Honda Car Forum

Hello,

I am going to replace both the driveshafts in my 1991 Civic Si with 133k
miles. I am getting prepped for the job in terms of tools, parts, and
knowledge and have come across a few things where I could use some
advice and reassurance. I have done some googling of RAMH and have
figured out a lot of basics and I have a Helm manual.

I can get Cardone shafts for $67.00 a piece at a local shop and am
planning on going with them. They seem like a reputable remanufacturer.
I can also get Wolverine brand shafts ordered for $90 a piece.

I bought a Craftsmen 5-ton puller, part # 46905 for the ball joints. I
also bought a couple 12mm nuts and some grade 8 flat washers to protect
the studs when I try to use the puller. I am going to put the washers
between the 12mm nut and the stud where the sharp point from puller will
apply pressure. Is that sharp point going to punch into the washer
before the joint gives? I have seen the posts about hammer whacking and
applying heat and will have those tools in my arsenal.

I noticed a 2nd error in my helm manual. They say to use a 36mm or 1
7/16 in. socket for the spindle nuts but I figured out that they are
actually 32mm (the other error I've noticed is a spec. for the Ig. coil).

I noticed that one of the lower ball joint boots on my car has about a
1/2 inch tear. My Helm manual has a lower ball joint replacement
procedure, but I am curious as to how hard it would be to put a new boot
on. The manual makes it seem like special tools will come in handy, but
may not be really necessary. I am thinking maybe I should let it slide
and stuff some grease in, with the idea that I could replace the joint
in the future if it goes bad. What kind of grease is suitable for ball
joints? Are replacement ball joints expensive? Do boot kits come with
new clips? This is where I am really wondering what the best strategy
is. The engine and tranny seem really solid in this car and I'd like to
take it to 200k.

Much thanks for any help or advice,

Mark

Chopface wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am going to replace both the driveshafts in my 1991 Civic Si with 133k
> miles. I am getting prepped for the job in terms of tools, parts, and
> knowledge and have come across a few things where I could use some
> advice and reassurance. I have done some googling of RAMH and have
> figured out a lot of basics and I have a Helm manual.
>
> I can get Cardone shafts for $67.00 a piece at a local shop and am
> planning on going with them. They seem like a reputable remanufacturer.
> I can also get Wolverine brand shafts ordered for $90 a piece.
>
> I bought a Craftsmen 5-ton puller, part # 46905 for the ball joints. I
> also bought a couple 12mm nuts and some grade 8 flat washers to protect
> the studs when I try to use the puller. I am going to put the washers
> between the 12mm nut and the stud where the sharp point from puller will
> apply pressure. Is that sharp point going to punch into the washer
> before the joint gives? I have seen the posts about hammer whacking and
> applying heat and will have those tools in my arsenal.
>
> I noticed a 2nd error in my helm manual. They say to use a 36mm or 1
> 7/16 in. socket for the spindle nuts but I figured out that they are
> actually 32mm (the other error I've noticed is a spec. for the Ig. coil).
>
> I noticed that one of the lower ball joint boots on my car has about a
> 1/2 inch tear. My Helm manual has a lower ball joint replacement
> procedure, but I am curious as to how hard it would be to put a new boot
> on. The manual makes it seem like special tools will come in handy, but
> may not be really necessary. I am thinking maybe I should let it slide
> and stuff some grease in, with the idea that I could replace the joint
> in the future if it goes bad. What kind of grease is suitable for ball
> joints? Are replacement ball joints expensive? Do boot kits come with
> new clips? This is where I am really wondering what the best strategy
> is. The engine and tranny seem really solid in this car and I'd like to
> take it to 200k.
>
> Much thanks for any help or advice,
>
> Mark
++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm doing the shafts on a CRV in a few weeks, so I bought this cool ball
joint / tie rod end separator, made by SPX / OTC

http://www.toolsource.com/ost/produc...E7TBA2ECUJ9DC7

Good tools are expensive, but worth every penny. Don't use a 'pickle
fork style. They are for destroying the grease boots on the joints.

