Honda Car Forum

Sorry, but I couldn't help it. I'm a recovering pyromaniac and I
decided to add some extra fuel to the never ending Dexcool fire.

I bought into the Dexcool hype back in about '98, at which time I
converted my '88 Acura Legend to Dexcool. The waterpump went bad on
the Acura in less than 20K miles (a genuine Acura part). I decided
that this *might* have been a fluke and kept the Dexcool, partly
because I didn't want to bother with the massive flush routine
necessary to convert back. I simply changed the pump and topped off
the Dexcool.

Well, the Acura system proceeded to work flawlessly for another 50K
miles at which time I sold it in '02 with 185,000 miles. At that
point the Dexcool in the radiator still looked brand new and the metal
(that I could see) within the radiator was free of any corrosion.

In the meantime, I had converted my wife's Caravan to Dexcool in about
2000. I sold it yesterday with 127,000 miles after having the Dexcool
in it for over 4 years and about 65,000 miles. Again, through the
radiator fill neck, the Dexcool and the radiator look brand new.

All of the "official" releases I've read about Dexcool problems have
said that it is very, very important to maintain an absolute FULL
level in the radiator and plenty in the overflow bottle so that no air
gets into the system. I have always kept the system full.

Also note that, when I converted from the "green" to Dexcool, I went
through about 5 gallons of distilled water to thoroughly flush out the
old prior to adding any Dexcool, and I only use distilled water in the
50/50 Dexcool/water mix.

For the past three years, I've had Dexcool in my old '89 Ford beater
pickup. Again, the Dexcool is working perfectly.

My point? Nothing, other than to relate my experiences with the
stuff. I'm sure there have been issues - there are too many folks
that are having problems, especially with GM vehicles and head gaskets
/ intake manifold gaskets. But I'm not necessarily convinced that
Dexcool was the cause in all of the cases. I bet "gooey Dexcool" was
the result of a head-gasket leak, not the other way around.

Let the flames begin. I'm standing back with marshmallows.

Keith

I killed 3 Integra water pumps with green Prestone in 1991 or
thereabouts. One failed in a mere 6 weeks. Certain death. Isn't it
interesting that Prestone has never admitted the problem. Can you say
"class action."

On the other hand, I changed my 1996 I30t to Dexcool at 37,000 miles.
Pump seal failed at 93,000. Not an outstanding life, and not what I
hoped for, but not terrible. Suffice to say that I do not believe
that Dexcool will "extend" pump life, although this is Texaco's
position.

Never the less, I would not use anything other than genuine Honda
coolant in a Honda product. Partially because I learned from my
Integra experience just how easy it is to screw up a Honda pump. It
isn't worth a few extra bucks to go experimenting.

JM

I know this has been beaten to death in here, but paying over $10 for a
diluted 50/50 mix of Honda coolant at the dealership is absolutely absurd.
Of course my thoughts may change when my car breaks down due to Dex-Cool.

CaptainKrunch


"JM" <jmattis@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:de3b9c1b.0407111134.3d0d64b8@posting.google.c om...
> I killed 3 Integra water pumps with green Prestone in 1991 or
> thereabouts. One failed in a mere 6 weeks. Certain death. Isn't it
> interesting that Prestone has never admitted the problem. Can you say
> "class action."
>
> On the other hand, I changed my 1996 I30t to Dexcool at 37,000 miles.
> Pump seal failed at 93,000. Not an outstanding life, and not what I
> hoped for, but not terrible. Suffice to say that I do not believe
> that Dexcool will "extend" pump life, although this is Texaco's
> position.
>
> Never the less, I would not use anything other than genuine Honda
> coolant in a Honda product. Partially because I learned from my
> Integra experience just how easy it is to screw up a Honda pump. It
> isn't worth a few extra bucks to go experimenting.
>
> JM

At one point my (purchased new) 91 Civic's water pump failed prematurely after
something less than 40k miles and a couple of years. I suspect the independent
shop that had done the last timing belt/water pump replacement used non-OEM
coolant. But I know I had replaced the coolant with green Prestone in the past,
so I might be the one to blame.

