Honda Car Forum

"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:tOLxd.533666$Pl.61127@pd7tw1no...
> For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations sometimes have
> water leaks that may not be apparent. I had a Supra that leaked water at
> the hatch. Windows seemed to fog easily. Discovered one day that the
> spare
> tire well was half full of water.
> Steve

Thanks. We had that very issue with this car (89 Toyota Corolla). The
spare tire well filled with water shortly after we bought the car. It
[water] was coming in from the rear lights which were newly installed
(without sealant). Fixed that problem.

No AC in this car. So, unfortunately, with where we live (Northwest Oregon)
and the amount of rain we get and how cold it is here until, like, next
August -- LOL -- we'll just have to deal with it. Floormats are a must in
this wet area. SO they're stayin'.

I will try Anti-Fog wipes. Will see how those work out. Rainex works great
in this area. I know that much. But that's the outside. And the wipers
work fine getting that "condenstation" off the windows.

Aaron

The low temp cutout may have different settings, but that is most likely a
result of the diferent refrigerants used, r12 vs 134a, Your 83 may still
run at 40, but there is a temp close to that where it will no longer engage.
They all had low temp cutouts for the very reason I mentioned. Or, the low
temp cutout may have been by-passed or is not working properly. Take it out
on a cold frosty morning and run the ac and let us know what happens.
I'm a mechanic by trade (inter-provincially licensed) and worked in the
field in the 70's and 80's and never saw a compressor cycle in temp below 35
to 40 F. Up here in the frozen north of Canada we use our defrost a lot and
they would engage the compressor in the mild weather, but have never seen a
compressor run in the cold.
Not sure what it has to do with buying a 3 gal toilet tho...
<MajorDomo@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:41C78DD7.991EF9E3@mailcity.com...
> You certainly are entitle to your own opinion. The AC on my 83
> Continental will run below 40 degrees but not my 2005 Lincoln LS
> or my 2003 Mustang GT. Go try a buy a three gallon toilet or a
> new model top loading washing machine in the US today.
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
>
> Steve G wrote:
> >
> > No it's not!
> > AC systems have always had low temp cutouts on them, and it's not idiocy
for
> > the above poster. The ac is called for anytime the defrost is selected
on
> > most cars but is prevented from cutting in below 40 F because below that
> > temp the gaseous refrigerant will liquefy and as we all know you can not
> > compress a liquid. It cuts it out so that your compressor doesn't smash
to
> > little bits trying to compress liquid refrigerant.
> > Short lesson in refrigeration, compressor draws in low pressure gas,
pumps
> > out high pressure gas. High pressure gas condenses into a liquid under
> > pressure in... what else but the condenser (that other rad in the front
of
> > your car). High pressure liquid is metered/sprayed into the evaporator
> > where it becomes a low pressure gas again and so on.
> >
> > For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations sometimes have
> > water leaks that may not be apparent. I had a Supra that leaked water
at
> > the hatch. Windows seemed to fog easily. Discovered one day that the
spare
> > tire well was half full of water.
> > Steve
> > <MajorDomo@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> > news:41C78298.78A50057@mailcity.com...
> > > The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC's, at 40
> > > degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy. Same
> > > as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing
> > > machines sold in the US. Your government at work.
> > >
> > >
> > > mike hunt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Gary L. Burnore" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:43:59 -0500, Abeness <news@nada.x> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >C. E. White wrote:
> > > > >> Unfortunately most A/C systems don't run once the
> > > > >> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
> > > > >
> > > > >I don't believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my old
> > > > >Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster setting--switch
the
> > > > >system to defrost, and the A/C was activated.
> > > >
> > > > It depends on the make/model. My cressida shuts the A/C off if you
> > > > turn the inside temp past 75%.
> > > >
> > > > >Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the seals
> > lubricated, in addition to
> > > > >removing condensation. Worked at any temp, as I recall, and I move
> > > > >around NY/New England.
> > > >
> > > > It does help with condensation. There's no doubt about that.
> > > >
> > > > >I'll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now
> > gotten
> > > > >cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40 degrees
would
> > be
> > > > >idiocy--it's the only way to remove condensation effectively.
> > > >
> > > > I'm pretty sure that even in his case, it's the temp you set the
> > > > control to and not the outside temp.
> > > >
> > > > >It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don't function when the
> > outside temp
> > > > >is "too low"--which occasionally annoys me.
> > > >
> > > > There's a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of the
> > > > A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

