Honda Car Forum

I saw my in-law's bill for their 30,000 mile service on their new 2002
Civic. The price wasn't a problem, $356, until what I saw what they
did/didn't do! Turns out that they now don't adjust the valve lash unless
it is making "excessive noise" and the car has "special" spark plugs that
don't need to be replaced as often, so they didn't do that. SO, all they
did other than change the oil and drain/refill the tranny fluid was to
replace the air filter and replace the hepa filter for the interior
ventilation. I was also not pleased to see that they charged $3.50/qt for
motor oil, $10 for the oil filter, and $3.00 for the crush washer. (to name
just a few prices). It just seems excessive labor wise. Basically $103.95
in parts and $221 in labor..

I called the dealer and gave them a chance to save face by couching it in
terms of "maybe they made a mistake on the invoice. They offered some lame
excuse about "forgetting to credit them the plugs and gasket" so they gave
them a $57 credit. Well, those items were not on the bill!!! The
credability of that dealership went down a few notches in MY book!

Oh, and they made a big deal about a "no charge" Hand Wash Exterior, Vacuum
Interior, Clean 918 Uniseal the car...

I wonder if they just saw these 70 year old folks drive in and figured it
would be an easy mark!
Thoughts?
--
KWW

Yes it is a rip off anymore to get any mileage interval major services like
that. The reasons are because of what you stated. Some of the
responsibility lies with the people that own the car. The owner's manual
specifically states what has to be done at what mileage. The dealership
goes above and beyond that and not to the aid of the customer but to the aid
of the dealer.

Being ignorant as to how a car works or what needs to be done really is no
excuse and it invites the removal of money from your wallet. You can either
request specific services and price them accordingly at the dealer or do the
same thing at a reputable local shop.

The crush washers are normally 15 cents..USA, $7 oil filter from Honda.
The oil I don't know because I pay $4 a quart for Mobil 1 synthetic.

The only thing that has to be done on my g/f's 2004 accord till 100,000
miles is oil change, filter replacements, tire rotations and checks here and
there. The trans isn't scheduled to be drained until after 100k, same with
plugs, no t-belt to change.


The cars today just don't require the upkeep yesterdays car needed. I would
obviously put the 02 down as a new car.

They shouldn't have made a big deal about the car wash thing because it was
no charge, so it wasn't like they were doing you a favor since it was free
anyway. If it was a chargeable item and they gave it to you for free then I
would give them a little credit but not much

"KWW" <kwalker@nospamaircooled.net> wrote in message
news:eDpRc.249374$JR4.7648@attbi_s54...
> I saw my in-law's bill for their 30,000 mile service on their new 2002
> Civic. The price wasn't a problem, $356, until what I saw what they
> did/didn't do! Turns out that they now don't adjust the valve lash unless
> it is making "excessive noise" and the car has "special" spark plugs that
> don't need to be replaced as often, so they didn't do that. SO, all they
> did other than change the oil and drain/refill the tranny fluid was to
> replace the air filter and replace the hepa filter for the interior
> ventilation. I was also not pleased to see that they charged $3.50/qt for
> motor oil, $10 for the oil filter, and $3.00 for the crush washer. (to
name
> just a few prices). It just seems excessive labor wise. Basically
$103.95
> in parts and $221 in labor..
>
> I called the dealer and gave them a chance to save face by couching it in
> terms of "maybe they made a mistake on the invoice. They offered some
lame
> excuse about "forgetting to credit them the plugs and gasket" so they gave
> them a $57 credit. Well, those items were not on the bill!!! The
> credability of that dealership went down a few notches in MY book!
>
> Oh, and they made a big deal about a "no charge" Hand Wash Exterior,
Vacuum
> Interior, Clean 918 Uniseal the car...
>
> I wonder if they just saw these 70 year old folks drive in and figured it
> would be an easy mark!
> Thoughts?
> --
> KWW
>
>