The car is now 1.75 years into a Havoline Dex changeover (this followed a very
thorough flush of the cooling system). I changed the thermostat a few months ago
and the Dexcool looked very clean, though that may mean nothing.

I plan to change the Dex in a few months, following the two year rule, despite
the advertisements on the Dex saying it will last longer. Why am I not heeding
the advertisements? Because of (1) all the suspicion here over non-OEM coolant;
(2) the lack of data on Dexcool for Hondas; and (3) my own experience with
non-OEM coolant.

When there's more positive data for Dex in Honda engines, I might reduce the
coolant changeout frequency.

Despite this little radiator coolant experiment, I do not plan on doing a
similar one with synthetic oil in my car's engine.

Caroline
(Pass the marshmallows.)

Keith G. Vickers <kgvickers 'at' charter 'dot' net> wrote in message news:<jgh2f01eono148q32g0mgeee2ctoa4gbi7@4ax.com>. ..

> I bought into the Dexcool hype back in about '98, at which time I
> converted my '88 Acura Legend to Dexcool. The waterpump went bad on
> the Acura in less than 20K miles (a genuine Acura part). I decided
> that this *might* have been a fluke and kept the Dexcool, partly
> because I didn't want to bother with the massive flush routine
> necessary to convert back. I simply changed the pump and topped off
> the Dexcool.
>
> Well, the Acura system proceeded to work flawlessly for another 50K
> miles at which time I sold it in '02 with 185,000 miles. At that
> point the Dexcool in the radiator still looked brand new and the metal
> (that I could see) within the radiator was free of any corrosion.
>
> In the meantime, I had converted my wife's Caravan to Dexcool in about
> 2000. I sold it yesterday with 127,000 miles after having the Dexcool
> in it for over 4 years and about 65,000 miles. Again, through the
> radiator fill neck, the Dexcool and the radiator look brand new.
>
> All of the "official" releases I've read about Dexcool problems have
> said that it is very, very important to maintain an absolute FULL
> level in the radiator and plenty in the overflow bottle so that no air
> gets into the system. I have always kept the system full.
>
> Also note that, when I converted from the "green" to Dexcool, I went
> through about 5 gallons of distilled water to thoroughly flush out the
> old prior to adding any Dexcool, and I only use distilled water in the
> 50/50 Dexcool/water mix.
>
> For the past three years, I've had Dexcool in my old '89 Ford beater
> pickup. Again, the Dexcool is working perfectly.
>
> My point? Nothing, other than to relate my experiences with the
> stuff. I'm sure there have been issues - there are too many folks
> that are having problems, especially with GM vehicles and head gaskets
> / intake manifold gaskets. But I'm not necessarily convinced that
> Dexcool was the cause in all of the cases. I bet "gooey Dexcool" was
> the result of a head-gasket leak, not the other way around.

I've run Dex-cool in Toyotas as old as 1986 and had a problem only
with the very first use. The cooling system had been running green
Zerex, so I cleaned it with oxalic acid, but apparently it didn't
remove all the deposits because several weeks after the switch to
Dex-cool, the overflow tank looked of pea soup. But after a second
oxalic acid flush, the coolant stayed orange for 5 years.

I've heard that Prestone's version of Dex-cool is kinder to some
metals than GM's/Texaco's, is, especially to soldered.

R. Anton Rave wrote:

> I've run Dex-cool in Toyotas as old as 1986 and had a problem only
> with the very first use. The cooling system had been running green
> Zerex, so I cleaned it with oxalic acid, but apparently it didn't
> remove all the deposits because several weeks after the switch to
> Dex-cool, the overflow tank looked of pea soup. But after a second
> oxalic acid flush, the coolant stayed orange for 5 years.

I don't know about whether I would try to extend the coolant drain
period. I thought the big deal with Dex-Cool is that its "mojo"
comes from being installed in a brand new cooling system. The
corrosion inhibitors supposedly form a protective coating.

