Honda Car Forum

"Abeness" <news@nada.x> wrote
> SoCalMike wrote:
> > ive never had a "problem" per se, with aftermarket. maybe a little more
> > noise or dust, but nothing i cant live with.
>
> OK, thanks for the info.
>
> > as long as you can take the worn out pads back and get a new set from
> > the same place, its all good.
>
> Seems crazy to me. I mean, aren't they designed to wear out? Must refer
> to faulty materials, not regular wear, but I'll read the fine print.

This came up a few months ago when I posted that I'd bought Raybestos pads with
a "lifetime warranty" a coupla years ago. I thought as you did: That normal wear
and tear doesn't count. But someone here at the newsgroup (Mike?) said he
thought it might be otherwise.

I asked about this in my brakes class recently. One of the guys works for a
Checker auto parts store and answered. He said that not long ago, Raybestos did
warranty its pads for life, including normal wear and tear. This has since
changed, according to him.

When my Raybestos pads wear, I'm going to take them and the warranty, receipt
etc. to a nearby Carquest and see what they say.

My impression for now is that lifetime warranties, even for normal wear and
tear, may still exist for brake pads.

Abeness wrote:

> SoCalMike wrote:
>
>> ive never had a "problem" per se, with aftermarket. maybe a little
>> more noise or dust, but nothing i cant live with.
>
>
> OK, thanks for the info.
>
>> as long as you can take the worn out pads back and get a new set from
>> the same place, its all good.
>
>
> Seems crazy to me. I mean, aren't they designed to wear out? Must refer
> to faulty materials, not regular wear, but I'll read the fine print.

AFAICT, "lifetime" pads are lifetime pads. they count on people to lose
the receipt, forget, or sell the car.
>
>> nah- screw type in the rear. get a large c-clamp from a place like
>> harbor freight and try it.
>>
>> you might not really have a stuck caliper at all. who knows?
>
>
> That's what I'm hoping. Will try on Tue and hope for the best.

the only one ive ever seen got the caliper so hot the boot melted, and
all the fluid leaked out.

TeGGer® wrote:
> "Downshifting" without double-clutching is not smart. You are NOT supposed
> to use the clutch as a brake pad.
>
> Downshift properly and there is zero wear on the friction disc.

I've heard here that double-clutching means putting it in neutral
between shifts and letting the clutch out (i.e., releasing the pedal),
but wouldn't the point be to simply rev-match (approximately, after long
experience) before engaging at the lower gear, to reduce the wear on the
clutch?

TeGGer® wrote:
> Don't get silicone on the rotor friction surface. But since the caliper is
> OFF the rotor as you work on it, that's not a problem. Anywhere else is
> fine, including contact with the brake fluid.

Thanks again, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I already know
enough not to get it on the rotor!

Incidentally, would it be imprudent to dab a small amount of brake
caliper grease at the edges of the pad backing plate where it contacts
the caliper? My existing pads are pretty well stuck at that point with
rust. I'm assuming I'll wire-brush/sand the caliper at that point before
installing the new pads.

> You don't need to disassemble the installed caliper. The procedure I gave
> specifically avoids that.

Sorry, I should've said something like "doubt I'll be messing with the
boot"--I don't want to stress it at all if the rubber is on the old
side. 'Spose I could examine it and decide on the spot.

If I understood you correctly, the piston is supposed to be able to
rotate--so there's no channel that prevents it from doing so? Or is it
that I have to eject the piston past such a channel?

SoCalMike wrote:
> AFAICT, "lifetime" pads are lifetime pads. they count on people to lose
> the receipt, forget, or sell the car.

I'll take a look at the warranty and file the receipt anyway. Far out.

> the only one ive ever seen got the caliper so hot the boot melted, and
> all the fluid leaked out.

The boot is fine. Maybe I'll be lucky...

TeGGer® wrote:
> As of today, 237,811 miles (and counting) on my original. Owned the car
> since new, too.

Whew! Sure wish I could take a ride with you to learn how to do it
properly! Not that I've worn out a clutch yet, but the previous owner
had hers replaced at a mere 81K, I bought it at 112K, and have no
illusions that I'm an expert at shifting--I may be doing it right, might
be less-than-perfect. At least I don't ever smell that clutch-burning
smell... ;-) Anyway, I'm still working out the occasional kinks after 8
yeasr with an automatic.

