Honda Car Forum

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 03:52:07 -0400, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:13:39 GMT, gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com (Gordon
>McGrew) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:12:20 +0100, "James Austin"
>><givememychoice@CABBAGEyahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>>news:nsednV7Vld9on2ndRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>> let's get this straight: some troll spams unsubstantiated drivel on a
>>>> newsgroup based on unconfirmable reports alledging a total of 27 vehicles
>>>> burning - apparently due to filter/exhaust proximity - a feature that is
>>>> the norm for a vast majority of modern fwd's - and you're buying this
>>>> story? 27 vs. the thousands of fords, gm's & chryslers that burn every
>>>> day?
>>>>
>>>> hey, i have some used buffalo fodder i can sell you too. want to buy
>>>> some?
>>>>
>>>> this is nothing but an astroturf campaign. get wise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Actually, Honda themselves have admitted problems with about 164 vehicles if
>>>i recall. However the problem is with the mechanics doing the oil change.
>>>Maybe it is a bit trickier to do than on other vehicles. But, if you are a
>>>trained mechanic, an oil change shouldnt be too difficult.
>>
>>Something funny is going on though. My Integras (86 and 94) have the
>>filter right over the exhaust virtually guaranteeing that any leaked
>>or spilled oil will smoke off. I assume Civics are similar. Why are
>>only new CRVs being singled out? Is the filter nearer to the cylinder
>>end of the manifold thus increasing temperature? Or something else?
>
>On the K-series engine the exhaust manifold is on the back of the engine
>and I believe the filter is on the right (looking forward) rear of the
>engine - dunno where the catalytic converter is located but it's possible
>it takes catalytic converter contact to actually ignite the oil, since even
>exhaust heat is marginal for actual ignition of engine oil.
>
>There was also a story from some link here that there was a suspicion that
>the factory filter had not been installed with sufficient lubricant on the
>seal, causing the old seal to stick to the mating surface.
>
>IMO this stacked and pinched seals is just *bloody* sloppy mechanics - who
>here has not run their finger around the oil filter mating surface on every
>oil change to clean and check it? I've done dozens of filter changes on
>Hondas and pinched seals is simply due to overtightening or insufficient
>lubrication of the seal.
>
>Rgds, George Macdonald
>
>"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

If it is spraying on the cat, that would certainly explain why it is
more likely to burn than cars where it hits a pipe. The sticky gasket
could certainly be contributing but this doesn't sound good to me.
Errors in maintenance can happen. I'm surprised that Honda wouldn't
be designing a shield for this. Maybe they are.

From the article that someone else posted, the incidence of the CRV
fires is down sharply from last year (5 YTD vs. 22 in 2003 with a lot
more of this model on the road this year.) Could be due to better
assembly at the plant or increased care by the mechanics. If the
latter, there is a risk that fires could increase when these vehicles
start being serviced by non-dealer mechanics.

Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 03:52:07 -0400, George Macdonald
> <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:13:39 GMT, gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com (Gordon
>>McGrew) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:12:20 +0100, "James Austin"
>>><givememychoice@CABBAGEyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:nsednV7Vld9on2ndRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>>let's get this straight: some troll spams unsubstantiated drivel on a
>>>>>newsgroup based on unconfirmable reports alledging a total of 27 vehicles
>>>>>burning - apparently due to filter/exhaust proximity - a feature that is
>>>>>the norm for a vast majority of modern fwd's - and you're buying this
>>>>>story? 27 vs. the thousands of fords, gm's & chryslers that burn every
>>>>>day?
>>>>>
>>>>>hey, i have some used buffalo fodder i can sell you too. want to buy
>>>>>some?
>>>>>
>>>>>this is nothing but an astroturf campaign. get wise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Actually, Honda themselves have admitted problems with about 164 vehicles if
>>>>i recall. However the problem is with the mechanics doing the oil change.
>>>>Maybe it is a bit trickier to do than on other vehicles. But, if you are a
>>>>trained mechanic, an oil change shouldnt be too difficult.
>>>
>>>Something funny is going on though. My Integras (86 and 94) have the
>>>filter right over the exhaust virtually guaranteeing that any leaked
>>>or spilled oil will smoke off. I assume Civics are similar. Why are
>>>only new CRVs being singled out? Is the filter nearer to the cylinder
>>>end of the manifold thus increasing temperature? Or something else?
>>
>>On the K-series engine the exhaust manifold is on the back of the engine
>>and I believe the filter is on the right (looking forward) rear of the
>>engine - dunno where the catalytic converter is located but it's possible
>>it takes catalytic converter contact to actually ignite the oil, since even
>>exhaust heat is marginal for actual ignition of engine oil.
>>
>>There was also a story from some link here that there was a suspicion that
>>the factory filter had not been installed with sufficient lubricant on the
>>seal, causing the old seal to stick to the mating surface.
>>
>>IMO this stacked and pinched seals is just *bloody* sloppy mechanics - who
>>here has not run their finger around the oil filter mating surface on every
>>oil change to clean and check it? I've done dozens of filter changes on
>>Hondas and pinched seals is simply due to overtightening or insufficient
>>lubrication of the seal.
>>
>>Rgds, George Macdonald
>>
>>"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
>
>
> If it is spraying on the cat, that would certainly explain why it is
> more likely to burn than cars where it hits a pipe. The sticky gasket
> could certainly be contributing but this doesn't sound good to me.
> Errors in maintenance can happen. I'm surprised that Honda wouldn't
> be designing a shield for this. Maybe they are.
>
> From the article that someone else posted, the incidence of the CRV
> fires is down sharply from last year (5 YTD vs. 22 in 2003 with a lot
> more of this model on the road this year.) Could be due to better
> assembly at the plant or increased care by the mechanics. If the
> latter, there is a risk that fires could increase when these vehicles
> start being serviced by non-dealer mechanics.