"KWW" <kwalker@nospamaircooled.net> wrote
> I saw my in-law's bill for their 30,000 mile service on their new 2002
> Civic. The price wasn't a problem, $356, until what I saw what they
> did/didn't do! Turns out that they now don't adjust the valve lash unless
> it is making "excessive noise" and the car has "special" spark plugs that
> don't need to be replaced as often, so they didn't do that. SO, all they
> did other than change the oil and drain/refill the tranny fluid was to
> replace the air filter and replace the hepa filter for the interior
> ventilation. I was also not pleased to see that they charged $3.50/qt for
> motor oil, $10 for the oil filter, and $3.00 for the crush washer. (to name
> just a few prices). It just seems excessive labor wise. Basically $103.95
> in parts and $221 in labor..
>
> I called the dealer and gave them a chance to save face by couching it in
> terms of "maybe they made a mistake on the invoice. They offered some lame
> excuse about "forgetting to credit them the plugs and gasket" so they gave
> them a $57 credit. Well, those items were not on the bill!!! The
> credability of that dealership went down a few notches in MY book!
>
> Oh, and they made a big deal about a "no charge" Hand Wash Exterior, Vacuum
> Interior, Clean 918 Uniseal the car...
>
> I wonder if they just saw these 70 year old folks drive in and figured it
> would be an easy mark!
> Thoughts?


In my experience, dealerships definitely target the naive. I don't know how much
it takes to replace the interior HEPA filter, but I'm betting this dealership is
preying on its customers big time.

That $3 for a crush washer is too stupid. I've paid 25 cents each at one dealer
and been handed a handful for free at another dealer, whom I'd never used in my
life before.

Get to know the maintenance schedule in your owner's manual. Strongly consider
locating an import independent shop in your area, preferably specialized in
Hondas. Have them use only OEM parts, and try to confirm, where possible, that
they indeed use OEM parts. Start having routine maintenance done there, checking
carefully with the maintenance schedule. When they suggest something that you
don't understand, consider double checking here.

In my experience building trust is more important to independent shops than it
is to dealer shops.

In article <mHuRc.13226$cK.6737@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink. net>,
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I don't know how much
> it takes to replace the interior HEPA filter, but I'm betting this dealership
> is
> preying on its customers big time.

Honda made a very stupid design decision here; it's an hour labor plus
$30 or so in filters.

If you can do it yourself, get the $11 in after market filters and go
for it.

> I wonder if they just saw these 70 year old folks drive in and figured it
> would be an easy mark!

ripoff. i charge my mom parts only, when i do work for her i might
pad the parts cost a *Bit* or add a soda to the bill if its a really hot
day. im a merciless bastard.

I personally do all that stuff on my cars. Did the timing/balance
belts/waterpump the other day on '93 Accord (bought used) and did the brakes
on wife's '97 Ody. But I don't know that I want to get in the habbit of
also doing my in-law's maintenance. (I already maint. 5 cars of my own.)

--
KWW

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-82DEC7.17142108082004@text.usenetserver.com...
> In article <mHuRc.13226$cK.6737@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink. net>,
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I don't know how much
> > it takes to replace the interior HEPA filter, but I'm betting this
dealership
> > is
> > preying on its customers big time.
>
> Honda made a very stupid design decision here; it's an hour labor plus
> $30 or so in filters.
>
> If you can do it yourself, get the $11 in after market filters and go
> for it.
>

$356 is about the price for a Type-4 Maintenance package at my Honda
Dealership. However, in addition to the stuff that you've mentioned, it
also includes a brake service (which includes bleeding). However, when
servicing the brakes, labor is included, but parts are extra. The last
time I had the Type-4 maintenance done to my 98 Hatch, they did a really
great job with the brakes. I complained about the fact that the front
wheels where locking up too quickly while in the wet. After the service,
that problem went away. They also wanted to replace my front rotor
because it was getting thin and had some scuff marks. I told them to
leave it alone...those rotors are now on their third set of pads (talk
about pushing limit...).

