Honda Car Forum

My 92 accord DX, auto, 135k miles, stalled while moving, and could not
start since. When I removed the distributor cap and tried to start, the
rotor rotated very slowly, about one round per second. Do you hnow the
normal rotor speed when the engine is cranked?

Also I found some cracks on the plastic of the distribtor housing. Do I
need to replace the housing?

Thanks a lot.

zhang@netscape.com wrote in
news:1107306139.410041.167260@l41g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com:

> My 92 accord DX, auto, 135k miles, stalled while moving, and could not
> start since. When I removed the distributor cap and tried to start,


Too bad. You've probably just toasted your coil.


>
> Also I found some cracks on the plastic of the distribtor housing. Do I
> need to replace the housing?


You mean the distributor cap? Then yes.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

zhang@netscape.com wrote:

> Do you hnow the normal rotor speed when the engine is cranked?

The rotor should run exactly half as fast as the engine. Having the
rotor run at the wrong speed would be a very, very unusual problem. If
your timing belt is broken, the rotor would not turn at all.

> > Also I found some cracks on the plastic of the distribtor housing.
Do I
> > need to replace the housing?
>
>
> You mean the distributor cap? Then yes.

No. It is a part of one of the rotational sensors in the base/housing.
The rotor part of the topmost sensor has a color indicating of going
through a very high temperature, and the stationary plastic part with a
metal contact (I do not know the name) has small cracks. I don't know
how these rotational sensor work. It would be wonderful if someone can
explain it.
While tring to remove the distribtor rotor, I might damage the top
sensor rotor because I pried the distributor rotor agaist it. The
distribtor has no dust inside.

Is it possible the ignition system produces no sparks because the top
rotaional sensor is bad? My plan is to install a rebuilt distributor
with the ignitor. If it does not work, I will replace the ignition
coil. The coil looks fine and every resistance is within the specs.
Anyone has any suggestion about this approach? If the car still does
not start after replacing the distributor and the coil, I really do not
what to do next. For now, I will just cross my figures.

Thanks.

zhang@netscape.com wrote in
news:1107365767.126085.325400@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com:

>> > Also I found some cracks on the plastic of the distribtor housing.
> Do I
>> > need to replace the housing?
>>
>>
>> You mean the distributor cap? Then yes.
>
> No. It is a part of one of the rotational sensors in the base/housing.
> The rotor part of the topmost sensor has a color indicating of going
> through a very high temperature, and the stationary plastic part with a
> metal contact (I do not know the name) has small cracks. I don't know
> how these rotational sensor work. It would be wonderful if someone can
> explain it.



Have a look at these drawings:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/distrotor.html

What number is it on the LOWER drawing?



> While tring to remove the distribtor rotor, I might damage the top
> sensor rotor because I pried the distributor rotor agaist it. The
> distribtor has no dust inside.
>
> Is it possible the ignition system produces no sparks because the top
> rotaional sensor is bad? My plan is to install a rebuilt distributor
> with the ignitor. If it does not work, I will replace the ignition
> coil. The coil looks fine and every resistance is within the specs


....at test voltage. What's it doing when 40,000 volts try to surge through
there?


> Anyone has any suggestion about this approach? If the car still does
> not start after replacing the distributor and the coil, I really do not
> what to do next. For now, I will just cross my figures.


http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

> > No. It is a part of one of the rotational sensors in the
base/housing.
> > The rotor part of the topmost sensor has a color indicating of
going
> > through a very high temperature, and the stationary plastic part
with a
> > metal contact (I do not know the name) has small cracks. I don't
know
> > how these rotational sensor work. It would be wonderful if someone
can
> > explain it.
>
>
>
> Have a look at these drawings:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/distrotor.html
>
> What number is it on the LOWER drawing?

It is #4, the housing. Did you see there is a smaller rotor fixed on
the shaft, and to its left there is a bigger bent plastic piece. They
are one of the CYL/TDC/CRANK sensors in the distributor. Do you know
how they work? Can a misreading from these sensors cause no sparks?

zhang@netscape.com wrote in
news:1107394002.114145.262850@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:

>
>> > No. It is a part of one of the rotational sensors in the
> base/housing.
>> > The rotor part of the topmost sensor has a color indicating of
> going
>> > through a very high temperature, and the stationary plastic part
> with a
>> > metal contact (I do not know the name) has small cracks. I don't
> know
>> > how these rotational sensor work. It would be wonderful if someone
> can
>> > explain it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have a look at these drawings:
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/distrotor.html
>>
>> What number is it on the LOWER drawing?
>
> It is #4, the housing. Did you see there is a smaller rotor fixed on
> the shaft, and to its left there is a bigger bent plastic piece. They
> are one of the CYL/TDC/CRANK sensors in the distributor. Do you know
> how they work? Can a misreading from these sensors cause no sparks?
>
>


Maybe.