5 ytd??? non fatal??? how does this compare with accidents caused by
incorrectly torqued lug nuts? punctures caused by incorrectly inflated
tires? how about lack of washer fluid causing dirty windshields? how
about fatalities caused by distracted cell phone users? dude, get some
perspective.

jim beam wrote:
> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 03:52:07 -0400, George Macdonald
>> <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 05:13:39 GMT, gRmEcMgOrVeEw@mindspring.com (Gordon
>>> McGrew) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:12:20 +0100, "James Austin"
>>>> <givememychoice@CABBAGEyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:nsednV7Vld9on2ndRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> let's get this straight: some troll spams unsubstantiated drivel
>>>>>> on a newsgroup based on unconfirmable reports alledging a total of
>>>>>> 27 vehicles burning - apparently due to filter/exhaust proximity -
>>>>>> a feature that is the norm for a vast majority of modern fwd's -
>>>>>> and you're buying this story? 27 vs. the thousands of fords, gm's
>>>>>> & chryslers that burn every day?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hey, i have some used buffalo fodder i can sell you too. want to
>>>>>> buy some?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this is nothing but an astroturf campaign. get wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, Honda themselves have admitted problems with about 164
>>>>> vehicles if i recall. However the problem is with the mechanics
>>>>> doing the oil change. Maybe it is a bit trickier to do than on
>>>>> other vehicles. But, if you are a trained mechanic, an oil change
>>>>> shouldnt be too difficult.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Something funny is going on though. My Integras (86 and 94) have the
>>>> filter right over the exhaust virtually guaranteeing that any leaked
>>>> or spilled oil will smoke off. I assume Civics are similar. Why are
>>>> only new CRVs being singled out? Is the filter nearer to the cylinder
>>>> end of the manifold thus increasing temperature? Or something else?
>>>
>>>
>>> On the K-series engine the exhaust manifold is on the back of the engine
>>> and I believe the filter is on the right (looking forward) rear of the
>>> engine - dunno where the catalytic converter is located but it's
>>> possible
>>> it takes catalytic converter contact to actually ignite the oil,
>>> since even
>>> exhaust heat is marginal for actual ignition of engine oil.
>>>
>>> There was also a story from some link here that there was a suspicion
>>> that
>>> the factory filter had not been installed with sufficient lubricant
>>> on the
>>> seal, causing the old seal to stick to the mating surface.
>>>
>>> IMO this stacked and pinched seals is just *bloody* sloppy mechanics
>>> - who
>>> here has not run their finger around the oil filter mating surface on
>>> every
>>> oil change to clean and check it? I've done dozens of filter changes on
>>> Hondas and pinched seals is simply due to overtightening or insufficient
>>> lubrication of the seal.
>>>
>>> Rgds, George Macdonald
>>>
>>> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" -
>>> Who, me??
>>
>>
>>
>> If it is spraying on the cat, that would certainly explain why it is
>> more likely to burn than cars where it hits a pipe. The sticky gasket
>> could certainly be contributing but this doesn't sound good to me.
>> Errors in maintenance can happen. I'm surprised that Honda wouldn't
>> be designing a shield for this. Maybe they are.
>>
>> From the article that someone else posted, the incidence of the CRV
>> fires is down sharply from last year (5 YTD vs. 22 in 2003 with a lot
>> more of this model on the road this year.) Could be due to better
>> assembly at the plant or increased care by the mechanics. If the
>> latter, there is a risk that fires could increase when these vehicles
>> start being serviced by non-dealer mechanics.
>
>
> 5 ytd??? non fatal??? how does this compare with accidents caused by
> incorrectly torqued lug nuts? punctures caused by incorrectly inflated
> tires? how about lack of washer fluid causing dirty windshields? how
> about fatalities caused by distracted cell phone users? dude, get some
> perspective.
>

