Honda Car Forum

My wifes Honda won't start when it's been sitting for 6 hours or so.
I hesitate to call it cold, as we live in South Florida and it does
this when it's 95 degrees out, but it technically is a 'cold start'
issue.

So here is what I've done. Attache a FI pressure test guage. As soon
as I turn the key the guage reads about 38psi, perfect per the manual.
It maintains pressure when I crank, and I can hear the injectors
clicking through a screwdriver.

So the FI system seems good.

So my next guess is that its ignition. So I hooked my inductive
timing light to #2 plug and zip-tied the trigger so it would stay on.
When I crank the engine the timing light does not blink at ALL. After
I've cranked it 7 or 8 times (for about 4 seconds at a time) I will
start to get a blink from the timing light right after I release the
key! Once it starts doing this, it will start within the next couple
of trys, but it still only sparks when the key is released from the
start position to the run position. Once the engine starts I get a
consistant and non-wobbly spark indicated by the light. I did the
same test with the same results using an inline spark tester.

The book (I think I have a chiltons) has some ignition tests for me to
go through, which I will do tomorrow morning, but I'd really just like
to get this darn thing fixed. Anyone have any idea what this problem
is?

Alan

"Alan Russell" <kartdude99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f85e759d.0410270259.7813b470@posting.google.c om...
> My wifes Honda won't start when it's been sitting for 6 hours or so.
> I hesitate to call it cold, as we live in South Florida and it does
> this when it's 95 degrees out, but it technically is a 'cold start'
> issue.
>
> So here is what I've done. Attache a FI pressure test guage. As soon
> as I turn the key the guage reads about 38psi, perfect per the manual.
> It maintains pressure when I crank, and I can hear the injectors
> clicking through a screwdriver.
>
> So the FI system seems good.
>
> So my next guess is that its ignition. So I hooked my inductive
> timing light to #2 plug and zip-tied the trigger so it would stay on.
> When I crank the engine the timing light does not blink at ALL. After
> I've cranked it 7 or 8 times (for about 4 seconds at a time) I will
> start to get a blink from the timing light right after I release the
> key! Once it starts doing this, it will start within the next couple
> of trys, but it still only sparks when the key is released from the
> start position to the run position. Once the engine starts I get a
> consistant and non-wobbly spark indicated by the light. I did the
> same test with the same results using an inline spark tester.
>
> The book (I think I have a chiltons) has some ignition tests for me to
> go through, which I will do tomorrow morning, but I'd really just like
> to get this darn thing fixed. Anyone have any idea what this problem
> is?

Alan,

I've had this! See the PGM-FI article in Miscellanea section of my
website.


--
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kartdude99@yahoo.com (Alan Russell) wrote in message news:<f85e759d.0410270259.7813b470@posting.google. com>...
> My wifes Honda won't start when it's been sitting for 6 hours or so.
> I hesitate to call it cold, as we live in South Florida and it does
> this when it's 95 degrees out, but it technically is a 'cold start'
> issue.
>
> So here is what I've done. Attache a FI pressure test guage. As soon
> as I turn the key the guage reads about 38psi, perfect per the manual.
> It maintains pressure when I crank, and I can hear the injectors
> clicking through a screwdriver.
>
> So the FI system seems good.
>
> So my next guess is that its ignition. So I hooked my inductive
> timing light to #2 plug and zip-tied the trigger so it would stay on.
> When I crank the engine the timing light does not blink at ALL. After
> I've cranked it 7 or 8 times (for about 4 seconds at a time) I will
> start to get a blink from the timing light right after I release the
> key! Once it starts doing this, it will start within the next couple
> of trys, but it still only sparks when the key is released from the
> start position to the run position. Once the engine starts I get a
> consistant and non-wobbly spark indicated by the light. I did the
> same test with the same results using an inline spark tester.
>
> The book (I think I have a chiltons) has some ignition tests for me to
> go through, which I will do tomorrow morning, but I'd really just like
> to get this darn thing fixed. Anyone have any idea what this problem
> is?
>
> Alan