Abeness wrote:
> Incidentally, would it be imprudent to dab a small amount of brake
> caliper grease at the edges of the pad backing plate where it contacts
> the caliper?

Never mind, I just reread your FAQ comments on the topic.

Abeness wrote:
>
> TeGGer® wrote:
> > "Downshifting" without double-clutching is not smart. You are NOT supposed
> > to use the clutch as a brake pad.
> >
> > Downshift properly and there is zero wear on the friction disc.
>
> I've heard here that double-clutching means putting it in neutral
> between shifts and letting the clutch out (i.e., releasing the pedal),
> but wouldn't the point be to simply rev-match (approximately, after long
> experience) before engaging at the lower gear, to reduce the wear on the
> clutch?

I am in full agreement with you on what double-clutching is. In the good
old days, before fully synchronized transmissions, double-clutching was
a must.

Doing it on a car with a synchronized transmission does not reduce wear
on the clutch, but it reduces wear on the synchros. If your synchros are
already worn out, double-clutching will allow you to shift with less
clunking and grinding, particularly on down-shifts.

Abeness wrote:
> TeGGer® wrote:
>
>> "Downshifting" without double-clutching is not smart. You are NOT
>> supposed to use the clutch as a brake pad.
>>
>> Downshift properly and there is zero wear on the friction disc.
>
>
> I've heard here that double-clutching means putting it in neutral
> between shifts and letting the clutch out (i.e., releasing the pedal),
> but wouldn't the point be to simply rev-match (approximately, after long
> experience) before engaging at the lower gear, to reduce the wear on the
> clutch?

there's no real wear on the clutch from shifting, whether just relying
on synchros or double clutching. clutch wear comes from drive-away from
a standstill, holding it on the clutch on hills, "resting" a foot on the
clutch pedal on the freeway, etc. if you don't peel away from lights,
use the parking brake on hills & rest your foot on the floor, there's no
reason a clutch won't last like tegger's is doing. also don't under
rate a dealer's hunger for recommending unnecessary work.

yes, double clutching is putting into neutral and using engine revs to
spin/slow the ratios on the next gear so they engage cleanly. even with
synchros, many big rig drivers still do it to reduce synchro wear or
even get the thing into gear in the first place! it's less of an issue
these days, but when synchros first came in, some designs weren't too
good and they'd wear out quickly. expensive! with a good modern
synchro, once moving, you can change gear without using the clutch at
all. don't make a habit of it, but you can test that for yourself -
just do what you'd do normally to shift with shift lever & throttle, but
don't touch the clutch! honda synchros are very good and won't let you
fubar anything unless you try /real/ hard.

Abeness <news@nada.x> floridly penned in
news:xeOdndmlSLKGATfcRVn-rQ@rcn.net:


>
> Incidentally, would it be imprudent to dab a small amount of brake
> caliper grease at the edges of the pad backing plate where it contacts
> the caliper? My existing pads are pretty well stuck at that point with
> rust. I'm assuming I'll wire-brush/sand the caliper at that point
> before installing the new pads.


Copper grease or M77 , not silicone, goes there. Check my Brake Service
pages again for photos of where to put the grease.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes2.html
about 3/4 of the way down. One thing I noitce I don't show is putting a bit
of grease on the shim that rests against the piston. A little should go
there as well. You can even separately put some on the caliper hooks
themselves as well as the shims and pads.


>
>> You don't need to disassemble the installed caliper. The procedure I
>> gave specifically avoids that.
>
> Sorry, I should've said something like "doubt I'll be messing with the
> boot"--I don't want to stress it at all if the rubber is on the old
> side. 'Spose I could examine it and decide on the spot.


Rubber should be fine. It lasts a long time. If it is aged and brittle,
you'll know the instant you try to pull it out of the groove.




>
> If I understood you correctly, the piston is supposed to be able to
> rotate--so there's no channel that prevents it from doing so? Or is it
> that I have to eject the piston past such a channel?


It's hard to turn because it's so big and may be gummed up, but you CAN
turn it. Put silicone in first, work the piston in and out a few times to
loosen it up, then try to turn it. You need to eject it enough to pull the
dust boot off the groove in the piston. Make sure you don't scar up the
piston inboard of the boot groove.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/