Honda Car Forum

CaptainKrunch wrote:

> I know this has been beaten to death in here, but paying over $10 for a
> diluted 50/50 mix of Honda coolant at the dealership is absolutely absurd.
> Of course my thoughts may change when my car breaks down due to Dex-Cool.

thats what i use... mixed 50/50 with distilled water, and changed every
3 years. everything still looks new, and the old coolant i drained was
clean.

CaptainKrunch wrote:

> yes it is certainly cheaper than a new water pump but it isn't a choice
> between running Honda coolant or buying a new water pump. If it were that
> would be a valid argument. I for one am not convinced that simply running
> Dex-Cool and changing it every couple years is going to harm anything. So
> the choice is between expensive Honda coolant and the more inexpensive
> Dex-Cool.

i think we can all agree that the "green stuff" is a no-no.

Caroline wrote:

> At one point my (purchased new) 91 Civic's water pump failed prematurely after
> something less than 40k miles and a couple of years. I suspect the independent
> shop that had done the last timing belt/water pump replacement used non-OEM
> coolant. But I know I had replaced the coolant with green Prestone in the past,
> so I might be the one to blame.

mebbe. were they asking for special coolant back then?
>
> The car is now 1.75 years into a Havoline Dex changeover (this followed a very
> thorough flush of the cooling system). I changed the thermostat a few months ago
> and the Dexcool looked very clean, though that may mean nothing.

it means its not picking anything up... which means it isnt leaving
anything behind, like scaling or corrosion. thats a good thing.
>
> I plan to change the Dex in a few months, following the two year rule, despite
> the advertisements on the Dex saying it will last longer. Why am I not heeding
> the advertisements? Because of (1) all the suspicion here over non-OEM coolant;
> (2) the lack of data on Dexcool for Hondas; and (3) my own experience with
> non-OEM coolant.

you could probably go 3, but whatever floats your boat. i dont buy the
100k claims myself either.
>
> When there's more positive data for Dex in Honda engines, I might reduce the
> coolant changeout frequency.
>
> Despite this little radiator coolant experiment, I do not plan on doing a
> similar one with synthetic oil in my car's engine.

so you arent going to go synth? or are?
>
> Caroline
> (Pass the marshmallows.)
>
>

CaptainKrunch wrote:
> I know this has been beaten to death in here, but paying over $10 for a
> diluted 50/50 mix of Honda coolant at the dealership is absolutely absurd.
> Of course my thoughts may change when my car breaks down due to Dex-Cool.
>
> CaptainKrunch

I assume this is a philosophical issue for you, because that $10/per for
Honda coolant is peanuts in terms of the total cost of ownership of a
car, even if you changed it every year. I'm probably relatively
'poorer' than most in this group and even I don't give s second thought
to buying that stuff. It certainly isn't going to affect my standard of
living much... nor probably yours. :-)

>
>
> "JM" <jmattis@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:de3b9c1b.0407111134.3d0d64b8@posting.google.c om...
>

>>On the other hand, I changed my 1996 I30t to Dexcool at 37,000 miles.
>>
>>Never the less, I would not use anything other than genuine Honda
>>coolant in a Honda product. Partially because I learned from my
>>Integra experience just how easy it is to screw up a Honda pump. It
>>isn't worth a few extra bucks to go experimenting.

--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 06:46:24 GMT, SoCalMike
<mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>JM wrote:
>> I killed 3 Integra water pumps with green Prestone in 1991 or
>> thereabouts. One failed in a mere 6 weeks. Certain death. Isn't it
>> interesting that Prestone has never admitted the problem. Can you say
>> "class action."
>
>just curious... were they all OEM honda pumps? or aftermarket? or rebuilts?
>>
>> On the other hand, I changed my 1996 I30t to Dexcool at 37,000 miles.
>> Pump seal failed at 93,000. Not an outstanding life, and not what I
>> hoped for, but not terrible. Suffice to say that I do not believe
>> that Dexcool will "extend" pump life, although this is Texaco's
>> position.
>
>i have never used the green stuff in any of my japanese vehicles. no
>probs with the orange stuff, everything looks nice and shiny inside.

Is it not true that the color of the coolant does NOT guarantee the
composition of the product? Aren't there examples out there of red or
orange coolants that are chemical equivalents of green Prestone? (I
thought I remembered reading somewhere that this was the case.)

snip



Ron

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:42:23 -0400, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

>>Also note that, when I converted from the "green" to Dexcool, I went
>>through about 5 gallons of distilled water to thoroughly flush out the
>>old prior to adding any Dexcool, and I only use distilled water in the
>>50/50 Dexcool/water mix.
>
>As you noted above, there is "bother" with the "massive flush routine" -
>I'd rather just pay the $12. or so for the Honda coolant which I know
>works.

Question: would switching from Honda coolant (as opposed to the
"green stuff") to Dexcool require the "massive flush routine?"


Ron

"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> Caroline wrote:
>
> > At one point my (purchased new) 91 Civic's water pump failed prematurely
after
> > something less than 40k miles and a couple of years. I suspect the
independent
> > shop that had done the last timing belt/water pump replacement used non-OEM
> > coolant. But I know I had replaced the coolant with green Prestone in the
past,
> > so I might be the one to blame.
>
> mebbe. were they asking for special coolant back then?

Do you mean does the 91 Civic's owner's manual say to use OEM coolant?

The manual has a paragraph giving a layperson's description of the aluminum
engine and its cooling chemistry needs. Then it says, "[U]se only a Honda
**RECOMMENDED** anti-freeze coolant. CHECK WITH YOUR AUTHORIZED HONDA DEALER."