"Abeness" <news@nada.x> wrote in message
news:Qf6dnRCLjPwQpFrcRVn-3w@rcn.net
> C. E. White wrote:
>> Unfortunately most A/C systems don't run once the
>> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
>
> I don't believe this holds true for automotive systems.

It does apply to automotive A/C.

>On my old
> Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster setting--switch
> the system to defrost, and the A/C was activated. Good way to keep
> the compressor oils circulating to keep the seals lubricated, in
> addition to removing condensation. Worked at any temp, as I recall,
> and I move around NY/New England.
>
> I'll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now
> gotten cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40
> degrees would be idiocy--it's the only way to remove condensation
> effectively. It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don't
> function when the outside temp is "too low"--which occasionally
> annoys me.

In fact, A/C systems start cycling the compressor at no less than 38 degrees
F. SO... when the air coming into the evaporator reaches this low
temperature, the compressor is cycled or shut OFF if the air temperature
entering the evaporator continues to drop. Otherwise the evaporator would
become a block of ice, which would prevent any air from reaching the heater
core (in nearly all cases).

--

- Philip

Where did *you* read that it's a Federal Regulation about cutting A/C at 40
degrees? And don't give me that "go look it up BS."
--

- Philip

<MajorDomo@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:41C78298.78A50057@mailcity.com
> The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC's, at 40
> degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy. Same
> as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing
> machines sold in the US. Your government at work.
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
>
> "Gary L. Burnore" wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:43:59 -0500, Abeness <news@nada.x> wrote:
>>
>>> C. E. White wrote:
>>>> Unfortunately most A/C systems don't run once the
>>>> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
>>>
>>> I don't believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my old
>>> Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster
>>> setting--switch the
>>> system to defrost, and the A/C was activated.
>>
>> It depends on the make/model. My cressida shuts the A/C off if you
>> turn the inside temp past 75%.
>>
>>> Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the
>>> seals lubricated, in addition to removing condensation. Worked at
>>> any temp, as I recall, and I move
>>> around NY/New England.
>>
>> It does help with condensation. There's no doubt about that.
>>
>>> I'll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now
>>> gotten
>>> cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40 degrees
>>> would be
>>> idiocy--it's the only way to remove condensation effectively.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure that even in his case, it's the temp you set the
>> control to and not the outside temp.
>>
>>> It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don't function when the
>>> outside temp
>>> is "too low"--which occasionally annoys me.
>>
>> There's a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of
>> the
>> A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

About a year ago, I did have to replace one of our toilets. Bought a new
Kohler. They play all sorts of timing, level, and displacement tricks to
limit the flush volume to 1.6 gallons. But after you "change things" and
since the tank size permits more water storage, the flush can easily be
increased to just under 3 gallons. Want a used 5 gallon flusher? LOL

And you are COMPLETELY in error about buying a top loader washing machine.
They dominate by wide margin. Front loaders are the in the small minority
of units sold.