'Curly'

Chopface wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am going to replace both the driveshafts in my 1991 Civic Si with 133k
> miles. I am getting prepped for the job in terms of tools, parts, and
> knowledge and have come across a few things where I could use some
> advice and reassurance. I have done some googling of RAMH and have
> figured out a lot of basics and I have a Helm manual.
>
> I can get Cardone shafts for $67.00 a piece at a local shop and am
> planning on going with them. They seem like a reputable remanufacturer.
> I can also get Wolverine brand shafts ordered for $90 a piece.

i think gkn are often sold as honda replacement oem.

>
> I bought a Craftsmen 5-ton puller, part # 46905 for the ball joints. I
> also bought a couple 12mm nuts and some grade 8 flat washers to protect
> the studs when I try to use the puller. I am going to put the washers
> between the 12mm nut and the stud where the sharp point from puller will
> apply pressure. Is that sharp point going to punch into the washer
> before the joint gives? I have seen the posts about hammer whacking and
> applying heat and will have those tools in my arsenal.

all this sounds expensive if it goes wrong - and that puller is going to
be a real sob to not keep slipping off. by far the best investment
you'll ever make in diy honda maint is the proper tool. get the one
identified in the later helm manuals - much superior to the type shown
in your edition. it looks like this:
http://www.stahlwille.com/automotive_tools.htm
fourth down. or get the stahlwille version. it's cheap compared to
having a shop do it for you or the frustration of finding you need it
later after the first tool doesn't work.

>
> I noticed a 2nd error in my helm manual. They say to use a 36mm or 1
> 7/16 in. socket for the spindle nuts but I figured out that they are
> actually 32mm (the other error I've noticed is a spec. for the Ig. coil).

yep, 32.

>
> I noticed that one of the lower ball joint boots on my car has about a
> 1/2 inch tear.

why not just replace the boot? $10.

> My Helm manual has a lower ball joint replacement
> procedure, but I am curious as to how hard it would be to put a new boot
> on. The manual makes it seem like special tools will come in handy, but
> may not be really necessary. I am thinking maybe I should let it slide
> and stuff some grease in, with the idea that I could replace the joint
> in the future if it goes bad. What kind of grease is suitable for ball
> joints?

moly

> Are replacement ball joints expensive?

$44

> Do boot kits come with
> new clips?

yes

> This is where I am really wondering what the best strategy
> is. The engine and tranny seem really solid in this car and I'd like to
> take it to 200k.

keep it running. i have an 89 and a 2000. the 89's much more
comfortable and handles much better. bigger windows & better visibility
too.

>
> Much thanks for any help or advice,
>
> Mark

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:35:46 -0500, Chopface
<thename_is_slick@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I bought a Craftsmen 5-ton puller, part # 46905 for the ball joints. I
>also bought a couple 12mm nuts and some grade 8 flat washers to protect
>the studs when I try to use the puller. I am going to put the washers
>between the 12mm nut and the stud where the sharp point from puller will
> apply pressure. Is that sharp point going to punch into the washer
>before the joint gives?

I didn't use any washers. Yes the point punches in, but that's
necessary to keep it from slipping off. Using washers would defeat
that. The only puller I could find didn't have that cone-shaped deal
to keep the jaws from coming open. Since the ears on the lower arm
casting aren't level, I had to keep the jaws of the puller closed with
a large C clamp to prevent them slipping off.

>I noticed a 2nd error in my helm manual. They say to use a 36mm or 1
>7/16 in. socket for the spindle nuts but I figured out that they are
>actually 32mm (the other error I've noticed is a spec. for the Ig. coil).

I used a 1 1/4 inch socket. I had a half-inch drive one in my toolbox
but it couldn't hack it. I bought a 3/4 inch drive one to do the job
and my 3/4 inch tommybar now has a kink in the end of it from being
extended by a 2 foot length of pipe.

You are also going to need some sort of oil squirt rig to refill the
gearbox since the fill hole is way up under the floorboards. I bought
a kid's super-soaker and extended the nozzle with a length of plastic
tubing.

John Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote:
> I used a 1 1/4 inch socket. I had a half-inch drive one in my toolbox

You have: 32 mm
You want: 1.2598425 inch

Close enough ;-)

> You are also going to need some sort of oil squirt rig to refill the
> gearbox since the fill hole is way up under the floorboards. I bought
> a kid's super-soaker and extended the nozzle with a length of plastic
> tubing.

What's wrong with the little pump sold by Valvoline that screws right onto
the gear oil bottle? $3.99. Mine is probably 15 years old.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?E2F445A59

I make sure the oil has either been sitting in hot water or in the sun for
a while to make it easier to pump.



--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

jim beam wrote:
> Chopface wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am going to replace both the driveshafts in my 1991 Civic Si with
>> 133k miles. I am getting prepped for the job in terms of tools, parts,
>> and knowledge and have come across a few things where I could use some
>> advice and reassurance. I have done some googling of RAMH and have
>> figured out a lot of basics and I have a Helm manual.
>>
>> I can get Cardone shafts for $67.00 a piece at a local shop and am
>> planning on going with them. They seem like a reputable
>> remanufacturer. I can also get Wolverine brand shafts ordered for $90
>> a piece.
>
>
> i think gkn are often sold as honda replacement oem.
>
>>
>> I bought a Craftsmen 5-ton puller, part # 46905 for the ball joints. I
>> also bought a couple 12mm nuts and some grade 8 flat washers to
>> protect the studs when I try to use the puller. I am going to put the
>> washers between the 12mm nut and the stud where the sharp point from
>> puller will apply pressure. Is that sharp point going to punch into
>> the washer before the joint gives? I have seen the posts about hammer
>> whacking and applying heat and will have those tools in my arsenal.
>
>
> all this sounds expensive if it goes wrong - and that puller is going to
> be a real sob to not keep slipping off. by far the best investment
> you'll ever make in diy honda maint is the proper tool. get the one
> identified in the later helm manuals - much superior to the type shown
> in your edition. it looks like this:
> http://www.stahlwille.com/automotive_tools.htm
> fourth down. or get the stahlwille version. it's cheap compared to
> having a shop do it for you or the frustration of finding you need it
> later after the first tool doesn't work.
>
>>
>> I noticed a 2nd error in my helm manual. They say to use a 36mm or 1
>> 7/16 in. socket for the spindle nuts but I figured out that they are
>> actually 32mm (the other error I've noticed is a spec. for the Ig. coil).
>
>
> yep, 32.
>
>>
>> I noticed that one of the lower ball joint boots on my car has about a
>> 1/2 inch tear.
>
>
> why not just replace the boot? $10.

Is that a dealer only part? I checked my usual store and they only had
universal boots without any fasteners.

>> My Helm manual has a lower ball joint replacement procedure, but I am
>> curious as to how hard it would be to put a new boot on. The manual
>> makes it seem like special tools will come in handy, but may not be
>> really necessary. I am thinking maybe I should let it slide and stuff
>> some grease in, with the idea that I could replace the joint in the
>> future if it goes bad. What kind of grease is suitable for ball joints?
>
>
> moly

Where can this be found? Some stores don't have a clue what I'm talking
about. I do explain to them that its molybdenum disulfide, MoS2

>> Are replacement ball joints expensive?
>
>
> $44
>
>> Do boot kits come with new clips?
>
>
> yes
>
> > This is where I am really wondering what the best strategy
>
>> is. The engine and tranny seem really solid in this car and I'd like
>> to take it to 200k.
>
>
> keep it running. i have an 89 and a 2000. the 89's much more
> comfortable and handles much better. bigger windows & better visibility
> too.
>
>>
>> Much thanks for any help or advice,
>>
>> Mark

I picked up the Cardone axles today and the splines and boots look
really good. I guess I'll see how well the joints actually hold up. One
thing that bothered me about them is that the rubber harmonic balancers
are absent on the remanufactured axles. Some googling turned up that VW
used balancers on some of their older cars and if you get VW parts for
those cars they don't have the balancer anymore. There were also some
antecdotal experiences of people cutting them off when they got loose
and not noticeing ill effects.