and another thing. my driveway is now soaked with oil because a friend
just brought his toyota over to have me look at a leak. that thing is
gushing. and guess where the oil's blowing? all over the catalyst &
exhaust! apparently they're been driving it in that condition for
nearly a year - 1 quart every 100 miles.

now, should toyota do a recall because when the main crank case seal
goes, it leaks oil that can blow onto the hot catalyst? how about the
fire risk? other than having the engine at the rear and catalyst at the
front, can you name any engine configuration where this is /not/ a
potential "problem"?

It seems all/most the cars were on fire after the first oil changes. Is it
due to the stuff Honda put in the new car mixed with oil to lubricate the
engine. The oil mixed with this stuff leaks when the first oil change was
done carelessly and the mix caught on fire ?

Hai Pham
"Andre" <ofc2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4e8c5280.0407150756.10c2efe2@posting.google.c om...
> Below is a Washington post story I took from the Web just now, I read
> a similar report on my local paper, TV carried similar stories. Again
> as I said I may be overreacting. I plan to watch my oil level
> closely, and I plan to inspect the oil filter following changes, Andre
>
> "Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:<e%ZIc.919708$Ar.409682@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com>...
> > "Andre" <ofc2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:4e8c5280.0407130704.626ae05@posting.google.co m...
> > > I called Honda 800 999-1009 after reading reports of CRVs burning and
> > > exploding;
> >
> > Exploding now, are they?
> >
> > Please post where you read this.
>
> 27 Fires Linked To Oil Changes In Honda CR-V
>
> By Greg Schneider
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Friday, July 9, 2004; Page A01
>
>
> At least 27 Honda CR-V sport-utility vehicles from the 2003 and 2004
> model years burst into flames shortly after getting their first oil
> changes, according to records provided to the federal government by
> the manufacturer.
>
>
>
> While no injuries were reported, many of the vehicles were destroyed,
> usually with 10,000 miles or fewer on their odometers.
>
> The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration investigated
> the situation and concluded July 1 that the cases were the fault of
> dealerships or others who improperly installed oil filters. The agency
> agreed with American Honda Motor Co. that oil from the filters most
> likely leaked onto the vehicles' hot exhaust systems, quickly igniting
> -- in some cases as the owners drove the small SUVs home from being
> serviced.
>
> "We consulted with Honda. Honda concluded it was a technician's error,
> and they have taken steps to make sure service technicians who work on
> this vehicle understand that they need to be particularly diligent
> when they replace the oil filter," NHTSA spokesman Rae Tyson said.
>
> But auto safety advocates say they're dismayed that the agency didn't
> take a stronger stand. "Relatively new cars catching on fire? Running
> the risk of injuring their occupants? It's a very unusual and a very
> dangerous situation," said Sally Greenberg of Consumers Union,
> publisher of Consumer Reports. The fact that a routine oil change
> could have such catastrophic results suggests "a dire and a dangerous
> situation that both the automaker and the auto safety agency should
> have looked much more closely at," she said.
>
> Honda, whose products are consistently rated among the safest
> vehicles, doesn't know why the fires are happening in only the two
> most recent CR-V models, spokesman Andy Boyd said. "That's the part
> we're still investigating. Honestly, that's something we're still
> trying to understand," he said, adding that there have been no major
> design changes.
>
> While Boyd said the problem is "absolutely not a design defect," he
> said the CR-V's engine is configured "such that there is a higher
> likelihood of oil spraying onto the manifold than . . . on other
> vehicles." Honda has no plan to recall the vehicles and install a
> barrier to block the oil from hitting the hot exhaust manifold, he
