gas so it doesn't die out. Could this be the
carburettor, and is it fixable?

2) If I accelerate to around 4000 rpms on 1st gear and quickly change
to 2nd, I feel grinding: actually its more like a jolt. Similar things
happen while going from 2nd to 3rd. Below 4000 or so, the transition is
smooth. Is this a common problem or something is wrong with my tranny?

3) Sometimes, when the car is on and I want to back up from complete
stop, I feel the reverse gear grinding as I switch to reverse. This
happens once in a while, even when I take every care to ensure that the
clutch is pressed all the way down. Then, if I come to neutral and go
reverse again there usually is no grinding.

4) If I am travelling at high speed (60mph on gear 4) and try to shift
to 2nd, I feel grinding.

Are these problems common, and how can I investigate further? I want to
know what this car wants.

- Craig

On 23 May 2005 14:10:46 -0700, "Shark" <cpp_shark@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I recently acquired a 1987 HF, which runs great and gives me around
>40mpg. I have a few questions about this car:
>
>1) When the engine is cold, the car has to make effort to startup. I
>have to press on the gas as i turn the ignition. Once its on, I have to
>constantly give it gas so it doesn't die out. Could this be the
>carburettor, and is it fixable?

Only the Si models had fuel injection, which was the solution to good
cold-start performance. The carburetted models were trying to solve
the problems of meeting the more stringent anti-pollution laws with
lean mixtures and diabolically complex carburation. I had a 1977 CVCC
which gave really excellent milage when warmed up, but from a cold
start it was a miserable bitch until it got up to temperature. My 87
CRX was an Si so I never had that problem.

>2) If I accelerate to around 4000 rpms on 1st gear and quickly change
>to 2nd, I feel grinding: actually its more like a jolt. Similar things
>happen while going from 2nd to 3rd. Below 4000 or so, the transition is
>smooth. Is this a common problem or something is wrong with my tranny?

Your sychros may be showing the effects of age and an overly
enthusiastic former owner.

>3) Sometimes, when the car is on and I want to back up from complete
>stop, I feel the reverse gear grinding as I switch to reverse. This
>happens once in a while, even when I take every care to ensure that the
>clutch is pressed all the way down. Then, if I come to neutral and go
>reverse again there usually is no grinding.

Your clutch may need adjustment. How much travel is there in the pedal
before you feel resistance?

>4) If I am travelling at high speed (60mph on gear 4) and try to shift
>to 2nd, I feel grinding.

That's too fast to go for second. Go for third, then 2nd, or learn to
double-clutch.

>Are these problems common, and how can I investigate further? I want to
>know what this car wants.

Love and tender care. Even better an Si engine and ECU.

"Shark" <cpp_shark@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1116882646.595726.295120@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

> Hi,
>
> I recently acquired a 1987 HF, which runs great and gives me around
> 40mpg. I have a few questions about this car:


I have a question for you: How many miles?


>
> 1) When the engine is cold, the car has to make effort to startup. I
> have to press on the gas as i turn the ignition. Once its on, I have to
> constantly give it gas so it doesn't die out. Could this be the
> carburettor, and is it fixable?


Other than what John Ings has already said, are you flooring the gas and
releasing it before starting from cold? Your carburetor needs this to be
done so the choke can be closed.


>
> 2) If I accelerate to around 4000 rpms on 1st gear and quickly change
> to 2nd, I feel grinding: actually its more like a jolt. Similar things
> happen while going from 2nd to 3rd. Below 4000 or so, the transition is
> smooth. Is this a common problem or something is wrong with my tranny?


As JI says, probably worn synchros. Try shifting at 3K, and moving the
lever a bit slower, pausing briefly in neutral before moving it into 2nd.
Does it grind now?

Your car is old. Like an old man, it needs some time and care to operate
correctly. You cannot zing it like a new car unless it's been completely
rebuilt.

A tip: Use your fingertips only on the lever. If the lever won't go into
2nd without light finger effort, the synchros are not as effective as they
could be, and need more time to operate. Forcing it will wreck them *much*
faster.


>
> 3) Sometimes, when the car is on and I want to back up from complete
> stop, I feel the reverse gear grinding as I switch to reverse. This
> happens once in a while, even when I take every care to ensure that the
> clutch is pressed all the way down. Then, if I come to neutral and go
> reverse again there usually is no grinding.
>
> 4) If I am travelling at high speed (60mph on gear 4) and try to shift
> to 2nd, I feel grinding.


Ay-yi-yi. Don't do that! Get somebody to explain the operation of a manual
transmission car to you before you wreck stuff!

