Honda Car Forum

"Tech21" <phantom_fg1@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:3e4a7cbd30731404646b36c5b06b6436@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com:


> I still favour that they have knobbed the master cylinder in some way
> shape or form when they pushed the fluid back into it as opposed to
> cracking the bleed nipples off and pushing the fluid out that way.
> Is there any way of testing the master cylinder or servo to get
> quantifiable figures??




Step on the foot pedal and hold it. If it eventually goes to the floor,
there is a leak somewhere, possibly in the master cylinder. If the pedal
does NOT go to the floor, but settles to a position OFF the floor and stays
there, the master cylinder is OK.

You mention air in the lines. This is interesting, and I had not thought of
that. Air will cause the pedal to feel spongy and soft. You had not
reported a spongy, soft pedal before, just a delayed pedal effect. I wonder
if I've misinterpreted your description?

A note here: Sometimes removing air from the calipers is not easy,
especially at the rears. Bubbles can adhere to internal surfaces.

You may need to remove the caliper from the mount bracket, insert a piece
of wood to keep the piston still, rap the caliper with a nylon hammer while
turning it over in your hands, then bleed. This may need to be done
repeatedly.

It is possible to accidentally get air in the master cylinder and
proportioning valve while bleeding if you forget to check the master
cylinder level as you work (easy to do!). If air gets into the master
cylinder, this can be difficult to remove without "bench bleeding" it,
which means removing the MC from the car.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

The pedal doesn't feel spongy in the normal sense of having air in the
system it just requires more effort (and pushing farer down) to get the
car to slow down. Sometimes if you pump the pedal the car will pull up
better but only on the odd occasion, so it doesn't appear to look like air
in the system in the normal sense.
The pedal doesn't feel any different now as to when it first came back
from the dealers after having the pads fitted. I took it back for a
mechanic to test drive on a Saturday morning, he drove it, said the that
the pedal pressure required felt like the servo hadn't been connected but
(same as I did) he pumped the brakes with the engine off to get rid of the
vacuum, pedal went solid, pressure on the pedal - switch engine on - pedal
goes down so the servo is working. He booked the car back in and they
found air in the system.
Since getting the car back after pads were fitted the pedal has felt the
same, with air in the system (as they claimed) or bled out (as they also
claimed). It feels the same now as it did before the Honda mechanic
test-drove it and said that there was a problem with it. This is why I am
very pissed off because nothing that has been done to the car since has
made any difference to how the pedal feels, the only time it feels OK is
when the rotors have rusted up over night, this is the only car out of the
5 that I own that pulls up better with light rust on the rotors, all the
others (Civic 1.8 Vti, 2.0 Prelude, Saab Griffin V6 and a 305CuI Chevrolet
C10) don't start working properly untill the rust has been removed by the
first few brake applications.
The mechanic who test drove it no longer works there (so I am told) so
there is no way I can ask him if it feels any better and all the other
mechanics from there who have driven it say it's OK, it's safe and that
"..they all feel like that.." when I know for a fact that they don't all
feel like that.

I assume that I check the M/C with the engine off and the servo at
atmospheric?
The pedal can be pushed all the way to the floor with the servo running,
is this normal? because it is much harder to floor the pedal on my 1.8
Vti.

Is there anything electrical that could affect the brakes, something that
I can remove the fuse to dis the circuit so the electrics are out of the
equation?

Regards

G

"Tech21" <phantom_fg1@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:4e61062d5dc97c11494660be9d3150d7@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com:


> The pedal can be pushed all the way to the floor with the servo
> running, is this normal?



NO NO NO! Not at all.

The pedal should stop a good inch off the floor.

If the pedal goes to the floor right away if you push hard enough, there's
air in the system somewhere. It might not be in the lines themselves, but
in the MC or calipers.

If the pedal takes 30 secxonds or so to sink slowly to the floor, there is
the possibility of a leak, most likely in the MC.


>
> Is there anything electrical that could affect the brakes,


The only thing I can think of is ABS. Did they bleed the ABS at the same
time as the rest of the system?


You've got air in there.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/