> said.
>
> "At this stage I don't believe we think a recall is warranted," Boyd
> said "We think with a little more communication and education with the
> dealers, the problem can be eliminated."
>
> About 140,000 CR-Vs were sold in the United States in 2003. Honda said
> 22 of them caught fire from the apparent oil filter problem. So far
> this year, five owners of 2004 CR-Vs have reported such fires to
> NHTSA.
>
> NHTSA's records relate the stories of drivers whose vehicles caught
> fire. Their names were blacked out. A woman driving on Braddock Road
> in Northern Virginia last January noticed smoke coming from under her
> 2003 CR-V. A passerby pulled up and told her it was on fire, so she
> swerved onto the shoulder, the electrical system shorted out and all
> the doors locked. She got out without injury.
>
> A North Carolina family driving to church one Sunday in May noticed
> smoke and had to rush to get their two small children unbuckled from
> safety seats before their 2004 CR-V went up in flames.
>
> A Georgia man coming home from a flea market stopped when he noticed
> smoke, tried to open his hood and "heard an explosion and the front
> end just burst into flames," according to records Honda supplied to
> NHTSA.
>
> All had recently had their oil changed for the first time. Honda
> recently warned its technicians about the need to be careful replacing
> oil filters in a regular newsletter mailed out to all 1,008 U.S.
> dealer service shops, Boyd said.
>
> Now the company is drafting a letter to the dealerships themselves, as
> well as preparing an article for a newsletter sent periodically to
> independent repair shops such as Jiffy Lube and Pep Boys. Honda also
> plans to change the language on the oil filter itself and its
> packaging, warning of the dangers of improper installation.
>
> There are no plans to send warnings to customers who might change the
> oil themselves, Boyd said.
>
> The problem is believed to happen one of two ways: The O-ring gasket
> on the old oil filter sometimes sticks to the crankcase, and if the
> new filter is installed over it, oil can leak around it. Or, if the
> gasket on the new filter isn't lubricated properly, it might set
> incorrectly and allow oil to leak around it. Then it can spray onto
> the hot manifold and burn.
>
> Kay C. Brittain of Jacksonville, Fla., was driving to work from her
> first 5,000-mile oil change when she noticed black smoke in her
> rearview mirror. She pulled onto the median to turn and go back to the
> dealership, but a passing motorist shouted that her 2004 CR-V was on
> fire.
>
> A week later, the elderly parents of one of Brittain's co-workers
> avoided injury when their 2003 CR-V burst into flames.
>
> Brittain, 56, who learned from Web site chat groups of other such
> incidents around the country, said she had no problems with the 2002
> CR-V she drove for two years before trading it in for the new model.
> Now that she has gotten her dealer to replace the one that burned with
> another 2004 CR-V, she has lost her peace of mind.
>
> "It just scares me. Here I'm sitting with a brand new car, and come
> 5,000 miles I'm going to have to go through it again," she said. "I
> don't want this to happen to somebody else. If there is a problem, I
> think Honda should acknowledge it and at least check this out and not
> write it off.
>
> "I'm just afraid something bad's going to happen. I just want them to
> take it seriously."

That is not at all what Honda say is happening. The old filter gasket was
not removed, consequently a good seal is not achieved with the new filter.
The oil starts blasting past the gasket out the edges of the filter,
spraying onto the exhaust system and catching fire. We're not talking about
a little drip here. Oil pressure is measured in pounds. It can pump out
the whole load of oil in a very short time.

Checking your oil level won't prevent this. All the oil will blow out
almost all at once. Checking the filter after an oil change might, if you
know what to look for.

There is no recall because it is purely and simply incompetent maintenance.

On 7/16/04 9:31 PM, in article 0OWdnY1ak7zlEmXdRVn-uQ@comcast.com, "Hai
Pham" <haipham@yahoo.com> wrote:

