Honda Car Forum

Dear experts,

I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
He said these oil protects older engine better.
The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
else. Is the technician right?

Thanks,
Eugene

On 8/4/04 4:43 PM, in article 2PcQc.49$vV.129@news.oracle.com, "eh"
<eh@nospam.com> wrote:

> Dear experts,
>
> I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
> I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
> The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
> or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
> He said these oil protects older engine better.
> The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
> else. Is the technician right?
>
> Thanks,
> Eugene
>
>

At 80K? No, he is wrong.

He obviously doesn't know what he is talking about. I am sure the 1968 Ford
pickup truck that this mechanic drives could benefit from this thinking but
not your car





"eh" <eh@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2PcQc.49$vV.129@news.oracle.com...
> Dear experts,
>
> I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
> I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
> The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
> or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
> He said these oil protects older engine better.
> The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
> else. Is the technician right?
>
> Thanks,
> Eugene
>
>

If the car is losing oil (over a litre per oil change) and it's summer,
switching to 10-30 on an older car may be a wise move. However, I'd
switch back to 5-30 for the winter.

Pars

eh wrote:
>
> Dear experts,
>
> I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
> I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
> The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
> or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
> He said these oil protects older engine better.
> The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
> else. Is the technician right?
>
> Thanks,
> Eugene

eh wrote:

> Dear experts,
>
> I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
> I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
> The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
> or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
> He said these oil protects older engine better.
> The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
> else. Is the technician right?

if its burning a quart ever thousand miles, it wouldnt hurt to switch to
a 20w50.
>
> Thanks,
> Eugene
>
>

SoCalMike wrote:
>
>
> eh wrote:
>
>> Dear experts,
>>
>> I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
>> I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
>> The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
>> or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
>> He said these oil protects older engine better.
>> The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
>> else. Is the technician right?
>
>
> if its burning a quart ever thousand miles, it wouldnt hurt to switch to
> a 20w50.

I'd start slowly - 10W-40 or maybe 15W-40 - and then only if it's
really consuming 5W-30.

However - at that much mileage, maybe a 10W-30 "high mileage" oil
might be a better idea.

On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:43:09 -0700, "eh" <eh@nospam.com> wrote:

>Dear experts,
>
>I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
>I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
>The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
>or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
>He said these oil protects older engine better.
>The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
>else. Is the technician right?

The 5W-30 should be OK. If you live where the temps never get below 20F
then 10W-30 is specified by Honda, in the service manual, as OK for a '98
Accord. Personally in warmish temps I'd prefer the 10W-30.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:43:09 -0700, "eh" <eh@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Dear experts,
>>
>>I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
>>I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
>>The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
>>or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
>>He said these oil protects older engine better.
>>The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
>>else. Is the technician right?
>
>
> The 5W-30 should be OK. If you live where the temps never get below 20F
> then 10W-30 is specified by Honda, in the service manual, as OK for a '98
> Accord. Personally in warmish temps I'd prefer the 10W-30.
>

iirc, i think the second figure is the one to worry about at higher
temps, not the first, so you'd want 5-40 or 5-50 at high temps. the
first # is relative viscosity when cold. but even then, if the oil is
thicker, for a close tolerance engine like a honda, it will only result
in more gas consumption because of energy wasted churning thicker oil.
as long as the oil films are not breaking down, they're fine. that's
why transmissions with "thin" a.t.f. can perform just as well as
transmissions with "thick" gear oil.

i have relatives in las vegas and regularly drive over to see them.
even in the height of summer, with the temperature nice & toasty, and on
all those long multi-mile full-throttle hills, my civic with 5-30 shows
zero signs of stress. gas consumption is measurably better with 5-30
vs. 10-30 too. fact is, 5-30 is a better oil - it has to be to support
the wider viscosity range.

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:10:08 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>George Macdonald wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:43:09 -0700, "eh" <eh@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dear experts,
>>>
>>>I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
>>>I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
>>>The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
>>>or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
>>>He said these oil protects older engine better.
>>>The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
>>>else. Is the technician right?
>>
>>
>> The 5W-30 should be OK. If you live where the temps never get below 20F
>> then 10W-30 is specified by Honda, in the service manual, as OK for a '98
>> Accord. Personally in warmish temps I'd prefer the 10W-30.
>>
>
>iirc, i think the second figure is the one to worry about at higher
>temps, not the first, so you'd want 5-40 or 5-50 at high temps.

It depends on the oil basestock. A 5W-30 is basically a basestock with a
"natural" range of say 5W-15 for a petro-base with additive to extend its
VI so that you get a 5W-30; an equivalent for 10W-30 would be a basestock
with 10W-22 or so extended to 10W-30. As the VI improver wears out you're
left wth an oil which is getting closer and closer to the basestock value.