I had Dex-Cool in several cars, and none had any coolant related
problems. For one - I mixed in Dex-Cool after I'd only used green
Honda coolant in an emergency. The rad did crack at the top, but
that wasn't coolant related (it was also at 130K miles).

> I've heard that Prestone's version of Dex-cool is kinder to some
> metals than GM's/Texaco's, is, especially to soldered.

It hasn't been around that long to know. However - there is the
chance that there wasn't any reformulation - just that they got the
GM approval and license.

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:53:02 -0700, "CaptainKrunch"
<nobody@nothing.com> wrote:

>I know this has been beaten to death in here, but paying over $10 for a
>diluted 50/50 mix of Honda coolant at the dealership is absolutely absurd.
>Of course my thoughts may change when my car breaks down due to Dex-Cool.
>
>CaptainKrunch

It seems inexpensive compared to the price of a new water pump,
doesn't it?

>"JM" <jmattis@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:de3b9c1b.0407111134.3d0d64b8@posting.google. com...
>> I killed 3 Integra water pumps with green Prestone in 1991 or
>> thereabouts. One failed in a mere 6 weeks. Certain death. Isn't it
>> interesting that Prestone has never admitted the problem. Can you say
>> "class action."
>>
>> On the other hand, I changed my 1996 I30t to Dexcool at 37,000 miles.
>> Pump seal failed at 93,000. Not an outstanding life, and not what I
>> hoped for, but not terrible. Suffice to say that I do not believe
>> that Dexcool will "extend" pump life, although this is Texaco's
>> position.
>>
>> Never the less, I would not use anything other than genuine Honda
>> coolant in a Honda product. Partially because I learned from my
>> Integra experience just how easy it is to screw up a Honda pump. It
>> isn't worth a few extra bucks to go experimenting.
>>
>> JM
>

Ron

yes it is certainly cheaper than a new water pump but it isn't a choice
between running Honda coolant or buying a new water pump. If it were that
would be a valid argument. I for one am not convinced that simply running
Dex-Cool and changing it every couple years is going to harm anything. So
the choice is between expensive Honda coolant and the more inexpensive
Dex-Cool.

Captainkrunch


"Milleron" <millerdot90@SPAMlessosu.edu> wrote in message
news:67i3f0pegdr53iuthmle0iitvuk9veqe8a@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:53:02 -0700, "CaptainKrunch"
> <nobody@nothing.com> wrote:
>
> >I know this has been beaten to death in here, but paying over $10 for a
> >diluted 50/50 mix of Honda coolant at the dealership is absolutely
absurd.
> >Of course my thoughts may change when my car breaks down due to Dex-Cool.
> >
> >CaptainKrunch
>
> It seems inexpensive compared to the price of a new water pump,
> doesn't it?
>
> >"JM" <jmattis@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> >news:de3b9c1b.0407111134.3d0d64b8@posting.google. com...
> >> I killed 3 Integra water pumps with green Prestone in 1991 or
> >> thereabouts. One failed in a mere 6 weeks. Certain death. Isn't it
> >> interesting that Prestone has never admitted the problem. Can you say
> >> "class action."
> >>
> >> On the other hand, I changed my 1996 I30t to Dexcool at 37,000 miles.
> >> Pump seal failed at 93,000. Not an outstanding life, and not what I
> >> hoped for, but not terrible. Suffice to say that I do not believe
> >> that Dexcool will "extend" pump life, although this is Texaco's
> >> position.
> >>
> >> Never the less, I would not use anything other than genuine Honda
> >> coolant in a Honda product. Partially because I learned from my
> >> Integra experience just how easy it is to screw up a Honda pump. It
> >> isn't worth a few extra bucks to go experimenting.
> >>
> >> JM
> >
>
> Ron

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 08:52:30 -0500, Keith G. Vickers <kgvickers 'at'
charter 'dot' net> wrote:

>Sorry, but I couldn't help it. I'm a recovering pyromaniac and I
>decided to add some extra fuel to the never ending Dexcool fire.
>
>I bought into the Dexcool hype back in about '98, at which time I
>converted my '88 Acura Legend to Dexcool. The waterpump went bad on
>the Acura in less than 20K miles (a genuine Acura part). I decided
>that this *might* have been a fluke and kept the Dexcool, partly
>because I didn't want to bother with the massive flush routine
>necessary to convert back. I simply changed the pump and topped off
>the Dexcool.
>
>Well, the Acura system proceeded to work flawlessly for another 50K
>miles at which time I sold it in '02 with 185,000 miles. At that
>point the Dexcool in the radiator still looked brand new and the metal
>(that I could see) within the radiator was free of any corrosion.

Dexcool is said to be free of all inorganic salts so according to Honda's
recommendations, it does seem to conform.

>In the meantime, I had converted my wife's Caravan to Dexcool in about
>2000. I sold it yesterday with 127,000 miles after having the Dexcool
>in it for over 4 years and about 65,000 miles. Again, through the
>radiator fill neck, the Dexcool and the radiator look brand new.
>
>All of the "official" releases I've read about Dexcool problems have
>said that it is very, very important to maintain an absolute FULL
>level in the radiator and plenty in the overflow bottle so that no air
>gets into the system. I have always kept the system full.

I don't see the relevance of "plenty" in the reservoir - there's a max and
a min mark which just have to be observed under the appropriate conditions.
You do have an interesting problem there though: how to prevent the ingress
of air/oxygen in a system where the level is cycling up and down, i.e.
sucking air, with every hot/cold cycle.

>Also note that, when I converted from the "green" to Dexcool, I went
>through about 5 gallons of distilled water to thoroughly flush out the
>old prior to adding any Dexcool, and I only use distilled water in the
>50/50 Dexcool/water mix.

As you noted above, there is "bother" with the "massive flush routine" -
I'd rather just pay the $12. or so for the Honda coolant which I know
works.

>For the past three years, I've had Dexcool in my old '89 Ford beater
>pickup. Again, the Dexcool is working perfectly.
>
>My point? Nothing, other than to relate my experiences with the
>stuff. I'm sure there have been issues - there are too many folks
>that are having problems, especially with GM vehicles and head gaskets
>/ intake manifold gaskets. But I'm not necessarily convinced that
>Dexcool was the cause in all of the cases. I bet "gooey Dexcool" was
>the result of a head-gasket leak, not the other way around.

GM's position is that the sludge is due to air pockets in the cooling
system from failing to maintain the coolant level or not getting all the
air out during a drain/refill. There have certainly been some really daft
cooling systems designed... notably VW's pressurized reservoirs which used
to continually leak. Why a mfr would employ a coolant which degrades in
contact with "pockets of air" in a system which is not designed to
self-purge the air is a umm, mystery.

>Let the flames begin. I'm standing back with marshmallows.

As a recovering pyromaniac you ought to know that marshamallows are no
defence... and in fact should be quite familiar with the obligatory nomex
underpants.;-)

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

JM wrote:
> I killed 3 Integra water pumps with green Prestone in 1991 or
> thereabouts. One failed in a mere 6 weeks. Certain death. Isn't it
> interesting that Prestone has never admitted the problem. Can you say
> "class action."

just curious... were they all OEM honda pumps? or aftermarket? or rebuilts?
>
> On the other hand, I changed my 1996 I30t to Dexcool at 37,000 miles.
> Pump seal failed at 93,000. Not an outstanding life, and not what I
> hoped for, but not terrible. Suffice to say that I do not believe
> that Dexcool will "extend" pump life, although this is Texaco's
> position.

i have never used the green stuff in any of my japanese vehicles. no
probs with the orange stuff, everything looks nice and shiny inside.
>
> Never the less, I would not use anything other than genuine Honda
> coolant in a Honda product. Partially because I learned from my
> Integra experience just how easy it is to screw up a Honda pump. It
> isn't worth a few extra bucks to go experimenting.

especially if the specs call for silicate and phosphate free coolant
>
> JM