> It seems all/most the cars were on fire after the first oil changes. Is it
> due to the stuff Honda put in the new car mixed with oil to lubricate the
> engine. The oil mixed with this stuff leaks when the first oil change was
> done carelessly and the mix caught on fire ?
>
> Hai Pham
> "Andre" <ofc2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4e8c5280.0407150756.10c2efe2@posting.google.c om...
>> Below is a Washington post story I took from the Web just now, I read
>> a similar report on my local paper, TV carried similar stories. Again
>> as I said I may be overreacting. I plan to watch my oil level
>> closely, and I plan to inspect the oil filter following changes, Andre
>>
>> "Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:<e%ZIc.919708$Ar.409682@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com>...
>>> "Andre" <ofc2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4e8c5280.0407130704.626ae05@posting.google.co m...
>>>> I called Honda 800 999-1009 after reading reports of CRVs burning and
>>>> exploding;
>>>
>>> Exploding now, are they?
>>>
>>> Please post where you read this.
>>
>> 27 Fires Linked To Oil Changes In Honda CR-V
>>
>> By Greg Schneider
>> Washington Post Staff Writer
>> Friday, July 9, 2004; Page A01
>>
>>
>> At least 27 Honda CR-V sport-utility vehicles from the 2003 and 2004
>> model years burst into flames shortly after getting their first oil
>> changes, according to records provided to the federal government by
>> the manufacturer.
>>
>>
>>
>> While no injuries were reported, many of the vehicles were destroyed,
>> usually with 10,000 miles or fewer on their odometers.
>>
>> The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration investigated
>> the situation and concluded July 1 that the cases were the fault of
>> dealerships or others who improperly installed oil filters. The agency
>> agreed with American Honda Motor Co. that oil from the filters most
>> likely leaked onto the vehicles' hot exhaust systems, quickly igniting
>> -- in some cases as the owners drove the small SUVs home from being
>> serviced.
>>
>> "We consulted with Honda. Honda concluded it was a technician's error,
>> and they have taken steps to make sure service technicians who work on
>> this vehicle understand that they need to be particularly diligent
>> when they replace the oil filter," NHTSA spokesman Rae Tyson said.
>>
>> But auto safety advocates say they're dismayed that the agency didn't
>> take a stronger stand. "Relatively new cars catching on fire? Running
>> the risk of injuring their occupants? It's a very unusual and a very
>> dangerous situation," said Sally Greenberg of Consumers Union,
>> publisher of Consumer Reports. The fact that a routine oil change
>> could have such catastrophic results suggests "a dire and a dangerous
>> situation that both the automaker and the auto safety agency should
>> have looked much more closely at," she said.
>>
>> Honda, whose products are consistently rated among the safest
>> vehicles, doesn't know why the fires are happening in only the two
>> most recent CR-V models, spokesman Andy Boyd said. "That's the part
>> we're still investigating. Honestly, that's something we're still
>> trying to understand," he said, adding that there have been no major
>> design changes.
>>
>> While Boyd said the problem is "absolutely not a design defect," he
>> said the CR-V's engine is configured "such that there is a higher
>> likelihood of oil spraying onto the manifold than . . . on other
>> vehicles." Honda has no plan to recall the vehicles and install a
>> barrier to block the oil from hitting the hot exhaust manifold, he
>> said.
>>
>> "At this stage I don't believe we think a recall is warranted," Boyd
>> said "We think with a little more communication and education with the
>> dealers, the problem can be eliminated."
>>
>> About 140,000 CR-Vs were sold in the United States in 2003. Honda said
>> 22 of them caught fire from the apparent oil filter problem. So far
>> this year, five owners of 2004 CR-Vs have reported such fires to
>> NHTSA.
>>
>> NHTSA's records relate the stories of drivers whose vehicles caught
>> fire. Their names were blacked out. A woman driving on Braddock Road
>> in Northern Virginia last January noticed smoke coming from under her
>> 2003 CR-V. A passerby pulled up and told her it was on fire, so she
>> swerved onto the shoulder, the electrical system shorted out and all
>> the doors locked. She got out without injury.
>>
>> A North Carolina family driving to church one Sunday in May noticed
>> smoke and had to rush to get their two small children unbuckled from
>> safety seats before their 2004 CR-V went up in flames.
>>
>> A Georgia man coming home from a flea market stopped when he noticed
>> smoke, tried to open his hood and "heard an explosion and the front
>> end just burst into flames," according to records Honda supplied to
>> NHTSA.
>>
>> All had recently had their oil changed for the first time. Honda
>> recently warned its technicians about the need to be careful replacing
>> oil filters in a regular newsletter mailed out to all 1,008 U.S.
>> dealer service shops, Boyd said.
>>
>> Now the company is drafting a letter to the dealerships themselves, as
>> well as preparing an article for a newsletter sent periodically to
>> independent repair shops such as Jiffy Lube and Pep Boys. Honda also
>> plans to change the language on the oil filter itself and its
>> packaging, warning of the dangers of improper installation.
>>
>> There are no plans to send warnings to customers who might change the
>> oil themselves, Boyd said.
>>
>> The problem is believed to happen one of two ways: The O-ring gasket
>> on the old oil filter sometimes sticks to the crankcase, and if the
>> new filter is installed over it, oil can leak around it. Or, if the
>> gasket on the new filter isn't lubricated properly, it might set
>> incorrectly and allow oil to leak around it. Then it can spray onto
>> the hot manifold and burn.
>>
>> Kay C. Brittain of Jacksonville, Fla., was driving to work from her
>> first 5,000-mile oil change when she noticed black smoke in her
>> rearview mirror. She pulled onto the median to turn and go back to the
>> dealership, but a passing motorist shouted that her 2004 CR-V was on
>> fire.
>>
>> A week later, the elderly parents of one of Brittain's co-workers
>> avoided injury when their 2003 CR-V burst into flames.
>>
>> Brittain, 56, who learned from Web site chat groups of other such
>> incidents around the country, said she had no problems with the 2002
>> CR-V she drove for two years before trading it in for the new model.
>> Now that she has gotten her dealer to replace the one that burned with
>> another 2004 CR-V, she has lost her peace of mind.
>>
>> "It just scares me. Here I'm sitting with a brand new car, and come
>> 5,000 miles I'm going to have to go through it again," she said. "I
>> don't want this to happen to somebody else. If there is a problem, I
>> think Honda should acknowledge it and at least check this out and not
>> write it off.
>>
>> "I'm just afraid something bad's going to happen. I just want them to
>> take it seriously."
>
>

