Honda Car Forum

my 91 accord had problems starting tonight, could it be the starter?
Something seems to be messed up where I turn the key. is that the starter or
is a starter located under the hood? Sorry I dont know shit about cars!

RAT

Sure it could be the starter but then it could be many things - you have to
be a little more specific.
What does it do when you turn the key to start? What do you hear and what
does the car do?

Regards,
Remco

"Rattus the RAT" <rats_and_guns_n_rosesREMOVE-THIS@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:302ithF2r5qbcU1@uni-berlin.de...
> my 91 accord had problems starting tonight, could it be the starter?
> Something seems to be messed up where I turn the key. is that the starter
or
> is a starter located under the hood? Sorry I dont know shit about cars!
>
> RAT
>
>

"remcow" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RIUmd.13538$hc5.6431133@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> Sure it could be the starter but then it could be many things - you have
to
> be a little more specific.
> What does it do when you turn the key to start? What do you hear and what
> does the car do?

well I had main relays problem before due to hot weather and sun but that
was not the case today. I stopped somewhere to buy a few things and when I
tried to restarted it, it kinda started but stopped immediately, tried
again, no luck, tried again and tried to give some gas when it was kinda
starting just after I turned the key, no luck. it took like 20-30 minutes
before I could start it. the "turning the key" feeling seemed different than
usual.

RAT

"Rattus the RAT" <rats_and_guns_n_rosesREMOVE-THIS@yahoo.com> sprach im
news:302jmtF2rhlgpU1@uni-berlin.de:

>
> "remcow" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:RIUmd.13538$hc5.6431133@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
>> Sure it could be the starter but then it could be many things - you
>> have
> to
>> be a little more specific.
>> What does it do when you turn the key to start? What do you hear and
>> what does the car do?
>
> well I had main relays problem before due to hot weather and sun but
> that was not the case today. I stopped somewhere to buy a few things
> and when I tried to restarted it, it kinda started but stopped
> immediately, tried again, no luck, tried again and tried to give some
> gas when it was kinda starting just after I turned the key, no luck.
> it took like 20-30 minutes before I could start it. the "turning the
> key" feeling seemed different than usual.



Did it start, but stall as soon as you released the key?


--
TeGGeR®

The Unoffical Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Rattus the RAT wrote:
> it kinda started but stopped immediately, tried
> again, no luck, tried again and tried to give some gas when it was kinda
> starting just after I turned the key, no luck. it took like 20-30 minutes
> before I could start it. the "turning the key" feeling seemed different than
> usual.

If it started to run while you still had the key in the "start" position
but then died when you released it, it sounds like the ignition switch
has worn out. The starter is the small motor that makes the starting
noise when you turn the key to start position. If that makes the usual
noise and the engine catches at first, the starter is fine.

Hey Rat

Ok, so when you turn the key, the motor does turn over? It just
doesn't start, right? The starter is a motor that makes the engine
turn over when you turn the key, so that is most likely not your
problem.

When you do finally get it started, do you see a huge puff of smoke
coming from the exaust? Also, while it isn't starting, do you smell
gas under the hood?
If you see/smell that, the engine may be flooding with gas and you may
want to look at the ignition to make sure you get a good spark.
At Pepboys/Autozone they sell a simple inexpensive widget. Ask for a
spark tester - they'll point you in the right direction. Pull one
sparkplug off and put this thing in its place (the instructions tell
you how). Start the car and watch for a spark.

If there is no indication that you have gas coming to your engine, it
could be your main relay (but it could still be many other things). A
classic sign is that it starts and then stops after a second or two.
When you turn the key to where the dashlights turn on, the fuel pump
is turned on briefly to prime the system - you should hear the fuel
pump buzz if you listen closely (the fuel pump is under the back
seat).
Once the car is being started, the fuel pump is turned on permanently
and supplies fuel - that action may not be working right. The main
relay has contacts that control both those actions.

Perhaps get a repair manual (Haynes, etc) for your car, just so you
can identify the major components by yourself - I say that because you
mentioned you don't know anything about cars.
It is hard for us to help you without you being able to do that as it
would be like describing the color red to a blind person. We could for
instance tell you where the main relay is located, but you'd never
find it by us describing it.

