Honda Car Forum

Caroline wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
>
>>bottom line, since honda & nhtsa have sent out their maintenance
>>directives, and those that have followed them have not had any problems,
>>then there's not an issue.
>
>
> 1) I'd need to see an official report on this.

they were referenced back when this topic first surfaced a few months ago.

>
> 2) Are there *special* steps that are now necessary when changing the oil in
> this particular model of car?

i guess different folks have different ideas, but personally, i wouldn't
call checking the gasket and mopping spillage "special". honda directed
techs to simply make sure they actually follow existing procedure.

> If so, this is a sufficiently big deal that I
> still see no fear-mongering. How certain are you that all techs. now know about
> this, hm?

well, i'm not certain, but how do we know someone's not putting 5w-30
into their automatic transmission? that's my argument. there has to be
a point at which someone has responsibility for reading the book.

> People are right to be concerned. Until further notice, I think it's entirely
> fair to call this a safety issue about which owners should be aware.

we'll have to agree to disagree. i think there are much bigger fish to
fry than trying to prevent retards from behaving naturally. i nominate
manufacturers selling vehicles they /know/ to be rollover hazards for
starters.

Caroline here is the summary from the NHSTA site:

Make: HONDA
Model: CR-V
Year: 2003
NHTSA Action Number: PE04018
Summary:
THIS INVESTIGATION IDENTIFIED 32 INCIDENTS OF OIL FILTER
LEAKAGE IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLE POPULATION, WITH 22 RESULTING IN VEHICLE
FIRES. ALL OF THE INCIDENTS OCCURRED FOLLOWING OIL CHANGES. HONDA'S
INVESTIGATION OF 14 OF THE FIRE INCIDENTS DETERMINED THAT "FIVE OIL FILTERS
HAD STACKED SEALS (DOUBLE-GASKETING), AND NINE OIL FILTERS HAD DISTORTED OR
PINCHED SEALS." ACCORDING TO HONDA, BOTH CONDITIONS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO
FOLLOW NECESSARY REPAIR PROCEDURES. STACKED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE OF THE
SERVICE TECHNICIAN TO REMOVE THE OLD SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLING THE NEW FILTER
AND SEAL. DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO PROPERLY
LUBRICATE THE NEW SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. OIL LEAKAGE FROM A STACKED,
DISTORTED, OR PINCHED SEAL CAN BE IGNITED BY HEAT FROM THE EXHAUST SYSTEM,
WHICH IS LOCATED NEAR THE OIL FILTER IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES. HONDA WILL
ISSUE COMMUNICATIONS TO ITS DEALERS WARNING OF THE NECESSITY TO FOLLOW
CORRECT PROCEDURES WHEN REPLACING OIL FILTERS IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES AND OF
THE POTENTIAL FOR VEHICLE FIRES TO RESULT FROM IMPROPER REPAIRS. ODI WILL
CONTINUE TO MONITOR THE ALLEGED DEFECT IN MY 2003 AND LATER CR-V VEHICLES.
THIS INVESTIGATION IS CLOSED. THE CLOSING OF THIS INVESTIGATION DOES NOT
CONSTITUTE A FINDING BY NHTSA THAT NO SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT EXISTS. THE
AGENCY WILL TAKE FURTHER ACTION IF WARRANTED BY THE CIRCUMSTANCES.











"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:_L41d.24413$Wv5.2172@newsread3.news.atl.earth link.net...
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
>> bottom line, since honda & nhtsa have sent out their maintenance
>> directives, and those that have followed them have not had any problems,
>> then there's not an issue.
>
> 1) I'd need to see an official report on this.
>
> 2) Are there *special* steps that are now necessary when changing the oil
> in
> this particular model of car? If so, this is a sufficiently big deal that
> I
> still see no fear-mongering. How certain are you that all techs. now know
> about
> this, hm?
>
> People are right to be concerned. Until further notice, I think it's
> entirely
> fair to call this a safety issue about which owners should be aware.
>
>

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> example: left hand wheel nuts on cars are theoretically dangerous
> because they have a tendency to loosen. but, if technicians do what
> they're told and tighten to the correct torque, then we almost never see
> a wheel drop off a car. this is a deliberately contentious example:
> have you /ever/ seen anyone question manufacturers lack of willingness
> to use left handed threads on cars like they do on big rigs, even though
> it would be safer? and i'll bet you the number of fatalities each year
> for light vehicle wheel separation vastly exceeds the number of driveway
> fires from crv's.

Chrysler products used to have left hand thread on left side wheels.
I think they stopped because of the number of tire gorillas who either
broke or overstressed the studs trying to "loosen" them.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

dold@XReXXMoreX.usenet.us.com wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
>>example: left hand wheel nuts on cars are theoretically dangerous
>>because they have a tendency to loosen. but, if technicians do what
>>they're told and tighten to the correct torque, then we almost never see
>>a wheel drop off a car. this is a deliberately contentious example:
>>have you /ever/ seen anyone question manufacturers lack of willingness
>>to use left handed threads on cars like they do on big rigs, even though
>>it would be safer? and i'll bet you the number of fatalities each year
>>for light vehicle wheel separation vastly exceeds the number of driveway
>>fires from crv's.
>
>
> Chrysler products used to have left hand thread on left side wheels.
> I think they stopped because of the number of tire gorillas who either
> broke or overstressed the studs trying to "loosen" them.
>

i've seen the gorilla thing more than once. even when each single stud
has "L" & "R" stamped into the end of it, some folks still don't get it.
makes me wonder how they ever learned the difference between brake & gas.