Alan,

I am having a similar problem with my 2000 Civic LX. I have replaced
the cap, rotar, and coil on the ingnition system. I replaced the
wires and plugs about 30K ago with Bosch platnum series plugs and
performance wires.
I have also replaced the fuel filter and had all the belts replaced
including water pump, as it has 118K on it. The problem still exists.
I notice a performance problem when accelerating from a stop. The
engine seems to be starved.
I took it over to the Honda dealership and had them put it on the
diagnostic machine, but the only code was an evap code because I had
lost the gas cap a while back. The gas cap had been replaced 40K ago.
They said they saw there were arc marks on the coil, that is why I had
it replaced. They did find that the exhaust manifold was cracked in
the middle, which is common, but I do not believe this is causing the
problem as no gasses appear to escap in enough quantity to cause a
back pressure problem. You can check for a crack by taking out the
two bolts on the top of the exhaust manifold heat shield.
My plan was to go over and buy some new wires and see if they are
somehow causing a shorting problem. Perhaps some cheap champion plugs
as a test too.

Regards,

Jeff

Alan Russell <kartdude99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> When I crank the engine the timing light does not blink at ALL. After
> I've cranked it 7 or 8 times (for about 4 seconds at a time) I will
> start to get a blink from the timing light right after I release the

Sounds like a bad ignition switch.
There's a "start" terminal on the switch, and IG1, and IG2.
IG1 is supposed to be connected in the start or run position, and IG2 in
the run position only.
You aren't getting spark in the start position, but you are in the run
position. Usually it is the other way, with no spark in "run", so it
starts, and dies as soon as you let go of the key, but I suppose it could
fail either way.
There are also some relays involved in Honda Ignitions, so one of those
might be bad. You can check the ignition switch wiring with a test light.

---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

In our shop we find out where the power goes in to the coil, if that is
good, we replace the distributor as a unit. It takes care of other potential
problems in the future. All parts to control the fuel pulse and spark are in
the distributor.
Steve



"Alan Russell" <kartdude99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f85e759d.0410270259.7813b470@posting.google.c om...
> My wifes Honda won't start when it's been sitting for 6 hours or so.
> I hesitate to call it cold, as we live in South Florida and it does
> this when it's 95 degrees out, but it technically is a 'cold start'
> issue.
>
> So here is what I've done. Attache a FI pressure test guage. As soon
> as I turn the key the guage reads about 38psi, perfect per the manual.
> It maintains pressure when I crank, and I can hear the injectors
> clicking through a screwdriver.
>
> So the FI system seems good.
>
> So my next guess is that its ignition. So I hooked my inductive
> timing light to #2 plug and zip-tied the trigger so it would stay on.
> When I crank the engine the timing light does not blink at ALL. After
> I've cranked it 7 or 8 times (for about 4 seconds at a time) I will
> start to get a blink from the timing light right after I release the
> key! Once it starts doing this, it will start within the next couple
> of trys, but it still only sparks when the key is released from the
> start position to the run position. Once the engine starts I get a
> consistant and non-wobbly spark indicated by the light. I did the
> same test with the same results using an inline spark tester.
>
> The book (I think I have a chiltons) has some ignition tests for me to
> go through, which I will do tomorrow morning, but I'd really just like
> to get this darn thing fixed. Anyone have any idea what this problem
> is?
>
> Alan

