Honda Car Forum

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 06:08:17 +0000 (UTC), dold@XReXXFacto.usenet.us.com
wrote:

>Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
>> I don't think there is much to worry about. The hybrid Accord is
>> unlike any other hybrid.
>
>It is exactly like the other Honda hybrids, and unlike the Toyota and Ford
>Hybrids.

I stand corrected. I thought the Civic and Insight were like the
Prius. An even stronger argument for not being concerned about the
technology.

>> adds a very thin electric motor between the engine and transmission to
>> assist the gasoline engine when it is called for (IMA). It's only
>> 15 horsepower.
>
>The Honda Civic and Honda Insight have the tiny electric motor
>IMA sandwich. It's 13HP in the Civic. I think it's 10 in the Insight.

It's now 13.4 in the Civic, and 13 or 14 in the Insight depending on
the transmission. Interesting that, even with the engine running all
the time, the Insight now has the best EPA mileage of all the hybrids
at 66 mpg.

Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
> the transmission. Interesting that, even with the engine running all
> the time, the Insight now has the best EPA mileage of all the hybrids
> at 66 mpg.

The Insight is almost unusably tiny.

The Toyota Prius is most efficient in moving pounds in the EPA Highway test.
The Honda Insight weighs 1850 pounds 66mpg 3.56l/100km 519lbs/l/100km
My Civic Hybrid weighs 2732 pounds 48mpg 4.89l/100km 558lbs/l/100km
A Toyota Prius weighs 2890 pounds 51mpg 4.60l/100km 628lbs/l/100km
My Escape Hybrid weighs 3839 pounds 29mpg 8.10l/100km 473lbs/l/100km

I don't know if the Prius/Escape engines shut off during the EPA highway
test. I find that the Escape shuts off coming downhill at freeway speeds.

EPA City:
The Honda Insight weighs 1850 pounds 60mpg 3.91l/100km 473lbs/l/100km
My Civic Hybrid weighs 2732 pounds 47mpg 5.00l/100km 546lbs/l/100km
A Toyota Prius weighs 2890 pounds 60mpg 3.91l/100km 739lbs/l/100km
My Escape Hybrid weighs 3839 pounds 33mpg 7.12l/100km 539lbs/l/100km

Here, the Prius really shows off the electric-only mode.
I read that the California "AT-PZEV" test had to be respecified to avoid
the Prius doing the entire 10 mile loop without starting the engine.

The "full Hybrid phase two" will probably become available after the
hybrids are accepted by mainstream America. Currently, one of the hot
features is that you never plug in a hybrid. The next generation will have
much larger batteries and an electric-only range that will be augmented by
starting the gas engine much later than the current designs. Some of the
phase 2 engines would only run for a few seconds on initial startup every
day, and then the engines would shut down, not to be used again during the
day unless the batteries were depleted before the nightly recharge from the
wall.


--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

I trust the engine mod to be reliable. In fact, I'll bet every VTEC V6
Honda makes will adopt this pretty quickly.

Now, the real question, besides cost, is, do you want a Honda that:
has worse handling (possibly a revised front-end setup as well as
electric power steering); two cubic feet less trunk space (it was
already too small); a seatback that doesn't lay down; two (2!) a/c
compressors to fail instead of one (the smaller one is electric); a
cute little spoiler; that's really fast off the line? IMHO, the
trade-off is not worth it at less than $4.00 a gallon or so.

JM

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:41:55 +0000 (UTC), dold@XReXXFacto.usenet.us.com
wrote:

>Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
>> the transmission. Interesting that, even with the engine running all
>> the time, the Insight now has the best EPA mileage of all the hybrids
>> at 66 mpg.
>
>The Insight is almost unusably tiny.

Apparently, you have not seen the Smart fortwo built by Daimler
Chrysler in Europe. By comparison, the Insight is a limo.

Dick wrote:
> It's now 13.4 in the Civic, and 13 or 14 in the Insight depending on
> the transmission. Interesting that, even with the engine running all
> the time, the Insight now has the best EPA mileage of all the hybrids
> at 66 mpg.

the insight is more of a "purpose-built" testbed than id say the prius
is. 2 seat, high psi skinny tires, full-on aero styling. likely a
lighter curb weight too.

In article <dtnjt054tkg78pt542ma04qj1htmajq6ki@4ax.com>, Dick
<LeadWinger> says...
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:41:55 +0000 (UTC), dold@XReXXFacto.usenet.us.com
> wrote:
>
> >Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
> >> the transmission. Interesting that, even with the engine running all
> >> the time, the Insight now has the best EPA mileage of all the hybrids
> >> at 66 mpg.
> >
> >The Insight is almost unusably tiny.
>
> Apparently, you have not seen the Smart fortwo built by Daimler
> Chrysler in Europe. By comparison, the Insight is a limo.


...and until they're willing to crash test it, you'll never see one in
the USA...

--Gene

Gene S. Berkowitz wrote:
>>>The Insight is almost unusably tiny.
>>
>>Apparently, you have not seen the Smart fortwo built by Daimler
>>Chrysler in Europe. By comparison, the Insight is a limo.
>
>
>
> ..and until they're willing to crash test it, you'll never see one in
> the USA...

and they will crash test it. and itll pass. from what ive read, its
incredibly strong, like youre riding in a steel cage.