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Old 09 Aug 2004, 12:26 pm
Tony Muller
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Default Relay or Fuel Pump or ??!

HI All - new here, and I've learned a LOT by reading back articles for a
few days; thanks! I've got a problem with a '90 Civic Wagon AWD.

Symptoms - the car would not start when 'warm', and this started a
couple of months ago, as the temps started to climb here in SoCal. It
would run fine, then... after a quick stop, would refuse to start. I'd
wait a few minutes, and almost always, it would re-start and run fine. I
_never_ had any problems once the car was running - ran smooth, no
'missing', etc. SOMEtimes, the car would "try" to start - fire, and
vroom up for a split second, then die. But woyld then "really_ start
after a few minutes of waiting (cooling?)

The other day, I did a quick errand, came out to start the car, and all
it did was crank and crank... wouldn't start. THIS time, even after
_several_ attemps, I had to call for a ride. Of course, the car failed
AWAY from home (but only a mile or two) Still, I'm getting VERY tired of
going back and forth, diagnosing and 'testing' various theories!

After reading lots of great info (thanks!!) I assumed the Main Relay.
Finally found the sucker and took it out. Resoldered and tested the
relay per instructions in a Haynes manual, and it tests fine. All
switches seem to swith, as tested w/12V and continuity meter.

Plugged the relay back into the car - no go. Cranks like crazy, but will
NOT start/run.

So, I turn to the fuel pump. PREVIOUSLY, I _thought_ I could hear it
whirring. Now, it doesn't seem to 'whirr' when the key is turned on-??
Also, prior to this , there WAS the starting issue, but nothing else.

Questions for you Gurus and more experienced mechanics -

*Can the Main Relay "test" OK, but still not work?

*How often do Fuel Pumps fail & do I _really_ need to remove the tank
to get at it??

Can the fuel pump fail 'intermittenly'? (seems like it would either
work, or NOT work... this is - or was 'til the other day! - an
intermitten problem.

*Could it be the Coil? There IS spark at the plugs, but I read
somewhere this isn't fool-proof.

So... do I buy a new Main Relay (I'd rather NOT spend the $60 -
especially if I don't need to!) Do I replace the fuel pump? Help!! :-)

If I can't get this fixed soon, I ned to tow the sucker home to keep
diagnosing and testing... I fell like I'm close, but I'm hoping for some
wisdom & advice! :-)

Thanks,
Tony

PS - If you don't mind, please send replies as e-mail AND posts to the
ng.. remember to remove spam blocker - thanks!

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Old 09 Aug 2004, 02:59 pm
John Ings
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Default Re: Relay or Fuel Pump or ??!

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 17:26:32 GMT, Tony Muller
<tonymullerREMOVE@earthlink.net> wrote:


If the fuel pump is not whirring and you have a meter, check for 12
volts back at the fuel pump. That needs two people usually, since the
voltage will only be there for a second or two while the ignition
switch is turned. There are usually a pair of disconnects near it just
ahead of the left rear wheel-- one for it's power, and one for the
gound. Those can get corroded. Could even be a loose fuse. Do you know
how to twist the tang on a fuse a bit so it makes better contact? A
bad ground on the fuel pump is also a possibility. Such ground
connections are often a rediculously long way from the pump itself.

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Old 09 Aug 2004, 06:40 pm
Tony Muller
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Relay or Fuel Pump or ??!

In article <kblfh095r9khmtudq4d56mrfm326lno1d9@4ax.com>,
John Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 17:26:32 GMT, Tony Muller
> <tonymullerREMOVE@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> If the fuel pump is not whirring and you have a meter, check for 12
> volts back at the fuel pump. That needs two people usually, since the
> voltage will only be there for a second or two while the ignition
> switch is turned. There are usually a pair of disconnects near it just
> ahead of the left rear wheel-- one for it's power, and one for the
> gound. Those can get corroded. Could even be a loose fuse. Do you know
> how to twist the tang on a fuse a bit so it makes better contact? A
> bad ground on the fuel pump is also a possibility. Such ground
> connections are often a rediculously long way from the pump itself.
>


Thanks! I finally had the car towed back 'home'. It died a mile or two
from home, and I've been traveling back & forth trying to fix the darned
thing. Of course, each trip I was missing a tool, guage, or SOMEthing.
Now that it's here, where I have an "assistant", I can do some more
thorough checking.

Does anyone know if a relay can test OK out of the car, and NOT work IN
the car? And is the following test conclusive? Heres what I did -

12V to #4, Ground to #8 - got continuity between 5 & 7
12V to #5, Ground to #2 - got continuity between 1 & 3
12V to #3, Ground to #8 - got continuity between 5 & 7

Thanks for all the help & keep any suggestions coming! Once this is
done, I'll be sure to post a final re-cap and solution.

Tony

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