Honda Car Forum

rpm that high is not considered 'lugging' the engine. Mine is only at 1500. Have you
tried any of the combustion chamber cleaner?

gmccx wrote:

> It's right at 2600-2700 rpm in 5th. So 45 is just a bit below
> that (duh). But that 45-50 ini 5th is the magic place where I can hear
> what I keep thinking is a bit of pinging... but any other gear at the
> same rpm doesn't produce that sound. That is the part that would tend
> to make me think it isn't a ping at all, unless shifting to 5th makes
> some ignition timeing change by default to favor mileage or such.

George Macdonald wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:29:28 -0400, gmccx <gmccx@notvalid.com> wrote:
>
>>Sean Dinh wrote:
>>
>>>It means that the car is traveling at 45 mph, and that you're trying to maintain
>>>constant speed at 45 mph. It should be ok in 5th.
>>>
>>>gmccx wrote:
>>>
>>>>4-5th shift Normal acceleration, 49 mph
>>>>4-5th shift Cruise from acceleration, 45 mph.
>>>>
>>Sounds reasonable, and I did pay attention to the rpm at 50 on the way
>>to work. It's right at 2600-2700 rpm in 5th. So 45 is just a bit below
>>that (duh). But that 45-50 ini 5th is the magic place where I can hear
>>what I keep thinking is a bit of pinging... but any other gear at the
>
> Although it's much less noticeable in lower gears, if you go up a hill in
> 3rd which might be easier done in 2nd, it does happen - IOW slight lugging
> is necessary to provoke it. I'm still suspicious that it *is* pinging,
> since it's so load dependent - my take: Honda made a cock-up of the
> ignition profile in the ECU. I'm going to try backing off the ignition
> timing a touch - it is slightly advanced of the middle mark. I also think
> oxygenated fuel is an aggravating factor here.

I did mess with the timing a while back and I think the finding was that
I couldn't really affect it much at all... but I *could* make it run
worse by retarding it too far.

The most puzzling part of the deal though is why I can ever hear
anything at all because I would think the anti-knock sensor (mounted on
the block) would 'hear' something long before I could hear it and adjust
accordingly (timing or such). Of course if I can't stop it with timing
perhaps the anti-knock sensor/control can't either.

And I still have this nagging suspicion that it all may have started
with a timing belt change long ago. But I didn't notice the ping and/or
associate with the belt until too long after the work was done to be
able to complain about it to the dealer.

(I altered the subject since I wandered this thread a bit off of the
orginal topic)

--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:03:30 -0400, gmccx <gmccx@notvalid.com> wrote:

>George Macdonald wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:29:28 -0400, gmccx <gmccx@notvalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Sean Dinh wrote:
>>>
>>>>It means that the car is traveling at 45 mph, and that you're trying to maintain
>>>>constant speed at 45 mph. It should be ok in 5th.
>>>>
>>>>gmccx wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>4-5th shift Normal acceleration, 49 mph
>>>>>4-5th shift Cruise from acceleration, 45 mph.
>>>>>
>>>Sounds reasonable, and I did pay attention to the rpm at 50 on the way
>>>to work. It's right at 2600-2700 rpm in 5th. So 45 is just a bit below
>>>that (duh). But that 45-50 ini 5th is the magic place where I can hear
>>>what I keep thinking is a bit of pinging... but any other gear at the
>>
>> Although it's much less noticeable in lower gears, if you go up a hill in
>> 3rd which might be easier done in 2nd, it does happen - IOW slight lugging
>> is necessary to provoke it. I'm still suspicious that it *is* pinging,
>> since it's so load dependent - my take: Honda made a cock-up of the
>> ignition profile in the ECU. I'm going to try backing off the ignition
>> timing a touch - it is slightly advanced of the middle mark. I also think
>> oxygenated fuel is an aggravating factor here.
>
>I did mess with the timing a while back and I think the finding was that
>I couldn't really affect it much at all... but I *could* make it run
>worse by retarding it too far.
>
>The most puzzling part of the deal though is why I can ever hear
>anything at all because I would think the anti-knock sensor (mounted on
>the block) would 'hear' something long before I could hear it and adjust
>accordingly (timing or such). Of course if I can't stop it with timing
>perhaps the anti-knock sensor/control can't either.