(The caps and emphasis are what's in the manual.)

Years ago I read the green Prestone labeling. It said something re-assuring (to
me at the time, in my naive "youth") about its being okay for my car.

Now, with more experience, I won't ever again put green Prestone in my Civic.

> > The car is now 1.75 years into a Havoline Dex changeover (this followed a
very
> > thorough flush of the cooling system). I changed the thermostat a few months
ago
> > and the Dexcool looked very clean, though that may mean nothing.
>
> it means its not picking anything up... which means it isnt leaving
> anything behind, like scaling or corrosion. thats a good thing.

I believe you. I just don't have enough experience (after three or four drain
and fills in my car's life) to judge well. My vague recollection is, yes, the
green Prestone I drained twice or so in the car's life did not look new. Had
little bits of junk in it. The couple of cups of orange Dex I drained a few
months ago for the thermostat replacement looked, well, new.

> > I plan to change the Dex in a few months, following the two year rule,
despite
> > the advertisements on the Dex saying it will last longer. Why am I not
heeding
> > the advertisements? Because of (1) all the suspicion here over non-OEM
coolant;
> > (2) the lack of data on Dexcool for Hondas; and (3) my own experience with
> > non-OEM coolant.
>
> you could probably go 3, but whatever floats your boat. i dont buy the
> 100k claims myself either.

I'm thinking you're right, but I am sweating a bit the 2001 premature water pump
failure, after 2 years and only 18k miles, with green Prestone and probably a
non-OEM pump.

Live and learn, though things are looking good after three years and 34k miles
on the latest (non-OEM?) water pump, 1/3 of its life on green Prestone, half on
the orange Dex, though again, I did a really thorough coolant flush 1.75 years
ago when I changed over.

> > When there's more positive data for Dex in Honda engines, I might reduce the
> > coolant changeout frequency.
> >
> > Despite this little radiator coolant experiment, I do not plan on doing a
> > similar one with synthetic oil in my car's engine.
>
> so you arent going to go synth? or are?

I am not putting synthetic oil into my (old) car. I buy the seal theory for now:
The various old engine seals in my car now well-impregnated with NON-synthetic
oil may fail when they come into regular contact with synthetic oil.

But if I had a new car, I would strongly consider synthetic oil, and I suspect
I'd be changing it no more than every 10k miles.

One more anecdote on this: A stroke of luck last year gave me an elderly
gentleman neighbor who is a serious classic car enthusiast. Last week he told me
one of his buddies does not change the synthetic oil in his car more often than
30k miles (and some time limit). My neighbor is trying this frequency on his
fairly new SUV. He has no concerns. The guy's pretty bright, cautious, and
fastidious in his garage and with his several cars, so I have stored this in my
anecdote database.

I'll keep an eye on how well his car is doing, too. ;-)

"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote
> Live and learn, though things are looking good after three years and 34k miles
> on the latest (non-OEM?) water pump, 1/3 of its life on green Prestone, half
on
> the orange Dex

*&^%$#

That should be 1/3 on green prestone, 2/3 on orange Dex, roughly.

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:10:02 GMT, Milleron <millerdot90@SPAMlessosu.edu>
wrote:

||On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:53:02 -0700, "CaptainKrunch"
||<nobody@nothing.com> wrote:
||
||>I know this has been beaten to death in here, but paying over $10 for a
||>diluted 50/50 mix of Honda coolant at the dealership is absolutely absurd.
||>Of course my thoughts may change when my car breaks down due to Dex-Cool.
||>
||>CaptainKrunch
||
||It seems inexpensive compared to the price of a new water pump,
||doesn't it?

Judging the quality of a coolant by the life of the water pump is not a valid
test. Water pumps do not fail because coolant attacks them. They fail because
belts are overtightened, they fail because something in the accessory pulleys
imparts a vibration, they fail because a bearing or seal had a factory defect,
they fail because grit in the coolant cuts the seal etc.
Corrosion of cooling system components is the issue, and then only in a
system that is imroperly maintained, or where the coolant is changed to one
incompatible with the metals it comes in contact with.
A water pump bearing/seal is an integrated unit that is impervious to all
commonly used automotive coolant chemicals. Mechanical damage during assembly
or accellerated wear due to environmental mechanical problems is the only thing
that will shorten the service life of a water pump.
Although an alien tractor beam has been known to bend the shafts occasionally.
Bit that's anoterh thread entirely
Texas Parts Guy

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:39:50 GMT, NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:10:02 GMT, Milleron <millerdot90@SPAMlessosu.edu>
>wrote:
>
>||On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:53:02 -0700, "CaptainKrunch"
>||<nobody@nothing.com> wrote:
>||
>||>I know this has been beaten to death in here, but paying over $10 for a
>||>diluted 50/50 mix of Honda coolant at the dealership is absolutely absurd.
>||>Of course my thoughts may change when my car breaks down due to Dex-Cool.
>||>
>||>CaptainKrunch
>||
>||It seems inexpensive compared to the price of a new water pump,
>||doesn't it?
>
>Judging the quality of a coolant by the life of the water pump is not a valid
>test. Water pumps do not fail because coolant attacks them.

Others here have had such experience(s).

> They fail because
>belts are overtightened, they fail because something in the accessory pulleys
>imparts a vibration, they fail because a bearing or seal had a factory defect,
>they fail because grit in the coolant cuts the seal etc.
> Corrosion of cooling system components is the issue, and then only in a
>system that is imroperly maintained, or where the coolant is changed to one
>incompatible with the metals it comes in contact with.

"Incompatible" is the operative word here.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??