Honda Car Forum

Howdy all... Just need an opinion on some repairs I have had done over
the past few weeks...

I have about 150,000 miles (250,000 km) on this car and have owned it
for about 4 years. It has always been a good car, but brakes have been
an issue recently.

I got the brakes done about 2 years ago, as my pedal was pulsating.
The job was done by someone I did not know (not a Honda dealer), but
came recommended (not any more !). Well, he changed the front rotors
and pads and cleaned out the rear brakes... I continued to have the
problem afterwards, but only at high speed braking... I never went back
(my mistake), as the problem was there but somewhat diminished.

3 weeks ago, I decided to take it in to another mechanic, one whom I
have developed a relationship with over the past couple of years.
Pulsating pedal again. His diagnosis... New front rotors & pads,
service the calipers, bleed the system and clean out the back brakes.
I get the car back ($800 CDN - they also overcharged by about $150 CDN)
and the problem is worse, as the pedal is now "squishy" and, when
stopped at a light, slowly works its way down to the floor ! He says
that there could have been dirt introduced into the Master Cylinder, so
he bleeds the Master Cylinder in hopes of cleaning it out and it is the
same. He says the MS probably needs replacing and the pulsating could
be coming from the back brakes which need doing soon.

I am now frustrated, so I take the car to be analysed by 2 seperate
Honda Dealers in my area. Both come back with similar diagnoses... New
MS, and now... both rear brake cylinders are leaking and need replacing
(how the first guy missed this I can't say !) and perhaps the rear
brake lines will need replacing too !

So... I had the job done ($750 CDN) and the squishy pedal is gone, but
the original problem I had is still there... pulsating pedal. The
original guy did make mention that it could be the hubs that are warped
and, I believe, one of the dealers also mentioned this. So that would
be another $750 CDN to fix that.

Does ANY of this seem reasonable for a 1993 Accord?

Could the original job have caused damage to the Master Cylinder and
the Brake Cylinders?

I am not very familiar with the "hubs" they are speaking of. Can
anyone direct me to a web site that details these brake systems? I
know that the brakes on my 1994 Honda Civic were much simpler than the
Accord.

Thanks for listening.... just had to get it out !!!

Rgds...

srcfyd wrote:
> Howdy all... Just need an opinion on some repairs I have had done over
> the past few weeks...
>
> I have about 150,000 miles (250,000 km) on this car and have owned it
> for about 4 years. It has always been a good car, but brakes have been
> an issue recently.
>
> I got the brakes done about 2 years ago, as my pedal was pulsating.
> The job was done by someone I did not know (not a Honda dealer), but
> came recommended (not any more !). Well, he changed the front rotors
> and pads and cleaned out the rear brakes... I continued to have the
> problem afterwards, but only at high speed braking... I never went back
> (my mistake), as the problem was there but somewhat diminished.
>
> 3 weeks ago, I decided to take it in to another mechanic, one whom I
> have developed a relationship with over the past couple of years.
> Pulsating pedal again. His diagnosis... New front rotors & pads,
> service the calipers, bleed the system and clean out the back brakes.
> I get the car back ($800 CDN - they also overcharged by about $150 CDN)
> and the problem is worse, as the pedal is now "squishy" and, when
> stopped at a light, slowly works its way down to the floor ! He says
> that there could have been dirt introduced into the Master Cylinder, so
> he bleeds the Master Cylinder in hopes of cleaning it out and it is the
> same. He says the MS probably needs replacing and the pulsating could
> be coming from the back brakes which need doing soon.
>
> I am now frustrated, so I take the car to be analysed by 2 seperate
> Honda Dealers in my area. Both come back with similar diagnoses... New
> MS, and now... both rear brake cylinders are leaking and need replacing
> (how the first guy missed this I can't say !) and perhaps the rear
> brake lines will need replacing too !
>
> So... I had the job done ($750 CDN) and the squishy pedal is gone, but
> the original problem I had is still there... pulsating pedal. The
> original guy did make mention that it could be the hubs that are warped
> and, I believe, one of the dealers also mentioned this. So that would
> be another $750 CDN to fix that.
>
> Does ANY of this seem reasonable for a 1993 Accord?
>
> Could the original job have caused damage to the Master Cylinder and
> the Brake Cylinders?
>
> I am not very familiar with the "hubs" they are speaking of. Can
> anyone direct me to a web site that details these brake systems? I
> know that the brakes on my 1994 Honda Civic were much simpler than the
> Accord.
>
> Thanks for listening.... just had to get it out !!!
>
> Rgds...
>
two separate issues. master cylinder, if the pedal sinks to the floor,
is a good thing to replace. it'll last another 150k, particularly if
you have the fluid flushed every year - fresh fluid contains seal
preservatives.

regarding the pulsing, my experience has been that rotors mysteriously
"warp" if the wheels are not tightened correctly. even new ones. most
shops just whack the lug nuts on with an air tool, 1234. best way is
two stage torque, 1324,1324. i took a civic in for brake testing a few
months ago. comparatively new oem disks, brakes perfect on the way into
the shop. wheels off, re-tightened with air tool, brakes pulsed like
sob's all the way home. i took them off again & torqued correctly,
problem /completely/ disappeared.

that said, there is one other [relatively common] cause of brake pulsing
- the top wishbone swivel going. most of the time, this joint is
overlooked in maintenance checks. and you don't notice as a driver much
unless cornering real hard or if the car's very heavily loaded - tends
to wander on the road without moving the steering.

i'd re-torque the wheels myself first. maybe even take the disks off to
make sure there was no rust accumulation on the bearing carrier & inside
the disk, then remove any loose rust on the disk surface that faces the
wheel. while removed, check the top swivels too. need to jack the
suspension up to where it would be in normal operation - that's where
the wear is most pronounced.

fyi, bearing carriers or disks don't just "warp". they're relatively
high quality precision machined cast iron. they can be distorted by
uneven loading or corrosion, and that distortion can in turn cause
uneven wear, but "warping" as such would require sustained operation at
heats /well/ in excess of that experienced in the average passenger car.

"srcfyd" <kr5927@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1116469197.756282.24000@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com:


<snip tale of woe>


>
> Does ANY of this seem reasonable for a 1993 Accord?


Yep. If it's been neglected, which this one has, unfortunately.


>
> Could the original job have caused damage to the Master Cylinder and
> the Brake Cylinders?


To the master cylinder, yes it's possible. The rear drum cylinders go bad
because nobody changed the fluid annually and there is corrosion in them.


>
> I am not very familiar with the "hubs" they are speaking of. Can
> anyone direct me to a web site that details these brake systems? I
> know that the brakes on my 1994 Honda Civic were much simpler than the
> Accord.


They are. It's possible your hubs are bent. A competent mechanic with a
dial gauge should be able to determine that very quickly.

I'm not sure if it's possible for rust to build up on your hubs the way it
can on a Civic, but if it can, the rotor will sit off-kilter, causing
vibration whether or not they machine it afterwards.

An excellent writeup here:
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf100326.htm

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/