"Chopface" <thename_is_slick@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:citb8g$c3r$1@news.doit.wisc.edu...
> dold@XReXXQuest.usenet.us.com wrote:
>> John Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote:
>>
>>>I used a 1 1/4 inch socket. I had a half-inch drive one in my toolbox
>>
>>
>> You have: 32 mm
>> You want: 1.2598425 inch Close enough ;-)
>>
>>
>>>You are also going to need some sort of oil squirt rig to refill the
>>>gearbox since the fill hole is way up under the floorboards. I bought
>>>a kid's super-soaker and extended the nozzle with a length of plastic
>>>tubing.
>>
>>
>> What's wrong with the little pump sold by Valvoline that screws right
>> onto
>> the gear oil bottle? $3.99. Mine is probably 15 years old.
>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?E2F445A59
>>
>> I make sure the oil has either been sitting in hot water or in the sun
>> for
>> a while to make it easier to pump.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I actually just use a funnel jammed into some plastic tubing that is
> routed down through the engine compartment into the filler hole. It takes
> a while for the oil to move its way in, but it works for me.

Hrm. Like mine?
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...&threadid=4582

dold@XReXXQuest.usenet.us.com wrote:
> John Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote:
>
>>I used a 1 1/4 inch socket. I had a half-inch drive one in my toolbox
>
>
> You have: 32 mm
> You want: 1.2598425 inch
>
> Close enough ;-)
>
>
>>You are also going to need some sort of oil squirt rig to refill the
>>gearbox since the fill hole is way up under the floorboards. I bought
>>a kid's super-soaker and extended the nozzle with a length of plastic
>>tubing.
>
>
> What's wrong with the little pump sold by Valvoline that screws right onto
> the gear oil bottle? $3.99. Mine is probably 15 years old.
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?E2F445A59
>
> I make sure the oil has either been sitting in hot water or in the sun for
> a while to make it easier to pump.
>
>
>

I actually just use a funnel jammed into some plastic tubing that is
routed down through the engine compartment into the filler hole. It
takes a while for the oil to move its way in, but it works for me.

Chopface <thename_is_slick@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I actually just use a funnel jammed into some plastic tubing that is
> routed down through the engine compartment into the filler hole. It
> takes a while for the oil to move its way in, but it works for me.

I tried that once. A chunk of garden hose and a funnel.
I didn't preheat the oil. It just sat there. I went inside, came back
out, it was still sitting there.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

I was looking at the remanufactured shafts I picked up today and made a
worrysome discovery. The comparable ends of the left and right shafts
inner/inner and outer/outer look similair at first, but I noticed some
differences and wonder if this is normal. I guess I was expecting
symmetry between the left and the right shaft when matching up the inner
and outer joints.

The differences (distances measured with a string):

Outer Ends (wheel): The circumference of the largest diameter part of
the end(the surface that the end of the boot is clipped to) is smaller
on the left shaft(the longer one) than the right shaft(the shorter one).
The circumference and length of the smallest diameter (with the splines)
surfaces are the same.

Inner Ends (tranny): The surface with the splines before it jumps to
larger diameter of the left shaft is longer, lengthwise in the direction
of the shaft, than the right shaft. The indented circle grooves on the
big surface perpendicular (extending radially) to the lengthwise
orientation of the shaft are different among the shafts. The
circumference of the largest diameter part of the end is the same among
the two shafts. Also, the raised and lowered uneveness on the largest
diameter part of the end extends all the way out to where the shaft
starts tapering on the left shaft. The uneveness on the right shaft ends
before the tapering begins and you have a small section where it is a
perfect circle.

Is this a Honda design or did I get a mismatched set of shafts? I double
checked the part #'s on the boxes and compared them to the application
guide at http://www.cardone.com/English/club/...cat/sbyapp.asp

Kind of confused, as you may be after trying to understand my description,

Mark