Pars
98 DX Hatch

KWW wrote:
>
> I saw my in-law's bill for their 30,000 mile service on their new 2002
> Civic. The price wasn't a problem, $356, until what I saw what they
> did/didn't do! Turns out that they now don't adjust the valve lash unless
> it is making "excessive noise" and the car has "special" spark plugs that
> don't need to be replaced as often, so they didn't do that. SO, all they
> did other than change the oil and drain/refill the tranny fluid was to
> replace the air filter and replace the hepa filter for the interior
> ventilation. I was also not pleased to see that they charged $3.50/qt for
> motor oil, $10 for the oil filter, and $3.00 for the crush washer. (to name
> just a few prices). It just seems excessive labor wise. Basically $103.95
> in parts and $221 in labor..
>
> I called the dealer and gave them a chance to save face by couching it in
> terms of "maybe they made a mistake on the invoice. They offered some lame
> excuse about "forgetting to credit them the plugs and gasket" so they gave
> them a $57 credit. Well, those items were not on the bill!!! The
> credability of that dealership went down a few notches in MY book!
>
> Oh, and they made a big deal about a "no charge" Hand Wash Exterior, Vacuum
> Interior, Clean 918 Uniseal the car...
>
> I wonder if they just saw these 70 year old folks drive in and figured it
> would be an easy mark!
> Thoughts?
> --
> KWW

Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
> In article <mHuRc.13226$cK.6737@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink. net>,
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> I don't know how much
>> it takes to replace the interior HEPA filter, but I'm betting this dealership
>> is
>> preying on its customers big time.

> Honda made a very stupid design decision here; it's an hour labor plus
> $30 or so in filters.

The HEPA filter in my 2003 Civic was $130 as an optional item at the 30,000
mile service, which I elected not to do. Later in the day, they called to
say two tires should be replaced, and my HEPA filters were dirty. I said
no to both... If the filter is an hour's labor to replace, what do they
charge for taking it out to look at it and putting the dirty one back in?
Not much. It might take five minutes total on the Civic, and that includes
emptying the glove compartment. I've taken them out and knocked the bugs
off a couple of times. I don't know how much the filter costs as a part.

The other prices are what they are. You can have service done at the
dealer. Many people feel more comfortable that way. You can also ask for
the individual required items to be done, instead of taking the package
that seems to include several things that look important but mean almost
nothing. The dealers will do the ala carte even though adding up all of
the items on the 30,000 mile service doesn't come up to the price of the
30,000 package deal. You might have to do the "safety check" on the
windshield wiper blades yourself, though.

Lots of new cars have 100,000 mile spark plugs. On my Mustang, neither the
dealer nor Goodyear wanted to replace them prior to 100,000.

Crush washers are one of the handy high markup items that it is hard to
argue with, especially if the manufacturer says they should be replaced.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

<dold@2002XCivic.usenet.us.com> wrote
snip
> Crush washers are one of the handy high markup items that it is hard to
> argue with,

I wonder what you would consider not a handy high markup item.

The guy should bring the Majestic online auto parts sheet to the dealer. The
list price shown there is 27 cents, with Majestic selling them for 19 cents.
These washers are readily available. Customers are witnessing a 1000% markup.

It's easy to argue with. It should be questioned, at a minimum, to see what is
going on at this shop.

Maybe before questioning these criminals call a few other dealers and ask what
the parts department charges, which I suspect will be one heckuva lot closer to
the Majestic prices I give above. Take that info to the meeting.

The markup for the motor oil and oil filter seem much more typical and tolerable
for a dealer.

Of course, the original poster's posting this info here will go a long way by
itself to "educating" consumers and so reducing this kind of robbery.

> especially if the manufacturer says they should be replaced.

Yup, they should be replaced, along with the oil and filter. So what. It's
probably the most common maintenance any shop does.

I suggest taking a very close look at what *any* minor/major service
entails. If they don't list it by line item, ask for the list.

Most of what you'll see is "inspect" a *huge* variety of things. As we
all know, "inspect" means, "look at fluid levels...look at a/c
window...look at brake pad wear...dipstick oil and tranny fluid and look
at level, remove a few bolts and look at air filter..."

The problem is, I have a suspicion that if you try to "cheat" the dealer
out of their fee for these "services" by trying to a la carte them
("just do the valves and replace the brake fluid...I'll do the rest")
they'll be resentful and "get" you somehow. Sure, some won't...but I'd
bet the majority will be irritated.

..02