There are three of those sensors:
1) Cylinder (detects #1 cyl)
2) TDC (used at startup)
3) Crank angle (rpm sensor & timing)


All these are just Hall-effect sensors. They use the small voltage created
by the proximity of a magnet to signal to the ECU.

Normally, failure of one of these three would set a 4, 8 or 9 code.


A few questions here:
1) What started all this anyway? (pun not intended)
2) What symptoms did you experience prior to complete failure?
3) Were there any ECU trouble codes?
4) Did the engine misfire, or the tach act oddly?
5) Had you replaced the timing belt just prior?

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

>All these are just Hall-effect sensors. They use the small v*oltage
created
>by the proximity of a magnet to signal to the ECU.

So the black rotor is a magnet and a coil is housed in the plastic
part? What is the name of the coil? Is it pick-up coil?

There is a small metal piece, about 1mm wide and 10mm long, attached to
the side of the plastic part. Is the metal piece supposed to contact
the black rotor?

>A few questions here:
>1) What started all this anyway? (pun not intended)
>2) What symptoms did you experience prior to complete failur*e?

My wife was driving the car when it stalled. It lost power first, then
shook and died, based on her account. After many tries next day, it
started once and ran for 2 minutes in "P". It died again when it was
shifted to "D".

>3) Were there any ECU trouble codes?

I regret I did not try this as the first step. When the key is turned
to the ON position, the "check engine" light is on for a few seconds
and then off. Now all the parts have been taken off. The codes are not
accurate, I think.

>4) Did the engine misfire, or the tach act oddly?

I really do not know. It shook before dying. Is this caused by
misfiring.

>5) Had you replaced the timing belt just prior?

The timing belt was replaced many years ago. When I crank the engine,
the distributor rotor rotates slowly about one turn per second. Is it
normal?

I will probably replace the whole distributor this saturday. It will
elliminate these three sesors and the ignitor. If this does not work, i
will replace the ignition coil. If this still does not work, can ECU be
faulty? How to check if ECU is fauty?

Thanks.

zhang@netscape.com wrote in
news:1107447840.911086.132890@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com:

>>All these are just Hall-effect sensors. They use the small v*oltage
> created
>>by the proximity of a magnet to signal to the ECU.
>
> So the black rotor is a magnet and a coil is housed in the plastic
> part? What is the name of the coil? Is it pick-up coil?


Yes. Google for more. All Hall-effect sensors work the same.


>
> There is a small metal piece, about 1mm wide and 10mm long, attached to
> the side of the plastic part. Is the metal piece supposed to contact
> the black rotor?


No. It just comes close.


>
>>A few questions here:
>>1) What started all this anyway? (pun not intended)
>>2) What symptoms did you experience prior to complete failur*e?
>
> My wife was driving the car when it stalled. It lost power first, then
> shook and died, based on her account. After many tries next day, it
> started once and ran for 2 minutes in "P". It died again when it was
> shifted to "D".


Sounds like the igniter or coil. Could also be the ignition switch or main
relay.

For the nth time, avail yourself of the collective wisdom of this group by
going here and reading how to tell if certain components are bad:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling

If you go there (which you obviously have not in spite of me pointing you
it it several times):
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#stalling
you will find detailed instructions on how to test the coil, igniter, main
relay and ignition switch.


>
>>3) Were there any ECU trouble codes?
>
> I regret I did not try this as the first step. When the key is turned
> to the ON position, the "check engine" light is on for a few seconds
> and then off. Now all the parts have been taken off. The codes are not
> accurate, I think.


Why don't you try getting them. If you have not disconnected the battery or
cleared the codes by pulling the Backup fuse, the codes are still there.

Count the ECU flashes and post them here.


>
> The timing belt was replaced many years ago. When I crank the engine,
> the distributor rotor rotates slowly about one turn per second. Is it
> normal?


The rotor is solidly affixed to the camshaft. Your worrying about rotor
roational speed is a total waste of everybody's time. Either the engine is
cranking over or it is not. Even slow cranking will allow the engine to
fire.

Your attempts to see the rotor turn have probably ruined the coil by
forcing a ground path through the body of the coil.



>
> I will probably replace the whole distributor this saturday. It will
> elliminate these three sesors and the ignitor. If this does not work, i
> will replace the ignition coil. If this still does not work, can ECU be
> faulty? How to check if ECU is fauty?
>


Unless the ECU had got wet from flooding, HIGHLY unlikely. Honda ECUs are
extremely, stupendously reliable.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Thank you for your time to reply. I just installed a new distributor.
Everything seems fine after the timing is set. Thanks.