anyone know how to do an oil change?? when you pull the filter off
you are supposed to wipe the block with a rag where the filter goes
on. standard practice forever. it keeps stupid stuff like this from
happening. This problem is simply the fault of lazy techs.!!
Chip

"Chip Stein" <chip@chipanddebby.com> wrote
> anyone know how to do an oil change?? when you pull the filter off
> you are supposed to wipe the block with a rag where the filter goes
> on. standard practice forever. it keeps stupid stuff like this from
> happening. This problem is simply the fault of lazy techs.!!

I put at least some of the blame on dealers overworking and underpaying their
techs, such that they rush, are tired, and so commit the equivalent of
malpractice.

In article <XOiKc.6593$Qu5.3611@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink. net>,
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I put at least some of the blame on dealers overworking and underpaying their
> techs, such that they rush, are tired, and so commit the equivalent of
> malpractice.

The oil change guy is frequently an entry level job anyway, and not a
real Honda-trained technician at all. He might aspire to that, but he
starts out paying his dues with oil changes.

"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<XOiKc.6593$Qu5.3611@newsread2.news.pas.earth link.net>...
> "Chip Stein" <chip@chipanddebby.com> wrote
> > anyone know how to do an oil change?? when you pull the filter off
> > you are supposed to wipe the block with a rag where the filter goes
> > on. standard practice forever. it keeps stupid stuff like this from
> > happening. This problem is simply the fault of lazy techs.!!
>
> I put at least some of the blame on dealers overworking and underpaying their
> techs, such that they rush, are tired, and so commit the equivalent of
> malpractice.

doesn't matter, the tech should take pride in his or her work
either way. if they can't do that then they need to get out of the
business!
Chip

"Chip Stein" <chip@chipanddebby.com> wrote
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote
> > "Chip Stein" <chip@chipanddebby.com> wrote
> > > anyone know how to do an oil change?? when you pull the filter off
> > > you are supposed to wipe the block with a rag where the filter goes
> > > on. standard practice forever. it keeps stupid stuff like this from
> > > happening. This problem is simply the fault of lazy techs.!!
> >
> > I put at least some of the blame on dealers overworking and underpaying
their
> > techs, such that they rush, are tired, and so commit the equivalent of
> > malpractice.
>
> doesn't matter, the tech should take pride in his or her work
> either way. if they can't do that then they need to get out of the
> business!

This is a nice sentiment but I don't think it's practical, particularly at
dealer shops.

The more repairs a tech cranks out, the more valued he is by the dealer. If a
comeback results and is disguisable so as to make more money for the
blood-sucking dealerships, the the tech's bosses don't care. In fact, they might
even encourage slipshod repairs that aren't obviously slipshod, so as to bring
in more business.

Same thing is happening with MDs: They're forced to see more patients to the
detriment of the care they give, IMO.

Lawyers have always been corrupt, so no need to point out the similarities
there.

Just my opinion.