"Steve" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<03_fd.35766$OD2.4965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> In our shop we find out where the power goes in to the coil, if that is
> good, we replace the distributor as a unit. It takes care of other potential
> problems in the future. All parts to control the fuel pulse and spark are in
> the distributor.
> Steve
>
>
>
> "Alan Russell" <kartdude99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:f85e759d.0410270259.7813b470@posting.google.c om...
> > My wifes Honda won't start when it's been sitting for 6 hours or so.
> > I hesitate to call it cold, as we live in South Florida and it does
> > this when it's 95 degrees out, but it technically is a 'cold start'
> > issue.
> >
> > So here is what I've done. Attache a FI pressure test guage. As soon
> > as I turn the key the guage reads about 38psi, perfect per the manual.
> > It maintains pressure when I crank, and I can hear the injectors
> > clicking through a screwdriver.
> >
> > So the FI system seems good.
> >
> > So my next guess is that its ignition. So I hooked my inductive
> > timing light to #2 plug and zip-tied the trigger so it would stay on.
> > When I crank the engine the timing light does not blink at ALL. After
> > I've cranked it 7 or 8 times (for about 4 seconds at a time) I will
> > start to get a blink from the timing light right after I release the
> > key! Once it starts doing this, it will start within the next couple
> > of trys, but it still only sparks when the key is released from the
> > start position to the run position. Once the engine starts I get a
> > consistant and non-wobbly spark indicated by the light. I did the
> > same test with the same results using an inline spark tester.
> >
> > The book (I think I have a chiltons) has some ignition tests for me to
> > go through, which I will do tomorrow morning, but I'd really just like
> > to get this darn thing fixed. Anyone have any idea what this problem
> > is?
> >
> > Alan

Alan,

As a follow up... I did what I said I was going to do yesterday and
replaced my spark plugs. What an amazing difference. I noticed arc
marks on the insulator of my number 1 plug. NOt that this will fix
your problem, but spark plugs were cheap.

So far I am convinced that Honda builds crap.

The car has new plugs, wires, cap, rotor and such about 5k ago.

According to the ignition tests I've done, I do not seem to get a
spark signal from the ECU. I guess it could be the crank angle sensor
not telling the ECU to send a spark, or the ECU is crap. Maybe it is
a rely, but my sevice book doesn't seem to delve into them very well.

I hate this damn car. I married into it. Her next car will be a
Mazda!

Well I did the testing on the ignition module that I found at:
http://techauto.tripod.com/s.htm

I was not getting a signal on the wire from the ECU to the ignitor. I
traced the wire to the ECU and verified continuity.

So the problem at this point, near as I could tell, was ECU or Crank
Angle Sensor.

So I went to the junkyard and got a replacement distributor. It cost
$160. It made everything work, I think.

That leads me to belive it was the CAS, but I can not find any way to
test it other than to ohm it out (it ohms fine).

Anyway, that's the way it is.

"Alan Russell" <kartdude99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> My wifes Honda won't start when it's been sitting for 6 hours or so.
> I hesitate to call it cold, as we live in South Florida and it does
> this when it's 95 degrees out, but it technically is a 'cold start'
> issue.

Sorry to hear about your car problem. My friend had bought a new 2000 Civic,
and it had starting problems. Since it was so new, he was able to get
another replacement car from the dealership. Unfortunately, your problem did
not occur until after warranty expired. The lesson I learned is never again
will I buy a first-year model.


--
Disclaimer: This post is solely an individual opinion and does not speak on
behalf of any organization.

DC wrote:

> "Alan Russell" <kartdude99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>>My wifes Honda won't start when it's been sitting for 6 hours or so.
>>I hesitate to call it cold, as we live in South Florida and it does
>>this when it's 95 degrees out, but it technically is a 'cold start'
>>issue.
>
>
> Sorry to hear about your car problem. My friend had bought a new 2000 Civic,
> and it had starting problems. Since it was so new, he was able to get
> another replacement car from the dealership. Unfortunately, your problem did
> not occur until after warranty expired. The lesson I learned is never again
> will I buy a first-year model.
>
>

wasnt the 2000 models the last of the previous generation? aka 96-00?

the only problem ive had with my 98 civic was an O2 sensor, and i got a
new one at the dealer. its still too "new" to me to be putting
aftermarket stuff on.

i could have gone with an online OEM dealer, but didnt want to wait. was
it worth the additional $100 to have it same day and install it myself
in 10mins? dunno.

i didnt want to drive it the way it was, since the MIL was on, and it
was stalling at stop signs.

total cost for the unscheduled repair? about $350. $250 for the sensor,
$100 for the actron scantool. so that brings me up to $50/yr average for
unscheduled repairs! glad i dint go with an extended warranty, ya know?