My Integra GS has no knock sensor so not sure how that impacts. I've tried
premium gas, different brands of gas and Chevron Techron Concentrate which
claims to clean valves and combustion chamber deposits as well as fuel
injectors but nothing made any difference so it's possible that timing
adjustments will be futile too. I'll report back when I get around to
it.<sigh>

>And I still have this nagging suspicion that it all may have started
>with a timing belt change long ago. But I didn't notice the ping and/or
>associate with the belt until too long after the work was done to be
>able to complain about it to the dealer.

Dunno if you already mentioned but have you checked your belt/pulley
alignment and tension?

>(I altered the subject since I wandered this thread a bit off of the
>orginal topic)

Sorry but I hate when people do that - it breaks all the threading in the
archives at Google.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:03:30 -0400, gmccx <gmccx@notvalid.com> wrote:
>
>
>>George Macdonald wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:29:28 -0400, gmccx <gmccx@notvalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sean Dinh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It means that the car is traveling at 45 mph, and that you're trying to maintain
>>>>>constant speed at 45 mph. It should be ok in 5th.
>>>>>
>>>>>gmccx wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>4-5th shift Normal acceleration, 49 mph
>>>>>>4-5th shift Cruise from acceleration, 45 mph.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sounds reasonable, and I did pay attention to the rpm at 50 on the way
>>>>to work. It's right at 2600-2700 rpm in 5th. So 45 is just a bit below
>>>>that (duh). But that 45-50 ini 5th is the magic place where I can hear
>>>>what I keep thinking is a bit of pinging... but any other gear at the
>>>
>>>Although it's much less noticeable in lower gears, if you go up a hill in
>>>3rd which might be easier done in 2nd, it does happen - IOW slight lugging
>>
>>I did mess with the timing a while back and I think the finding was that
>>
>>The most puzzling part of the deal though is why I can ever hear
>>anything at all because I would think the anti-knock sensor (mounted on
>>the block) would 'hear' something long before I could hear it and adjust
>>accordingly (timing or such). Of course if I can't stop it with timing
>>perhaps the anti-knock sensor/control can't either.
>
>
> My Integra GS has no knock sensor so not sure how that impacts. I've tried
>
> injectors but nothing made any difference so it's possible that timing
> adjustments will be futile too. I'll report back when I get around to
> it.<sigh>

I'll try not to miss you note about it.

>
>>And I still have this nagging suspicion that it all may have started
>>with a timing belt change long ago. But I didn't notice the ping and/or
>
> Dunno if you already mentioned but have you checked your belt/pulley
> alignment and tension?

No, I've not done anything. I'll have to pull the valve cover to see
anything and for quite a time I was content to just stay out of 5th
below 50 and not worry about it. But it still nags at me a bit. :-)

>
>
>>(I altered the subject since I wandered this thread a bit off of the
>
> Sorry but I hate when people do that - it breaks all the threading in the
> archives at Google.
>

Hmmm. I wasn't at all aware of that, probably because I've never read
groups on Google. I'll refrain from same in the future.

--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc

George Macdonald wrote:

> Sorry but I hate when people do that - it breaks all the threading in the
> archives at Google.
>

And if you hadn't mentioned it, I might have never known, because
Netscape/Moz still shows my message in the same thread...just with a
different subject.


--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc

George Macdonald wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:03:30 -0400, gmccx <gmccx@notvalid.com> wrote:
>
>
>>George Macdonald wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>Sounds reasonable, and I did pay attention to the rpm at 50 on the way
>>>>to work. It's right at 2600-2700 rpm in 5th. So 45 is just a bit below
>>>
>>>Although it's much less noticeable in lower gears, if you go up a hill in
>>>3rd which might be easier done in 2nd, it does happen - IOW slight lugging
>>>is necessary to provoke it. I'm still suspicious that it *is* pinging,
>>>since it's so load dependent - my take: Honda made a cock-up of the
>>
>>The most puzzling part of the deal though is why I can ever hear
>>anything at all because I would think the anti-knock sensor (mounted on
>>the block) would 'hear' something long before I could hear it and adjust
>
> My Integra GS has no knock sensor so not sure how that impacts. I've tried
> premium gas, different brands of gas and Chevron Techron Concentrate which

>
>>And I still have this nagging suspicion that it all may have started
>>with a timing belt change long ago. But I didn't notice the ping and/or
>
>
> Dunno if you already mentioned but have you checked your belt/pulley
> alignment and tension?
>
>

I didn't have much to do today so I pulled the valve cover to have a
look at the timing belt/alighment. Everything looks good to me, with
the little marks all lining up at TDC as per the service book. So
whatever I'm hearing isn't due to a TB installed wrong or such.

--

George

http://people.delphiforums.com/gmcc