dold@XReXXMoreX.usenet.us.com wrote:
>
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
> > example: left hand wheel nuts on cars are theoretically dangerous
> > because they have a tendency to loosen. but, if technicians do what
> > they're told and tighten to the correct torque, then we almost never see
> > a wheel drop off a car. this is a deliberately contentious example:
> > have you /ever/ seen anyone question manufacturers lack of willingness
> > to use left handed threads on cars like they do on big rigs, even though
> > it would be safer? and i'll bet you the number of fatalities each year
> > for light vehicle wheel separation vastly exceeds the number of driveway
> > fires from crv's.
>
> Chrysler products used to have left hand thread on left side wheels.
> I think they stopped because of the number of tire gorillas who either
> broke or overstressed the studs trying to "loosen" them.
>
>

Many manufacturers used left hand threads on the left side of the car
for wheels. All my Studebakers 1956 and older have this feature. And
you are probably right regarding the tire monkeys failing to see the "L"
on each left hand stud...

Idiots are nothing new but now there are just a lot more of 'em!




--
JT

Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4

jim beam wrote:
>
> dold@XReXXMoreX.usenet.us.com wrote:
> > jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>example: left hand wheel nuts on cars are theoretically dangerous
> >>because they have a tendency to loosen. but, if technicians do what
> >>they're told and tighten to the correct torque, then we almost never see
> >>a wheel drop off a car. this is a deliberately contentious example:
> >>have you /ever/ seen anyone question manufacturers lack of willingness
> >>to use left handed threads on cars like they do on big rigs, even though
> >>it would be safer? and i'll bet you the number of fatalities each year
> >>for light vehicle wheel separation vastly exceeds the number of driveway
> >>fires from crv's.
> >
> >
> > Chrysler products used to have left hand thread on left side wheels.
> > I think they stopped because of the number of tire gorillas who either
> > broke or overstressed the studs trying to "loosen" them.
> >
>
> i've seen the gorilla thing more than once. even when each single stud
> has "L" & "R" stamped into the end of it, some folks still don't get it.
> makes me wonder how they ever learned the difference between brake & gas.



Another thing that gets my goat is the use of impact wrenches to tighten
lug nuts. I always specify "hand tighten" only.


--
JT

Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4

caroline10027remove@earthlink.net (Caroline) wrote:

>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net>
>>wrote
>>"growing issue"??? the only thing that's
>>"growing" is the amount of hot air
>>generated on this group. or your
>>susceptibility to fearmongering. read
>>the stats.

>I for one see no "fear mongering." The
>stats speak for themselves: Unless
>these fires are happening at the same
>rate with other vehicles, there is
>legitimate cause for concern.

Exactly! If I were researching the current CRV model and ran across a
factoid that 69 of them had caught fire, I'd be looking at the
competiton or another model Honda that isn't catching fire.

Same with the Crown Vic....me no like kablooey...

Can't you read?

"ACCORDING TO HONDA, BOTH CONDITIONS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO
FOLLOW NECESSARY REPAIR PROCEDURES. STACKED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE OF
THE SERVICE TECHNICIAN TO REMOVE THE OLD SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLING THE NEW
FILTER AND SEAL. DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO PROPERLY
LUBRICATE THE NEW SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. OIL LEAKAGE FROM A STACKED,"

It's still the Tech messing up. The tech. doesn't check for the gasket on
the old filter. Also the tech isn't lubricating the new seal. What they
mean by lubricate the seal is just rub a thin layer of new oil onto the seal
of the new filter before installing it.

Plus if the JOB was done CORRECTLY by THE TECH then oil WILL NOT leak from
the filter.

Chris

In article <Dlx0d.167808$Fg5.165216@attbi_s53>, mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com
says...

>wouldnt this be, maybe, possibly... a crappy fram designed oil filter
>problem? possibly a badly glued rubber band ring, instead of an o-ring?
>id be in the supplier's ass about it.

I used 'crappy' fram filters for all 110k miles I owned my Omni GLH-T and
I never had any problems. The gaskets always came off with the filter. Of
course I always changed my own oil and I always made sure to put a small amount
of oil on the gasket before I installed it.
----------------
Alex

In article <DJL0d.378400$M95.84317@pd7tw1no>,
Nino.NoSpam@unsubscribenews@shaw.ca says...
>
>
>Listen, I am not an idiot! If you read the NHSTA report you will find that
>some filtrers had distorted or pinched seals, so it's not only a stacked
>seal problem!

Pinched and/or distorted probably means a filter that was put on too tight.
I always hand tighten my filter. That way I won't need a wrench to remove
it. This method has worked for me on many cars for many hundreds of thousands
of miles.

>Secondly, fires also occured at Honda dealers who used
>original Honda filters! Furthermore, why isn't this happening in the
>earlier year CR-Vs?

The filter brand probably has nothing to do with the problem. It is the
tech changing the oil that is the problem.

>Why can't Honda simply put some kind of barrier between
>the oil pan and the exhaust to prevent further problems?

This is a valid point.


>In most vehicles,
>the worst that can happen is oil on your driveway, not a fire! What is
>peace of mind worth? No who's the idiot--Sean?

The idiot is the one who can't properly change the oil filter.
----------------
Alex