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

John Ings wrote:
> On 23 May 2005 14:10:46 -0700, "Shark" <cpp_shark@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I recently acquired a 1987 HF, which runs great and gives me around
> >40mpg. I have a few questions about this car:
> >
> >1) When the engine is cold, the car has to make effort to startup. I
> >have to press on the gas as i turn the ignition. Once its on, I have
to
> >constantly give it gas so it doesn't die out. Could this be the
> >carburettor, and is it fixable?
>
> Only the Si models had fuel injection, which was the solution to good
> cold-start performance. The carburetted models were trying to solve
> the problems of meeting the more stringent anti-pollution laws with
> lean mixtures and diabolically complex carburation. I had a 1977 CVCC
> which gave really excellent milage when warmed up, but from a cold
> start it was a miserable bitch until it got up to temperature. My 87
> CRX was an Si so I never had that problem.
>
> >2) If I accelerate to around 4000 rpms on 1st gear and quickly
change
> >to 2nd, I feel grinding: actually its more like a jolt. Similar
things
> >happen while going from 2nd to 3rd. Below 4000 or so, the transition
is
> >smooth. Is this a common problem or something is wrong with my
tranny?
>
> Your sychros may be showing the effects of age and an overly
> enthusiastic former owner.
>
> >3) Sometimes, when the car is on and I want to back up from complete
> >stop, I feel the reverse gear grinding as I switch to reverse. This
> >happens once in a while, even when I take every care to ensure that
the
> >clutch is pressed all the way down. Then, if I come to neutral and
go
> >reverse again there usually is no grinding.
>
> Your clutch may need adjustment. How much travel is there in the
pedal
> before you feel resistance?

Almost 3 quarters way down. However whenever I change gears I always
push all the way to the floor.

>
> >4) If I am travelling at high speed (60mph on gear 4) and try to
shift
> >to 2nd, I feel grinding.
>
> That's too fast to go for second. Go for third, then 2nd, or learn to
> double-clutch.

The reason I was trying is because I used to do such things on my
saturn too! I used to redline it on the second gear once every few
weeks. It was able to come from 4th gear to 2nd almost effortlessly.
The CRX is probably too old to accomodate that!

>
> >Are these problems common, and how can I investigate further? I want
to
> >know what this car wants.
>
> Love and tender care. Even better an Si engine and ECU.

Whats ECU?

TeGGeR® wrote:
> "Shark" <cpp_shark@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1116882646.595726.295120@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently acquired a 1987 HF, which runs great and gives me around
> > 40mpg. I have a few questions about this car:
>
>
> I have a question for you: How many miles?

175k !


>
>
> >
> > 1) When the engine is cold, the car has to make effort to startup.
I
> > have to press on the gas as i turn the ignition. Once its on, I
have to
> > constantly give it gas so it doesn't die out. Could this be the
> > carburettor, and is it fixable?
>
>
> Other than what John Ings has already said, are you flooring the gas
and
> releasing it before starting from cold? Your carburetor needs this to
be
> done so the choke can be closed.

Do you mean I need to floor the gas before I turn the key? I never
tried that. I usually press the gas a little bit while I'm starting,
and blip it a little bit now and then while its warming up or if it
falls below 1.5k rpms.

>
>
> >
> > 2) If I accelerate to around 4000 rpms on 1st gear and quickly
change
> > to 2nd, I feel grinding: actually its more like a jolt. Similar
things
> > happen while going from 2nd to 3rd. Below 4000 or so, the
transition is
> > smooth. Is this a common problem or something is wrong with my
tranny?
>
>
> As JI says, probably worn synchros. Try shifting at 3K, and moving
the
> lever a bit slower, pausing briefly in neutral before moving it into
2nd.
> Does it grind now?

no, not this time.

>
> Your car is old. Like an old man, it needs some time and care to
operate
> correctly. You cannot zing it like a new car unless it's been
completely
> rebuilt.
>
> A tip: Use your fingertips only on the lever. If the lever won't go
into
> 2nd without light finger effort, the synchros are not as effective as
they
> could be, and need more time to operate. Forcing it will wreck them
*much*
> faster.
>
>
> >
> > 3) Sometimes, when the car is on and I want to back up from
complete
> > stop, I feel the reverse gear grinding as I switch to reverse. This
> > happens once in a while, even when I take every care to ensure that
the
> > clutch is pressed all the way down. Then, if I come to neutral and
go
> > reverse again there usually is no grinding.
> >
> > 4) If I am travelling at high speed (60mph on gear 4) and try to
shift
> > to 2nd, I feel grinding.
>
>
> Ay-yi-yi. Don't do that! Get somebody to explain the operation of a
manual
> transmission car to you before you wreck stuff!
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

One more question that I forgot to ask: when I open the fuel tank cap
of this car, I feel pressure released.Always happens if I open it when
there some fuel in the car. When almost empty, there is hardly any
pressure. Should this be expected?