--

- Philip


<MajorDomo@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:41C78DD7.991EF9E3@mailcity.com
> You certainly are entitle to your own opinion. The AC on my 83
> Continental will run below 40 degrees but not my 2005 Lincoln LS
> or my 2003 Mustang GT. Go try a buy a three gallon toilet or a
> new model top loading washing machine in the US today.
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
>
> Steve G wrote:
>>
>> No it's not!
>> AC systems have always had low temp cutouts on them, and it's not
>> idiocy for the above poster. The ac is called for anytime the
>> defrost is selected on most cars but is prevented from cutting in
>> below 40 F because below that temp the gaseous refrigerant will
>> liquefy and as we all know you can not compress a liquid. It cuts
>> it out so that your compressor doesn't smash to little bits trying
>> to compress liquid refrigerant.
>> Short lesson in refrigeration, compressor draws in low pressure
>> gas, pumps out high pressure gas. High pressure gas condenses
>> into a liquid under pressure in... what else but the condenser
>> (that other rad in the front of your car). High pressure liquid
>> is metered/sprayed into the evaporator where it becomes a low
>> pressure gas again and so on.
>>
>> For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations
>> sometimes have water leaks that may not be apparent. I had a
>> Supra that leaked water at the hatch. Windows seemed to fog
>> easily. Discovered one day that the spare tire well was half full
>> of water.
>> Steve
>> <MajorDomo@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>> news:41C78298.78A50057@mailcity.com...
>>> The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC's, at 40
>>> degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy. Same
>>> as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing
>>> machines sold in the US. Your government at work.
>>>
>>>
>>> mike hunt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Gary L. Burnore" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:43:59 -0500, Abeness <news@nada.x> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> C. E. White wrote:
>>>>>> Unfortunately most A/C systems don't run once the
>>>>>> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my
>>>>> old Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster
>>>>> setting--switch the system to defrost, and the A/C was
>>>>> activated.
>>>>
>>>> It depends on the make/model. My cressida shuts the A/C off if
>>>> you turn the inside temp past 75%.
>>>>
>>>>> Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the
>>>>> seals lubricated, in addition to removing condensation. Worked
>>>>> at any temp, as I recall, and I move around NY/New England.
>>>>
>>>> It does help with condensation. There's no doubt about that.
>>>>
>>>>> I'll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has
>>>>> now gotten cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below
>>>>> 40 degrees would be idiocy--it's the only way to remove
>>>>> condensation effectively.
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure that even in his case, it's the temp you set the
>>>> control to and not the outside temp.
>>>>
>>>>> It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don't function when
>>>>> the outside temp is "too low"--which occasionally annoys me.
>>>>
>>>> There's a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of
>>>> the A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Has nothing to do with the refrigerant. Has solely to do with the
temperature water freezes at ... 32 degrees. Since in most cases, all air
flows thru the evaporator and then to or past the heater core, were the
water on the evaporator be allowed to freeze solid, no air would flow out of
any of the plenum chamber outlets.
--