Let us know what happens.
Remco

"Rattus the RAT" <rats_and_guns_n_rosesREMOVE-THIS@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:<302jmtF2rhlgpU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> "remcow" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:RIUmd.13538$hc5.6431133@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> > Sure it could be the starter but then it could be many things - you have
> to
> > be a little more specific.
> > What does it do when you turn the key to start? What do you hear and what
> > does the car do?
>
> well I had main relays problem before due to hot weather and sun but that
> was not the case today. I stopped somewhere to buy a few things and when I
> tried to restarted it, it kinda started but stopped immediately, tried
> again, no luck, tried again and tried to give some gas when it was kinda
> starting just after I turned the key, no luck. it took like 20-30 minutes
> before I could start it. the "turning the key" feeling seemed different than
> usual.
>
> RAT

Since the subject has been brought up: Can an ignition switch be wearing out
but only exhibit symptoms on occasion, or do they typically go out all at
once? This happened to me about a week ago (every time I let the key go the
motor died), but hasn't done it since.

Dee wrote:
> Since the subject has been brought up: Can an ignition switch be wearing out
> but only exhibit symptoms on occasion,

I should think so. One of the problems that affect electrical contacts
is that they slowly become carbonized (or is it oxidized?) from the
spark that occurs when they first join to complete a circuit,
particularly where grease has been applied--just think of what happens
to your iron skillet when you pour fry oil out of it and some runs down
the side, then gets completely burned on the next time you use it if you
forget to wipe it off thoroughly. The initial spark of connecting
contacts is hot and does the same thing over a long period. I'm pretty
sure that the last ignition switch I saw was greased (not Honda), as
would be expected.

Depending on how you turn and release the key, more or less spark can
result. More spark, and for longer, results in quicker
carbonization/oxidation and/or contact damage. The
carbonization/oxidation eventually builds up to the point where
sufficient electrical contact to power the circuit can no longer be
made--the resistance is too great. However, there can easily be a period
of time leading up to permanent failure when the contact can still be
made sufficiently to operate the circuit, despite intermittent failure.
For example, when the contact jiggles a little--the parts of the contact
which are dirtier sometimes make contact, resulting in failure, while
when the cleaner portions connect the circuit works (in this case, the
engine runs).

Hope that made sense--I'm no electrical engineer and may have the
terminology wrong, but I've seen and worked with lots of electrical
contacts.

Thank you VERY much for your detailed reply. It's been starting fine since
then, but the past couple days I detected the smell of gasoline when I come
to a stop after a highway drive, so a tune-up and thorough checkup is in
order. I'm sure I'll be replacing the ignition switch, too; it's not that
expensive a part. Thanks again.




> I should think so. One of the problems that affect electrical contacts
> is that they slowly become carbonized (or is it oxidized?) from the
> spark that occurs when they first join to complete a circuit,
> particularly where grease has been applied--just think of what happens
> to your iron skillet when you pour fry oil out of it and some runs down
> the side, then gets completely burned on the next time you use it if you
> forget to wipe it off thoroughly. The initial spark of connecting
> contacts is hot and does the same thing over a long period. I'm pretty
> sure that the last ignition switch I saw was greased (not Honda), as
> would be expected.
>
> Depending on how you turn and release the key, more or less spark can
> result. More spark, and for longer, results in quicker
> carbonization/oxidation and/or contact damage. The
> carbonization/oxidation eventually builds up to the point where
> sufficient electrical contact to power the circuit can no longer be
> made--the resistance is too great. However, there can easily be a period
> of time leading up to permanent failure when the contact can still be
> made sufficiently to operate the circuit, despite intermittent failure.
> For example, when the contact jiggles a little--the parts of the contact
> which are dirtier sometimes make contact, resulting in failure, while
> when the cleaner portions connect the circuit works (in this case, the
> engine runs).
>
> Hope that made sense--I'm no electrical engineer and may have the
> terminology wrong, but I've seen and worked with lots of electrical
> contacts.

Dee wrote:
> Thank you VERY much for your detailed reply. It's been starting fine since
> then, but the past couple days I detected the smell of gasoline when I come
> to a stop after a highway drive, so a tune-up and thorough checkup is in
> order. I'm sure I'll be replacing the ignition switch, too; it's not that
> expensive a part. Thanks again.

What year is the car? It's possible that the engine dying upon releasing
the key could be related to something else, especially if it's been
working fine since. I merely meant to observe that intermittent failure
is a possibility with an ignition switch, not to confirm that your
ignition switch is failing. You may want to start with the tuneup first
to see how that turns out.

I don't like to replace things until it's really necessary, and as I'm
relatively new to Hondas I'd hate to see you spend money you don't have
to, based on my comments. On the other hand, if you really can't afford
to get stuck, the car is an older model, and you're sure that the engine
dying upon releasing the key wasn't merely flooding, replacing it could
be preventive medicine.

Hopefully others will chime in with their experience.