"Shark" <cpp_shark@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1116927324.234690.84860@g47g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com:

..
>
> Do you mean I need to floor the gas before I turn the key? I never
> tried that. I usually press the gas a little bit while I'm starting,
> and blip it a little bit now and then while its warming up or if it
> falls below 1.5k rpms.



With carburetors, you need to "choke" off the air supply when you start
from cold. The engine needs an especially rich mixture, because some of the
fuel will condense on the manifold walls on its way to the intake valve.

The action of flooring the pedal will do three things:
1) close the "choke"
2) set the throttle plate open just a crack
3) squirt a shot of fuel into the carb through the accelerator pump

This shot of fuel provides a "prime" charge that helps the car start from
cold.

You can pull the air cleaner cover off and see all this happening. Watch
while a helper floors the pedal.

If the temperature is very cold, you can pump the pedal twice or more,
putting more squirts of fuel into the manifold and aiding starting even
more. You do run the risk of flooding the engine, though, so you need to
experiment with the number of pedal pushes in very cold weather. When you
get to a number that causes hard starting and stumbling when it does start,
that's too many. Back off one or two.

My old Corollas needed five pumps in sub=10F weather.

A common problem with automatic chokes is that they stick open and won't
close when they should. When this happens, the car will be difficult to
start because of a very lean mixture.

Conversely, they will stick ON, resulting in a high idle when hot, very
poor mileage, and hard starting when hot.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On 24 May 2005 02:32:42 -0700, "Shark" <cpp_shark@yahoo.com> wrote:


>> >3) Sometimes, when the car is on and I want to back up from complete
>> >stop, I feel the reverse gear grinding as I switch to reverse. This
>> >happens once in a while, even when I take every care to ensure that
>> >the clutch is pressed all the way down. Then, if I come to neutral and
>> >go reverse again there usually is no grinding.
>>
>> Your clutch may need adjustment. How much travel is there in the
>> pedal before you feel resistance?
>
>Almost 3 quarters way down. However whenever I change gears I always
>push all the way to the floor.

Your clutch needs adjusting. Get yourself a shop manual from the
dealer. Not a Haynes or Chilton's half-assed manual but a REAL manual.
Be sure to get the Coupe supplement with it.

>> >4) If I am travelling at high speed (60mph on gear 4) and try to
>> >shift to 2nd, I feel grinding.
>>
>> That's too fast to go for second. Go for third, then 2nd, or learn to
>> double-clutch.
>
>The reason I was trying is because I used to do such things on my
>saturn too! I used to redline it on the second gear once every few
>weeks. It was able to come from 4th gear to 2nd almost effortlessly.
>The CRX is probably too old to accomodate that!

The CRX is geared lower for better acceleration. 60 is too fast for
2nd.

>> >Are these problems common, and how can I investigate further? I want
>> >to know what this car wants.
>>
>> Love and tender care. Even better an Si engine and ECU.
>
>Whats ECU?

The electronic control unit that runs the fuel injection system.

>One more question that I forgot to ask: when I open the fuel tank cap
>of this car, I feel pressure released.Always happens if I open it when
>there some fuel in the car. When almost empty, there is hardly any
>pressure. Should this be expected?

Normal.

>> I have a question for you: How many miles?

>175k

Has the timing belt been changed? What shape is the bodywork in?
Was it driven on salted roads?

In article <1116927324.234690.84860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
Shark <cpp_shark@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Do you mean I need to floor the gas before I turn the key? I never
>tried that. I usually press the gas a little bit while I'm starting,
>and blip it a little bit now and then while its warming up or if it
>falls below 1.5k rpms.

Many carburated cars needed this procedure (press the accelerator to
the floor, then release, then start) on cold start. Check the owner's
manual.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

remove22@sonic.net (Timothy J. Lee) wrote in
news:d82h6g$it8$1@bolt.sonic.net:

> In article <1116927324.234690.84860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
> Shark <cpp_shark@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Do you mean I need to floor the gas before I turn the key? I never
>>tried that. I usually press the gas a little bit while I'm starting,
>>and blip it a little bit now and then while its warming up or if it
>>falls below 1.5k rpms.
>
> Many carburated cars needed this procedure (press the accelerator to
> the floor, then release, then start) on cold start. Check the owner's
> manual.
>


That's not a valid answer. How many 1987 cars still have their Owner's
Manual with them?

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/