- Philip

"Steve G" <NospamforSteve@Steve-Garner.com> wrote in message
news:0ZOxd.534980$Pl.108826@pd7tw1no
> The low temp cutout may have different settings, but that is most
> likely a result of the diferent refrigerants used, r12 vs 134a,
> Your 83 may still run at 40, but there is a temp close to that
> where it will no longer engage. They all had low temp cutouts for
> the very reason I mentioned. Or, the low temp cutout may have been
> by-passed or is not working properly. Take it out on a cold frosty
> morning and run the ac and let us know what happens.
> I'm a mechanic by trade (inter-provincially licensed) and worked in
> the field in the 70's and 80's and never saw a compressor cycle in
> temp below 35 to 40 F. Up here in the frozen north of Canada we
> use our defrost a lot and they would engage the compressor in the
> mild weather, but have never seen a compressor run in the cold.
> Not sure what it has to do with buying a 3 gal toilet tho...
> <MajorDomo@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:41C78DD7.991EF9E3@mailcity.com...
>> You certainly are entitle to your own opinion. The AC on my 83
>> Continental will run below 40 degrees but not my 2005 Lincoln LS
>> or my 2003 Mustang GT. Go try a buy a three gallon toilet or a
>> new model top loading washing machine in the US today.
>>
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve G wrote:
>>>
>>> No it's not!
>>> AC systems have always had low temp cutouts on them, and it's not
>>> idiocy for the above poster. The ac is called for anytime the
>>> defrost is selected on most cars but is prevented from cutting in
>>> below 40 F because below that temp the gaseous refrigerant will
>>> liquefy and as we all know you can not compress a liquid. It
>>> cuts it out so that your compressor doesn't smash to little bits
>>> trying to compress liquid refrigerant.
>>> Short lesson in refrigeration, compressor draws in low pressure
>>> gas, pumps out high pressure gas. High pressure gas condenses
>>> into a liquid under pressure in... what else but the condenser
>>> (that other rad in the front of your car). High pressure liquid
>>> is metered/sprayed into the evaporator where it becomes a low
>>> pressure gas again and so on.
>>>
>>> For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations
>>> sometimes have water leaks that may not be apparent. I had a
>>> Supra that leaked water
> at
>>> the hatch. Windows seemed to fog easily. Discovered one day
>>> that the spare tire well was half full of water.
>>> Steve
>>> <MajorDomo@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>> news:41C78298.78A50057@mailcity.com...
>>>> The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC's, at 40
>>>> degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy. Same
>>>> as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing
>>>> machines sold in the US. Your government at work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> mike hunt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Gary L. Burnore" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:43:59 -0500, Abeness <news@nada.x> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> C. E. White wrote:
>>>>>>> Unfortunately most A/C systems don't run once the
>>>>>>> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my
>>>>>> old Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster
>>>>>> setting--switch the system to defrost, and the A/C was
>>>>>> activated.
>>>>>
>>>>> It depends on the make/model. My cressida shuts the A/C off if
>>>>> you turn the inside temp past 75%.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the
>>>>>> seals lubricated, in addition to removing condensation. Worked
>>>>>> at any temp, as I recall, and I move around NY/New England.
>>>>>
>>>>> It does help with condensation. There's no doubt about that.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has
>>>>>> now gotten cold enough around here to check. Disabling it
>>>>>> below 40 degrees would be idiocy--it's the only way to remove
>>>>>> condensation effectively.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty sure that even in his case, it's the temp you set the
>>>>> control to and not the outside temp.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don't function when
>>>>>> the outside temp is "too low"--which occasionally annoys me.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside
>>>>> of the A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

In article <cq76o2$iip$8@chihuahua.databasix.com>,
gburnore@databasix.com says...

>
> BTW, while there are products out there that are sold specifically to
> curtail condensation, a bottle of windex and some newspaper works very
> well.

Just Newspaper on it's own does a fair job, without smears if the
windows are only a little grubby on the inside too. And you can dry a
slightly damp window with Newspaper and clean it at the same time.

One tip, alcohol based de-icers for the outside of glass can actually
cause misting on the inside because they change temperature so quickly
the condensation forms from moisture in the car. You'll get less
condensation if the glass is scraped without de-icer (unless it is so
hard you can't shift it).

--
"Sorry Sir, the meatballs are Orf"
The poster formerly known as Skodapilot.
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

MajorDomo@mailcity.com wrote:
> new model top loading washing machine in the US today.

they still sell top loaders

Gary L. Burnore wrote:
> There's a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of the
> A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Hah hah. I can't see anything but destruction in my future from doing
that... either the system overheats cuz there aren't enough holes, or
there are too many holes to keep it warm. I could blow a few units
trying to get it right! I can live with it.

Philip wrote:
> In fact, A/C systems start cycling the compressor at no less than 38 degrees
> F. SO... when the air coming into the evaporator reaches this low
> temperature, the compressor is cycled or shut OFF if the air temperature
> entering the evaporator continues to drop. Otherwise the evaporator would
> become a block of ice, which would prevent any air from reaching the heater
> core (in nearly all cases).

Now THIS makes perfect sense. (I'd have to look up the temp at which
refrigerants go liquid to confirm or deny Steve G's belief.) I'm almost
certain that the A/C on my old 85 Pontiac would cycle at any temp,
though. I'll check up with the Honda soon.

Anyway, I doubt it would be that difficult (in the original design) to
construct an airflow system that would shunt warmer air around the evap
unit when the temp dropped in winter, in order to preserve the
dehumidifying characteristics of an A/C-based system.