As an example, before the current situation with synthetics, which have a
wider natural VI than petro-base, a 10W-30 could be obtained with a PAO
basestock and absolutely no VI improver at all; a 5W-30 synthetic still
required some VI improver to get there. The VI improver doesn't suddenly
disappear one day - it wears out gradually (cheaper ones wear out quicker).
I'd rather have an oil which has less, or no, VI improver which will retain
its basic characteristics over the oil change cycle.

> the
>first # is relative viscosity when cold. but even then, if the oil is
>thicker, for a close tolerance engine like a honda, it will only result
>in more gas consumption because of energy wasted churning thicker oil.
>as long as the oil films are not breaking down, they're fine. that's
>why transmissions with "thin" a.t.f. can perform just as well as
>transmissions with "thick" gear oil.

The "waste" of energy due to churning between a SAE 5W-30 and 10W-30 is
negligible -- barely measureable -- and any savings easily cancelled out,
over a tank of gas, by a couple of stop-light accelerations. As for ATF,
metals/alloys are chosen according to the lubrication available and
auto-trans do seem to have a lower reliability.

>i have relatives in las vegas and regularly drive over to see them.
>even in the height of summer, with the temperature nice & toasty, and on
>all those long multi-mile full-throttle hills, my civic with 5-30 shows
>zero signs of stress. gas consumption is measurably better with 5-30
>vs. 10-30 too. fact is, 5-30 is a better oil - it has to be to support
>the wider viscosity range.

See above for which is the better oil. From my POV if you don't need the
5W for your climate, why use it? Like anything else there's no "one size
fits all".

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:10:08 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
>>George Macdonald wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:43:09 -0700, "eh" <eh@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dear experts,
>>>>
>>>>I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week
>>>>I went an independent deader to get my oil changed.
>>>>The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30
>>>>or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it.
>>>>He said these oil protects older engine better.
>>>>The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing
>>>>else. Is the technician right?
>>>
>>>
>>>The 5W-30 should be OK. If you live where the temps never get below 20F
>>>then 10W-30 is specified by Honda, in the service manual, as OK for a '98
>>>Accord. Personally in warmish temps I'd prefer the 10W-30.
>>>
>>
>>iirc, i think the second figure is the one to worry about at higher
>>temps, not the first, so you'd want 5-40 or 5-50 at high temps.
>
>
> It depends on the oil basestock. A 5W-30 is basically a basestock with a
> "natural" range of say 5W-15 for a petro-base with additive to extend its
> VI so that you get a 5W-30; an equivalent for 10W-30 would be a basestock
> with 10W-22 or so extended to 10W-30. As the VI improver wears out you're
> left wth an oil which is getting closer and closer to the basestock value.

rheology is not my thing, but i thought "natural" oil base stock
behavior was "thick" when cold, "thin" when hot. the way i understand
it, a rating like "5w-30" implies a thinner oil when cold and thicker
when hot, an "unnatural" phenomenon only viscosity index improvers can
impart. if that's not correct, what's the deal on this and how does it
work?

>
> As an example, before the current situation with synthetics, which have a
> wider natural VI than petro-base, a 10W-30 could be obtained with a PAO
> basestock and absolutely no VI improver at all; a 5W-30 synthetic still
> required some VI improver to get there. The VI improver doesn't suddenly
> disappear one day - it wears out gradually (cheaper ones wear out quicker).
> I'd rather have an oil which has less, or no, VI improver which will retain
> its basic characteristics over the oil change cycle.
>
>
>> the
>>first # is relative viscosity when cold. but even then, if the oil is
>>thicker, for a close tolerance engine like a honda, it will only result
>>in more gas consumption because of energy wasted churning thicker oil.
>>as long as the oil films are not breaking down, they're fine. that's
>>why transmissions with "thin" a.t.f. can perform just as well as
>>transmissions with "thick" gear oil.
>
>
> The "waste" of energy due to churning between a SAE 5W-30 and 10W-30 is
> negligible -- barely measureable -- and any savings easily cancelled out,
> over a tank of gas, by a couple of stop-light accelerations.

i'm only going on experience with my civic. it's typically 2-3% better
economy with 5w-30 than with 10w-30. this is measured on multiple 600
mile runs to las vegas over the course of 5 years.

> As for ATF,
> metals/alloys are chosen according to the lubrication available and
> auto-trans do seem to have a lower reliability.

automatic transmissions "fail" because of clutches or valves, etc,
components stick boxes don't have, but in terms of actual gear wear?
no, they're real evenly matched.

>
>
>>i have relatives in las vegas and regularly drive over to see them.
>>even in the height of summer, with the temperature nice & toasty, and on
>>all those long multi-mile full-throttle hills, my civic with 5-30 shows
>>zero signs of stress. gas consumption is measurably better with 5-30
>>vs. 10-30 too. fact is, 5-30 is a better oil - it has to be to support
>>the wider viscosity range.
>
>
> See above for which is the better oil. From my POV if you don't need the
> 5W for your climate, why use it? Like anything else there's no "one size
> fits all".

cos it's higher quality but costs the same money, so why /not/ use it?

>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??